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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset Lookup Requests => Somerset => England => Somerset Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ndmhine on Wednesday 09 December 15 16:36 GMT (UK)
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Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
Hi,
I am looking for a baptism record, and any closely-related records, for my ancestor Elizabeth Toms. She married John Meech in Sydling St Nicholas, Dorset in 1811. On census returns she consistently puts her birthplace as Combe St Nicholas, Somerset, and ages indicating birth circa 1791.
I am unable to find anywhere online where I can access baptisms for Combe St Nicholas. If anyone has access, I would be hugely grateful to know anything there is available about her, her parents or her siblings.
Many thanks indeed
Nick
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Have you considered getting in touch with the Somerset & Dorset Family History Society or the Somerset Records Office?
Links below
http://www.sdfhs.org/
http://www1.somerset.gov.uk/archives/
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On the face of it, this seems an unlikely claim as there are no baptisms in the name of TOMS in the Combe St Nicholas [CSN] registers. However, there was a TOMS presence in Chard amongst Non-conformists, with John TOMS the ironmonger, stationer and subsequently postmaster, who joined the Chard Baptist Church in 1831 when aged 42, and raised children of two marriages there. He gave his birthplace as Bishopsteignton, Devon.
The only TOMS link I've encountered in CSN records is the 1821 marriage between Aaron TOMS of Drayton and Hannah WILLIAMS. I can't check details on the PRs as my fiche-reader is currently awaiting a new bulb, but Richard & Hannah WILLIAMS presented a daughter Elizabeth for baptism in 1790 in CSN and, amongst others in the following period, a daughter Hannah in 1799.
On 04 Oct 1791 John TOMS of Isle Brewers married Elizabeth MUNCKTON at Drayton by licence and they appear the likely so-named parents for Aaron baptized 1798 at Curry Rivel. In 1851, at St James Clerkenwell, Aaron claimed Drayton for his birthplace and his wife Hannah claimed Combe St Nicholas. It's possible that Elizabeth TOMS was born at CSN but baptized at her father's place of legal settlement or elsewhere. I'd be inclined to widen the search to include the above mentioned parishes: also, to take on board the possibility that Elizabeth TOMS may have been born before, or very early in, her parents' marriage.
One other point: have you ascertained the marital status of Elizabeth TOMS in 1811 in case she might have been a widow?
Happy hunting!
Update:
It appears likely the John TOMS referred to in para. 1 above might have been the junior; and possibly one of 15 children born to the gentleman of the obituary below. Source: 'Chard Baptists' by Malcolm Bonnington, 1992 ISBN 1 870649036.
Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 30 July 1829
At Chard, July 21, the Rev. John Toms, nearly 30 years pastor of the Baptist chapel in that town. He preached twice on the preceding Sunday, and while returning home from chapel was seized with apoplexy, of which he expired in forty-eight hours.
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Thanks both. I was trying to see how far I could get online as I am based a long away from Somerset.
Thanks particularly to dee-jay for all that research - very helpful. John Toms and Aaron Toms look like promising lines of enquiry, certainly, if the Elizabeth Toms, b Combe St Nicholas line of enquiry is the right one.
However, now I look at it with fresh eyes after a month away, I'm beginning to be less sure I (and everyone else who has investigated them previously) have identified the right marriage record for this couple (John & Elizabeth Meech was a pretty common set of names). In that case my search for Elizabeth Toms b1791-2 might be a red herring as she may have a different maiden name.
The family are confusing as they may have moved around extensively before ending up in South Perrott, Dorset. A selection of other people's trees on ancestry.com (not a trustworthy source by any means!) have come to a different conclusions about which Meeches born to people called John and Elizabeth Meech are actually their children. I will need to re-examine the hard evidence from the last person who is definitively my ancestor (their daughter Flora Meech) and try to eliminate any unsound conclusions.
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Confusing alternate spellings of the 18th century strike again. I have found a much more likely marriage record than the one I was previously looking at:
http://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/55109137e937900ae869a098?search_id=568a78c7791e3b84c80008b6
The reason I had not spotted that before is that "Much" does not equate to "Meech" under any of the name-matching algorithms, but the fact that the groom's parish is listed as "Perrott, Dorset", which is where my couple then had their children, convinces me this is the right marriage.
Therefore I have replaced the mystery of who was Elizabeth Toms with who was Elizabeth Diment!
