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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: okkool on Saturday 28 November 15 05:08 GMT (UK)
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Hello
This is my first attempt at transcription. This will is 2 pages long and the first quarter of page one is this preamble. I am hoping that with a good transcription I will have enough points of comparison to complete the "meat" of the will. After a week of work this the transcription I have. Any help will be appreciated
Brian
In the Name of God Amen
I John Butter of Cheswardine in the countie of Salop yeoman being soro sisilish with sickucfious yett in profert mind and iminionisbbefsch -- this last will firoiring that the times of man's life for all thir best is sonorr Juiurcy much more intion this Lorbe friend is upon them upon theren and considerings that it is the __tie of all men, much more of Christian men to sell their housed in ----- -- ---- critfeiy yoe honre not more :Labing by the grace of God endoab ---- make my prare with the Lorde and all this worlds ----and or ordaine ------ last will and testament in ---- and f--- following J--p-innis ----- and bequeath my spirit soul e Allmightie God my Creator who yaroe ill --- trusting to boe saved by this suarrillo of his sonne my Lorde and Saviour and my bodie to the ground from where itt was jafon to be dorentlie lie interred att the discretion of my Executor's in hope of a ivyfull resurrection to eternal life And as for my worldly goods I here dispose of them as follows
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I, John Butter of Cheswardine in the county of Salop yeoman, being sore (blank) with sickness yet in perfect mind and memory, blessed be the Lord well knowing that the time of man's life at the best is uncertain and much more; when the Lord's hand is upon them, and considering it is the (blank) of all men, much more of Christian men to set their houses in (long series of blanks).... having by the grace of God's endeavours, make my peace with the Lord, and all the world, do constitute and ordain this to be my last will and testament in manner and form following: Imprimis I give and bequeath my spirit to Almighty God, the Creator who (gave it to me, trusting?) to be saved by the merits of His Son, my Lord and Saviour, and my body to the ground from whence it was taken, to be decently interred at the discretion of my executors, in hope of a joyful resurrection to eternal life; and as for my worldly goods, I then dispose of them as followeth: Item, I give.....
That's the best I can do without studying it for a while; some of the punctuation I have added to make it easier to read.
Hope it helps.
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A few suggestions for the blanks ...
being sore (blank) with sickness
being sore visited with sicknesse
considering it is the (blank) of all men
considering it is the dutie of all men
to set their houses in (long series of blanks)
to set their houses in Order before they goe hence and bee noe more
who (gave it to me, trusting?) to be
who gave itt mee trusting to bee
May I offer a tip? It’s easier to keep your place if your transcription keeps to the same line-breaks as the original. Also, it’s best to transcribe exactly what is written, without modernising spelling or adding punctuation, as that can sometimes lead to misinterpretation. You can always modernise the transcription later, if required. :)
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Thanks for filling in my blanks, Bookbox. And thank you for the tips. Keeping the lines the same is a good idea. I do know not to punctuate, I just added a couple of commas to help in comprehension, where I didn't feel it would affect the meaning. Regarding the spelling, you're probably right, but my typing fingers were being "too correct". ;D
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Firstly: A big thankyou pinefamily and Bookbox for corrections and transcription. And also for the great tips.
I have a few questions.
Is it normal to split words in these documents i.e. uncertain line 3 endeavours line 6?
In line 4 Lords and line 6 having: L and h look the same, how do I tell them apart? also on line 6: is that punctuation between bee noe more and having?
line 6 first word Order is capitalized, why?
One more: Is this length of preamble normal?
Brian
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another question:
on line 2 it was transcribed as "with sickness yett" there seems to be many more letters in the original text. What is the true word for sickness?
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Pleased we can help you. I'll answer the easiest question first. Yes, this sort of preamble was fairly normal, and was almost set to a certain formula. Although this one differs a little from most I have seen, the sense of it is the same.
As far as I can tell, there was no rhyme or reason why they split words, used capitals, or anything else. Spelling was certainly fairly fluid, and even though some people could write, it doesn't mean spelling was standard. I have seen the same word spelled differently in some documents.
Cheers,
Darren
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With the word sickness, the writer has spelled it "sicknesse", although he has used the symbol that looks like a cursive "f" that was normally used as a double "s" for the first "s", if that makes sense.
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Darren
ok, I can see the "sicknesse" but what is with the "iaus" at the end of it?
Brian
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Is it normal to split words in these documents i.e. uncertain line 3 endeavours line 6?
Yes. These documents are copies made by clerks and entered into the will registers as formal records of the probate court. Because it was important to maintain their integrity as true copies, the text was written as far up to the right hand edge as possible to prevent anyone adding anything at the end of the line. That is why there are so many word-splits. If a word couldn’t easily be split, or fell short of the end of the line, a series of ‘line-fillers’ would be added to carry the text to the end of the line and prevent interference.
