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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: chr1st1an on Saturday 12 December 15 18:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone! :)
Searching through old photographs, I have found one of my great grandmother, I think serving as a V.A.D. nurse during World War I.
I would like some more information about these nurses, because it's a topic I have very little knowledge about, but I think it is most fascinating!
As soon as possible I will upload the picture.
All I can add now is that her name was Mrs. Mary Alice Lawton, and that she had her first two sons in Audenshaw (near Ashton, Lancashire) in 1910 and 1912 respectively, and three more sons (from 1916 to 1922) at Brierley (near Barnsley, Yorkshire). So I suppose she could have worked as a nurse in either town, during WWI.
Many thanks (in advance)!!!
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The picture in question...
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Google throws up:
http://www.redcross.org.uk/About-us/Who-we-are/Museum-and-archives/Resources-for-researchers/Volunteers-and-personnel-records
http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/181.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Aid_Detachment
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Are you sure it's in WW1, she doesn't seem to be dressed as most images of VADs show - they all have long sleeves? It looks later to me, especially as she is wearing a watch and showing so much ankle!
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No, I am not sure it was WWI. There is no date on the back of the picture. Could it be WWII? :-\
How could we know?
[Thanks KGarrad for the links... I will study them carefully]
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If her sons were born in 1910 & 1912, it could have been WW1. She wouldn't look so young for WW2 ;) ;) ;)
The uniform doesn't look like any VAD uniform I've ever seen, especially the cap.
VADs usually wore a sort of veil, bunched at the back and sticking out a bit. The headgear your gm has on is a hospital nurses' uniform type.
If you Google voluntary aid detachment you will get lots of sites about it.
Remember is was VOLUNTARY i.e. volunteer, they didn't get paid. My OH's wife was a VAD in WW2. They were like the enrolled nurse / nurse's aid that we know today.
Dawn M
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she had her first two sons in Audenshaw (near Ashton, Lancashire) in 1910 and 1912 respectively, and three more sons (from 1916 to 1922)
Would she have worked as a nurse with such young children? Do you know for certain that she was a VAD or is it just the photo that makes you think that? I'm wondering if it is actually a nurse's unifom or could it be some sort of maid? The short sleeves don't look right to me for that period.
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I would say that the photo could have been taken as late as the 1950s and positively not First World War. Assuming (dangerous) that your great-grandmother was born around 1890 at the earliest, there seems little possibility that it could be her. So a nurse, but in my opinion of a much later period. Family-wise, a generation out.
Sue
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Would she have worked as a nurse with such young children? Do you know for certain that she was a VAD or is it just the photo that makes you think that? I'm wondering if it is actually a nurse's unifom or could it be some sort of maid? The short sleeves don't look right to me for that period.
As I said, I found that photograph (among the ones of my great grandmother), and I supposed it was her serving as a V.A.D. nurse during World War I.
Now I have doubts that: 1. It was my great-grandmother (at all); 2. that this person was serving as a V.A.D; and 3. it was WW1. :-[
I did not know that wristwatches became popular for women after WW1.
I now see that uniforms of V.A.D.(s) usually had a red cross on them.
I hadn't thought either that if a woman had small children she would not volunteer as a V.A.D. (specially if there was no pay). And this has also puzzled me: if soldiers and officers were paid (as this link explains: http://www.1914-1918.net/pay_1914.html ) why didn't V.A.D.(s) receive payment for their help???
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I don't know the answer to why they weren't paid, but it could be something to do with the fact that women in the early 1900s didn't usually work, especially if they came from the middle or upper classes which is where most VADs came from. They were unaccustomed to hardship and traditional hospital discipline and were not trained nurses but were volunteers.
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Pre-war it was a part-time voluntary commitment, usually carried out in the women's home areas - a bit like belonging to a club or other voluntary organisation.
During the First World War VADs working in military hospitals under War Office control in the UK and almost all VADs working overseas were well paid for their work - unfortunately many myths about 'no pay' have worked their way into current websites and articles. Some details about nurses' pay here:
http://www.fairestforce.co.uk/12.html
Sue
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Yes, but from that site, those who didn't go abroad were still not paid:
"VAD members employed in the United Kingdom under the Joint War Committee received allowances for board and lodging but no pay – ‘voluntary’ was the vital word."
I presume that those chosen to go abroad would be younger single women, or perhaps those who had had previous nursing experience? Vera Brittain's book 'Testament of Youth' makes interesting reading of that time. She was an undergraduate student at Somerville College, Oxford and when war broke out disrupted her studies to enrol as a volunteer nurse, nursing casualties both in England and on the Western Front.
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The Joint War Committee was the wartime amalgamation of the British Red Cross Society and St. John. VADs employed in their auxiliary hospitals in the UK weren't paid, but those working in the UK in military hospitals under War Office control were paid, as well as those overseas.
So Vera Brittain would not have been paid initially while working in Buxton, but was paid when she later moved to London to work at No.1 London General Hospital, Camberwell, and of course when she went overseas to Malta and later to France. I agree that there were many thousands of VADs who worked in the UK and were not paid, but wrong to assume that VADs were never paid.
Women had to be at least 23 years of age for overseas service, and the average age was a good deal higher than that, so they had to be older and more mature to work overseas than in the UK.
Sue
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That's interesting. Unfortunately it doesn't get us any closer to identifying who the lady is apart from the fact it probably wasn't taken around WW1.
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Thank you groom and thank you Scarletwoman for all your help!
It is also "clear" to me that I have no idea who this woman was, or what was her picture doing among my great grandmother's. Maybe she was a friend, a niece, a neighbour or who knows!!!... :-\
I'm going to forget all about this matter. Nevertheless it has been very interesting finding information about VADs, and discussing it with such helpful people as you are.
A million thanks! :)
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I wonder if someone could help.
Just discovered that my great aunt, Kezia Esther McConville (nee Allen) was a VAD in WW1. I have found her VAD cards on the Red Cross site, and also her medal index card. Could someone please help me with the acronyms?
- VAD card 1 Using her maiden name:
Date of engagement: Engaged 2 March 1916; Rank=N.S. = nurse?
Date of termination: 10 Mar 1917; Rank=N.S. = nurse?
Previous Engagements under Jt War Committee ... Dept for References: Liverpool: Hcs:
Period of service 2 Mar 1916 - 10 Mar 1917 (when she was heavily pregnant); Commission or Dept for references = France
- VAD card 2 Using her married name
Date of engagement: Engaged 14 July 1915 (possibly an error, 14 May 1917 instead); Rank T.N. = trained nurse?
Date of termination: 31 Dec 1917; Rank= nothing typed
Previous Engagements under Jt War Committee ... Dept for References: T.N. Dept.
Period of service: 14 July 1915 (possibly an error, 14 May 1917 instead), after her son was born) - 31 Dec 1917. ; Commission or Dept for references = T.N. Dept
Medal card
Corps = BRC & ST JJ= British Red Cross and Order of St John of Jerusalem?
Victory Medal - Roll= BRX/101B/page 9
British - same
One other mystery. Cassie was from Lancashire. Sadly, she died in December 1918 from plu/pneumonia, likely a casualty of the Spanish Flu pandemic and a consequence of treating wounded soldiers from the war. The strange thing is that she died in a nursing home in Westcliff on Sea aged just 33. How can I explain her presence in Essex. Might she have worked on the ambulance trains shipping the wounded from France. That's today's theory but would welcome any other ideas to explain this odd location (Her mother from Lancashire was at her bedside when she died).
Any help/ideas would be much appreciated.
In anticipation, many thanks and best wishes
John