RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Jeffrey on Thursday 26 November 15 13:34 GMT (UK)
-
This is a harder one than the others as there is only the engine.
However my father-in-law worked in the Middle East and we now know he worked on Wellingtons, Beaufighters (thanks to answers on my previous post) and we heard him mention Liberators.
Any ideas?
Judy
-
The engine is a single-row 9 cylinder radial so the aircraft is not a Liberator, the Consolidated design used twin-row, 14-cylinder Pratt & Whitney R-1830 "Twin Wasp" radials of 1,000 hp (750 kW).
The engine could be a Bristol Pegasus - this was used by early Wellingtons & the Bristol Bombay, a twin engine bomber/troop carrier which was used in the Middle East.
Michael.
-
"single-row 9 cylinder radial"
Why am I only seeing 8 cylinders?
Regards
Malky
-
Radial engines have an odd number of cylinders per row.
Regards, Michael.
-
Afraid, not all. Several 8 cylindered versions were made as well as 10 cylinder ones.
Regards
Malky
-
Yellow spots on front valve gear push rods.
Edit: With acknowledgements to Key Publishing Aviation forums 'The radial fires "around the clock". With an uneven number of cylinders in each row it will "fire and skip" and the order for a nine cylinder single row radial is 1-3-5-7-9-2-4-6-8 in two revolutions. A radial with an even number of cylinders in each row will not be able to "fire and skip".'
Michael.
-
I accept that you are correct. I changed the contrast in the original and found out it is not an 8 cylindered engine, although 8's and 10's were made.
Regards
Malky
-
Thank you Malky, I was intrigued by your reference to 8 & 10 cylinder single row radials and found the Germans made diesel versions; these must be two-stroke engines.
Going back to the original picture, the aircraft may well be a Wellington - the small portion of fuselage visible above the wing on the far right appears to have fabric covered stringers, there are horizontal lines (or is it my imagination).
Michael.
-
8's and 10's, American also.
Regards
Malky
-
My initial thought was that it was a Bristol Mercury engine on a Blenheim, but the height of the wing off the ground appears to be greater than a Blenheim's. So Pegasus on Wellington seems a good suggestion.
-
Thank you guys, you certainly know your planes.
This cj, I've taken over from Judy (with her permission). It's my Dad 2nd from the left of photo, and I'm pretty sure he trained on Wellingtons, so that fits. All 3 photos were probably taken around the same time in North Africa. They are the only pics of aircraft among hundreds of photos taken all over Egypt, Palestine, Syria & Lebanon.
I've had another look at the original & blown it up. Can't see any stringers.
Michael, your explanation about firing order of 9 cylinder radials is excellent, I knew they were mostly an odd no of cylinder for balance, but didn't know how they worked.
Malky, I didn't know there were a few even no. radials in service.
Thanks again, most grateful.
-
This post and the others on the identification of planes will make going to Duxford Imperial War Museum a whole new experience. Hopefully there will be some planes, like these we can look at.
We both appreciate the time and effort everyone has put in on these planes.
Judy
-
Duxford is a super museum, AFV's etc. too. Flying displays in summer.
-
Just for further info :-
http://www.passion-aviation.qc.ca/images/sandiego/engines/anzani_b.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzani_10-cylinder
Regards
Malky
-
Thank you for those two web sites Malky.
Judy
-
Re your other post, with a Wellington & Beaufighter, the Wellington photo (plane 1) appears to show the platform on which the airmen in this post's photo are sitting.
It's on the far left, below the Wellington's nose, so that should confirm that the aircraft in this post is also a Wellington.
Michael.
-
Just had a look.
Well spotted - thank you.
Judy :)
-
I agree it looks like a Peggy by scaling it from known lengths close by ,but it doesn't appear to be mounted and has just been unsheeted ready for installation from its platform . This job was done without a prop installed for obvious reasons . Looks like a glimpse of the engine mounting frame on the left maybe ? The jumble to the right appears to be a new un painted replacement wing section and possibly cowling or another aircraft altogether . Given that there is no wing root section visible (which would give a definitive answer )and mountings for Peggy's were very similar , I'd say that the crew was replacing a port engine and outer wing section of a Bristol Beaufighter as they were simply more numerous and saw most action (and dust) in this theatre .The height of the platform is nothing to go by because of the need for clearance to install the prop and there is nothing in this photo to guage the height of the platform unless the ground is clearly visible . This would give an indication of the size of prop and more clues .
My pad couldn't open the other photo so perhaps all the answers lie in there ! We have a Peggy at the museum plus other single and multi row radials but by far the prettiest is the BMW from a FW 190 .Small frontal area ,epicyclic gearbox , a real masterpiece in aircooled radials !
-
FAHR451 Thank you for all the information in your last post. Can you tell me which museum you are referring to in your post please.
Just to post information from his RAF official records which may confirm/help.
These are Exams, Course, Engines etc which he worked on or was proficient in.
1941 Pegasus
1941 Ex Reamses (?Remus) F Beds (this entry is very difficult to make out)
1942 C of S Cheetah Engines
1942 Pegasus, Merlin
1943 Pegasus Hercules
1944 Cheetah, Merlin
Any ideas what the second entry for 1941 could be?
Judy
-
Beaufighters were never fitted with the Pegasus engine, prototypes had the Taurus but this was not powerful enough so a change was made to Hercules or Merlin engines.
The aircraft in the photo has to be a Wellington, and I would suggest it is the starboard engine because the portion of wing on the right of the photo is thicker and more rounded than that on the left. Also, there appears to be no sign of a sling or crane holding up the engine so it may well be mounted to the engine bearers.
Michael.