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Confusing alternate spellings of the 18th century strike again. I have found a much more likely marriage record than the one I was previously looking at:
The FreeREG link is useless as it does not contain any information! However, DIMENT is a regular feature in CSN PRs, and Dr Campbell's index compounds the Phillimore's transcript of 'MUCH'. I can't check the microfiche as my reader's bulb 'popped' last night and it may take a few days to obtain a replacement. However, there is a baptism for a Betty, daughter of Thomas & Betty DIMENT dated 26 Apr 1791 at CSN. :)
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Wonderful! That must be her. Many thanks.
Apologies - I didn't realise the freereg link wouldn't go to the result page. This was the information I was looking at:
Field Value
County Somerset
Place Combe St Nicholas
Church name St Nicholas
Register type Phillimore's Transcripts
Marriage date 24 Dec 1812
Groom forename John
Groom surname MUCH
Groom parish Perrott Dorset
Bride forename Elizabeth
Bride surname DIMENT
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John MEECH provided a signature at marriage, as did Elizabeth DIMENT and their witnesses: William DIMENT; Mary ??????; Elizabeth STONE. Theirs was the last marriage in that particular register.
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Very interesting. I guess that means they were all literate, which would still have been relatively unusual at that time.
William Diment could possibly have been her brother, but he'd only have been 13 so possibly an uncle or grandfather. I think I have found the immediate family from other records now I know the right surname. For future reference of anyone else looking for the same family:
Thomas Diment 1761-1836 married Betty Buckler/Budler 1760-1845 in Chard on 6 Feb 1782, they seem to have had 6 children in CSN:
Robert Diment 1783 (m Eliza Gange)
Mary Diment 1786 (m William French 1808)
Elizabeth Diment 1791-1880 (m John Meech 1812)
William Diment 1799-1869
Hannah Diment 1800 (possibly died unmarried, Chard, 1870?)
Thomas Diment 1804-1876 (m Ann, 6 children)
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CSN Marriage
27 Mar William DIMENT ofa Widr Farmer Farm at end of Combe St son of Thomas DIMENT, Farmer
1845 Hannah POOLE ofa Spinster Dressmaker Combe dau of John POOLE Clothier [& Abigail nee DEANE]
No 62 Their signatures: Wm DIMENT; Han POOLE
Witnesses signatures: John WILCE; Mary MUNCKTON
Found CSN 1841 [with a John MEETCH in the DIMENT household] and in 1851 my 2 x Gt-grandfather's brother William DEANE 15 was a servant employed on the farm.
CSN Baptism
19 Jul 1789 William son of Thomas & Betty DIMENT
M (1) Elisabeth ROBINS 09 Jun 1814 bur 28 Sep 1820 aged 32 'Wife of William Diment'
M (2) Hannah POOLE
Relevant CSN Burials
28 Dec 1800 Hannah Daughter of Thomas & Betty DIMENT
13 Jan 1836 Thomas DIMENT 75
30 Jan 1845 Elizabeth DIMENT 85 [possible bap 01 Jul 1759 Betty BUGLER dau of Thomas/Betty at Chard]
13 Jul 1869 William DIMENT 80 [bap 19 Jul 1789]
07 Jul 1870 Hannah DIMENT 70
CSN Baptism
12 Apr 1815 John Wilton, son of William & Elizabeth DIMENT, Husbandman of Combe Street.
(Private)
No 80
You can pick up his trail 1841 in Crewkerne with his father-in-law Matthew HILL, whose daughter Hannah aged 23 he married at CSN 29 Mar 1838 ;)
To keep your record accurate, Thomas DIMENT and Betty BUCKLER provided signatures at marriage. The clerk or cleric had made an error in the initial register entry which was rectified by an interlinear 'ck' above the centre of Betty's surname to match her signature.
Happy hunting!
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A very pleasing treasure trove of Diments. Many thanks.
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hi
I have come in a bit late on this question
elizabeth hannah toms was my great grand aunt b 25 oct 1823 old st finsbury, london, christened 25 dec st luke finsbury
died west ham march 1879
most of the toms on my stream live in west ham/leytonstone.
recently one of the home there was ready for demolition and documents and letters from the early 1800s were found, including letters from a branch of the family in canada
i have visited curry rivel and the church there but not a lot to see