In line 4 Lords and line 6 having: L and h look the same, how do I tell them apart?
The H (in this case it’s a capital letter) has a curved descender on the right, going down below the line and curving upwards again. It’s not easy to see here because there is interference from the line below.
also on line 6: is that punctuation between bee noe more and having?
Yes. The first letter of the following word is a capital H (see above).
ok, I can see the "sicknesse" but what is with the "iaus" at the end of it?
It is sicknesse and yett (the and was omitted from the transcription above).
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Thankyou Bookbox and Darren,
just the answers I needed. I see I will have to apply a lot more creative interpretations to my transcriptions.
I have no doubt I will have to pick your brains in the future, but your help has been invaluable.
Brian
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You're welcome. You might also want to have a look at the resources listed in the threads at the top of this board?
The alphabets shown on this link below are particularly useful for identifying individual letter-forms.
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/alphabets.html
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No problems, Brian. The first time you tackle one of these it is all gibberish; the second and third etc. become a lot easier. That is, until you strike "court hand", which is a different style of writing. I had one document in court hand, and in Latin!
Thanks for the more detailed explanation, Bookbox. And thank you for pointing out my omission of the word "and". A silly mistake. :-[
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The alphabets shown on this link below are particularly useful for identifying individual letter-forms.
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/alphabets.html
[/quote]
Thanks Bookbox I certainly will use this.
Brian
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Darren
It is to easy to miss something when seeing gibberish and gobbledygook. I do it all the time.
Brian
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Hello
I have been working on the transcription of the next section of the will. I have highlighted some sections I am not sure of or I know I got wrong. Can you check my work for me?
bequeath the tenure holding and possession of the house I nowe live in called ?
the Castle house with all the lande and commodies there unto belonging unto Ellen
my wife and Ffrancis my sonne and their assigned equally to bee devided between
them yealding and paying the your lie Rent forever live paired is asfor the tenure
holding and possession of the Lower house to Ellen my wife and Ffrancis my sonne
paying the rent formerly payd att the dereuse of Ellin my wife the whole possession of
bothe houses and Lands and Comodities thier unto belonging to Ffrancis my sonne; Item I
give and bequeath to John Preston my sonne in lawe our poor --- ground adjoyne
ing to Taynors side now in his possession and more lands to bee inclosed adjoin
ing to the said poores about the quantities of seaven -- which is my possession.
The said John Preston on his assignes prartably to hold during my my liafe paying
to Ellin my wife or Francis my sonne five shillings year life: Item I give and bequeath
Brian
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On the first line called is correct.
...lands and com(m)odities thereunto...
...my sonne or their assignes equally to bee devided betwixt
them yealding and paying the yearlie Rent formerlie paied As Alsoe the Tenure...
...paying the Rent formerly payd And att the decease of Ellin...
...both houses Lands and Com(m)odities thereunto belonging...
...my sonne in lawe one peece of ground adioyne
=ing to [Tagmore?] side...and more land to bee inclosed...
...to the said peeces about the quantitie of Seaven Acres...
...or his assignes peaceably to hold during my lease...
...or ffrancis my sonne two shillings yearlie...
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Well done HD86 :D
-Betwixt : I had to go to the grammar books to find the definition and usage of that one.
adverb = between betwixt = preposition
-ah!!! thereunto is one word
- I wonder if adioyneing and adjoineing are the same word
-I hadn't come across Tagmore in the various Shropshire texts and families but I will now look for it "or similar" now
- I don't know what I was thinking "poor" :-[ peece and acres: of course!!!
-so two shillings and not five: I get generous around Cristemasse
Thankyou so much.
I am getting better as I along. I am now halfway down page 1 of 2.
Brian
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Hi Brian,
adioyneing (as appears twice in this extract) = adjoining
If you have it elsewhere with an i instead of the y, then yes, same word.
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HD86
so the rule is J never appears in middle of a word, only the beginning, also y can and is interchanged with i sometimes
Thanks Brian
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Hi Brian,
I wouldn't put it quite as strongly as that. In very early documents the i does the job of the j, whether it be ioyned, adioyneing or periury. You will find that to be the case in the C16th and much of the C17th, but rarely after 1700.
The i and the y tend to be mixed casually; often among instances of the same word in the same document - sayd/said, ffortye/ffortie, wyfe/wife and so on.
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Hello
I finished page 1. It is getting easier as I proceed thanks to your help. I had a couple of highlighted areas I need help on and proof read the rest.
Thanks Brian
My transcription
to Ellin my wife two peeces of ground called by the name of the Poole Pieads the
one in my possession and the one other in the possession of Richard Eaton for and during
her life to bee att her owne disposeing the Renew rord of my Lease: Item I
give and bequeath unto Ellin my wife all that parte of ground in my possession
inclosed in Sowdley Parke next adioyning to the gate to hold during the Terme
of foure cropps: Item I give and bequeath unto Thomas Davison my sonne in
Lawe that peece of ground adioyning to those peece of ground att the Peeten
Lande to hold during my Lease paying to Ellin my wife or Ffrancis my sonne
and heir assigne the sume of Tenne shillings yearlie for Rent: Item I give
and bequeath all the possession of the remayning part of ground both inclosed
and uninclosed in Cheswardine and Sowdley Park unto my wife and Ffrancis my
sonne as also all the land in the Snape inclosed and uninclosed during my
Lease they rereining the Rents before men?ened making ingup and paying
the whole rent to the Lorde: Item I give and bequeath to Margarett Davison
my daughter Tenne pounds: Item I give and bequeath to Rowland Davison and Richard
my grandchildren Seaven pounds betwixt them towards the setting them off when
the time of their apprentishipp is expired: Item I give and bequeath to Thomas
Davison my grandchild to sett him apprentise seaven pounds: Item I give and bequeath
to Ffrancis Davison my grandchild toward the setting him Apprentice three pounds
and Ewe sheepe to bee given him immediatly after my decease: Item I give and
bequeath unto all the rest of my Grandchildren, children of my sonne and daughter
Davison ffortie shillings a peece and every one of them an ewe sheepe to bee de
livered att my decease, and the moneyse to bee putt forth for their good And
Hieytorereine itt as they come to age: Item I give and bequeath to Thomas
Preston my Grandchild seaven pounds to bind him Apprentice: Item I give to
John Preston my Grandchild five pounds towarde bindinge him Prentice, and
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Hello again Brian,
I've been enjoying following this transcription thread with you. It reminds me of the frustrating enjoyment I used to get out of doing these documents. :)
OK, here's my go at it.
....Poole Heads....
(I'm not sure what he's actually written, but could it be a word for renewal?)
Snape(?)
...receiving the Rents before mentioned makinging up....(I could be wrong but it does look like the writer has written "ing" twice)
...ffortie shillings...
they to receive itt....
Hope this helps.
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Darren
It has been an adventure of discovery so far. When a new name pops up, trying to find other evidence of existence or location. So far Poole "heads" has proved elusive. Other locations like Soudley park, castle house, and Peeton have been confirmed and found. It is fascinating to get a glimpse of the lives of the ancestors. I can't wait to to see what discoveries are on Page 2.
I was thinking the writer of this was probably a clerk being dictated to by John Butter, as he was "sore visited by sickness" the double ing is a puzzler though
I was wondering why he would say 40 shillings rather than 2 pounds, maybe it just sounded like more, even though 40 shillings equates to the buying power of £9900 today.
Thanks for your insight Darren
Brian
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Brian,
I'm not 100% on the "ing", but it does certainly look like it. Most early wills were written by someone else, even if the testator could read and write.
Place names are sometimes the hardest to decipher, unless you are very familiar with the local terrain. Farms, fields, tracts of land etc. are all sometimes given names, some of which don't exist today.
Darren
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There does seem to be a Poole Head.
http://search.shropshirehistory.org.uk/collections/getrecord/CCA_X3320_1_1_1_R323056/
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Possibly it was a tract of land or property because I can't locate it on Google Maps.
Your ancestor living at Cheswardine is not far from my wife's ancestors at Stanton Upon Hine Heath.
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Looks like an excellent job, Brian. Terrific progress since the start of the thread.
A few suggestions to add to Darren's, which may or may not help ...
The place-name is written Poole Head (no s), and is repeated again in lines 7-8. I don't think it's Peeten Land. I think what you are reading as n at the end of the line is just a filler. Compare the way Poole is written the first time?
... the Reverc(i)on of my Lease ...
making ing up may simply be a copying error for making it up, which would fit the context.
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Most early wills were written by someone else, even if the testator could read and write.
This will is in any case a register copy, not an original will. As mentioned above (reply #9), register copies were made by the clerks and entered into the will registers as formal records of the probate court.
Occasionally the clerks made copying errors. I think this is what happened with making ing up. Sometimes you see such errors underlined by whoever checked the copy afterwards (though not in this case).
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Aah! Revercion....
Thanks BookBox, I can see that now.
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well done Bookbox, revercion seems to be the right word. Poole Head and seems to be near and about Donnington, Shropshire (which is the next parish over). It could be the place, but it also could be in the Cheswardine/Soudley/Chipnall area where most of his holdings were. It may not exist anymore or it may be a field name.
Early in the will there was mention of Tagmore. There is a Tag lane which runs NW from Chipnall which
may indicate a Tagmore in the past.
I found this entry for Chipnal estates http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/ba59631d-ddda-460d-9154-a8d8247ea41e which hints at Peeton being a Butter lease. I am currently trying to see about obtaining a copy to verify.
My Butter/Jervis ancestors were centred in Cheswardine from the early 1800's back to the 1400's.
Brian
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That document(s) could give you more information about the time of your ancestor's tenure on those properties. One of my ancestors leased property that belonged to one of the Oxford colleges, and I was very fortunate to be able to access lease dates and other information.
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I have reached the end, of the will that is :D
I have a couple of parts that I need assistance with. My thanks Brian
Item I give and bequeath to every of my servants two shillings sixpence a peece
Item I give and bequeath to the poore of the Parish of Cheswardine forty shillings
to bee unpayed and devided as other moneys are itt the diference of the minister
and parish wardens, my wife and my sonne: Item my will is that Edward Butter
my kinsmen have his keeping with meate and drinke and cloathing by my ????
wife and Ffrancis my sonne if hee like to continue with them during his life
Item itt is my will that the moneyes given and bequested afore said bee paid
by my Executor within the space of Five yeares next after my decease and the
Legacies given to my grandchildren to bee litt forth and they to receive itt as
formerly:Item I give and bequeath all the rest of my goods moveable and
removeable, Cattle and chattles within doore and without to Ellin my wife and
Ffrancis my sonne to be equally divided betwixt them, my funerall expenses
and all debte legaciee being ffirst satisfyed and discharged Pronide dip the goods
doe sum amounts paying my funerall expences debte and lagacies That this will
is my Will and Testament that Thomas Davison and John Preston to have
tenne pounds a peece; item lastly I doe hereby constitute and ordaine Ellin
my wife to bee my sole Executor to per for me and fullfill this my last Will and
Testament And I hereby constitute and ordaine Ffrancis Butter my sonne,
Thomas Davison and John Preston my sonns in lawe to bee supervisors of
this my last Will and Testament In Wiittnesse whereof I have sett my hand to
Seale this Eighteenth day of Ffebruary One thousand six hundred ffifty three
John Butter his marks, Memorandum that the enterlining of Thomas Davi
son in the last line but This was done before the sealing here of, Sealed in the
presence of Richard Eaton his marke Anne Owen her marke George Marsh
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...as other moneyes are att the discrec(i)on of the Minister... (= discretion)
and Churchwardens...
Agree with you on the meate etc. The characters at the end of the line I think must be fillers.
The word you have as litt is tricky. I would say it is lett, but would not entirely rule out sett.
...goods moveable and
unmoveable... (This is a standard phrase.)
...and all debts legacies being ffirst satisfyed and discharged Provided if the goods
doe surmount paying my funerall expences debts and Legacies That then itt
is my Will...
...the interlining of Thomas Davi
son in the last line but Two was done...
ADDED: Agree with you on unpayed. The sense must be that the un carries forward to the divided as well - ie unpayed and (un)divided.
...my kinsman...
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One I missed:
...my sole Executor to performe and fullfill...
Also, from your first extract:
...worldly goods I thus dispose...
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I think Horsleydown86 has nailed it. The only thing I can add is I agree it is "lett", even though "sett" would make more sense (at least to us). If you compare the first letter to other words starting with "s", it doesn't look much alike. It does however look like other "l" s on the page.
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to Hd86 and Darren and Bookbox too
I think you've nailed it. I can't believe I couldn't see discrecon the f and s still fool me.
I think I went too fast on the last page creating errors, when I looked back after I had finished I found I had missed a whole line!
At the end of the meate line I thought it could be an adjective describing his wife, but "filler" seems to work fine.
I did have a question on the memorandum. Any idea what "the interlining of Thomas Davison in the last line but Two was done" means? It is the word "two" that has me confused. I understand that on the original will a line was added between existing lines "interlining".
Thanks again for your assistance and all the extra knowledge you have provided. I have enjoyed the experience.
Brian
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Any idea what "the interlining of Thomas Davison in the last line but Two was done" means? It is the word "two" that has me confused. I understand that on the original will a line was added between existing lines "interlining".
It means that in the original will, in the third line from the end (= ‘last line but two’), the words ‘Thomas Davison’ were added between the lines (= ‘interlining’) before the will was sealed. This presumably relates to his appointment as one of the supervisors.
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It means that in the original will, in the third line from the end (= ‘last line but two’), the words ‘Thomas Davison’ were added between the lines (= ‘interlining’) before the will was sealed. This presumably relates to his appointment as one of the supervisors.
Thankyou Bookbox for clearing that up for me. Have a great Christmas season.
Brian
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You too, Brian :)
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Another Great bit of work..thanks all