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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Mandy Pearce on Wednesday 16 December 15 12:39 GMT (UK)

Title: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Wednesday 16 December 15 12:39 GMT (UK)
Hi, I have been trying to find out about my paternal grandmother for ages but hit a brick wall every time.
I have so much conflicting information about her. Her last name was Gormley , I believe her first name was Emily but she was also known as Emma. I believe that she was born on 08/02/1905 but can find no trace of her birth in any country. She married George O'Shea in 1923 in Worcester England . In later life she was known as Dorothy O'Shea  and Dolly O'Shea and married Joseph Lawrence in 1951 in Walsall, west Midlands. My Father always believed that she had been born in Cork, Ireland but I can find no evidence of this at all. Her Mother was called Mary Ann Gormley but I can find no evidence of her birth either. But I do know that Mary Ann lived in Worcester England for most of her life until she died. she married William Stroud in 1913 and Fredrick Owen Burch in 1949 both marriages in Worcester England. If anyone can shed any light on this for me I would be very grateful. Also any info about George O'Shea my paternal Grandfather would be helpful..thanks
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 December 15 15:22 GMT (UK)
Have you any marriage certificates that might show her father's name

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 17 December 15 15:31 GMT (UK)
Agree with LM - a marriage cert is needed!

This looks like the mother's death:
Jun 1956
Worcester
ref 9d 247
Mary A Burch
age 75

So born 1881 ish
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 December 15 15:50 GMT (UK)
"I believe that she was born on 08/02/1905 "

Are you suggesting Mary was born before her mother married in 1913?

LM
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 December 15 15:56 GMT (UK)
Is this Emma/Emily's death



Ellen Lawrence
d of b 08/02/1905
March  2001
aged 96
Aylesbury Vale
Bucks
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 17 December 15 16:07 GMT (UK)
Agree with LM - a marriage cert is needed!

This looks like the mother's death:
Jun 1956
Worcester
ref 9d 247
Mary A Burch
age 75

So born 1881 ish

Mary Ann (Burch) gives a birth date of 25 November 1880 in 1939  ;)
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 December 15 16:33 GMT (UK)
Don't know if 1939 gives place of birth

I still feel a  certificate of her first marriage might solve the problem, till then I feel a little stuck

Mandy, please come back to us we are trying to help

regards

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 17 December 15 16:47 GMT (UK)
Are you suggesting Mary was born before her mother married in 1913?

It does sound like it, both from dates, and the fact that Emma/Emily had surname Gormley and so did mother Mary Ann , before their respective marriages.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 17 December 15 16:54 GMT (UK)
I searched 1939 index for 'Ellen Lawrence' date of birth 8 feb 1905
This was a result-
Dorothy E Emily Lawrence (Oshen)   born 1905   Walsall C.B.   Staffordshire
Presume Oshen should be Oshea  :-\

This was before her Lawrence marriage

Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 17 December 15 16:56 GMT (UK)
Is this Emma/Emily's death



Ellen Lawrence
d of b 08/02/1905
March  2001
aged 96
Aylesbury Vale
Bucks

I think this one is more likely:
June 1967
Walsall
9b 644
Dorothy E Lawrence
age 62
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 December 15 18:21 GMT (UK)
I did wonder about other names as she was also called Dolly, still looking for a birth, only Dorothy E E registered Dec qtr 1905 West Bromwich, but under surname of LENHAM, toO late I suspect but I did have an instance with a child registered 6 months after birth

LM
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 17 December 15 21:11 GMT (UK)
I wonder if Mary and her daughter were living with another family at sometime after her birth, or was the mother away working and the daughter was elsewhere, did Emma/Emily/Dorothy have any siblings prior to Marys marriage in 1913?
LM
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 December 15 09:43 GMT (UK)
Frederick Owen Burch died 1959 Worcester aged 75, his date of birth circa 1884, born Pershore  just a bit of added info

LM
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 11:12 GMT (UK)
Hi , yes Emma/Emily was born prior to her mothers marriage in 1913. On Emma's marriage certificate in 1923 she names William Stroud as her father but I am not sure if this is the truth, She did have a sister called Rose Gormley born in Worcester October 1913 just weeks before Mary Ann married Mr Stroud. I do Know for definite that Emma died in Walsall and I do have Marriage & Death certificates for both Emma & Mary, the 1939 register has Emma living in Walsall under the name of Dorothy / Dolly but no place of birth. It also shows Mary ann in Worcester living with Mr Burch and calling herself Mary Ann Burch even though she was not married to him at this time.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 December 15 11:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Mandy, can you give us more information on William Stroud, how old was he when he married Emma/Emily in 1913, and where was he born,  it all adds to the search

regards

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: lizdb on Friday 18 December 15 12:09 GMT (UK)
I think it was MAry Ann who married Mr Stroud, not Emma/Emily/Dorothy/Dolly.

What a confusing family.

But it seems Emma/E/D/etc took Mr Stroud to be her father , even if he was only her step father, when she herself married.


So, it seems the earliest record of the family is 1913 when Rose was born, then shortly afterwards MAry's marriage to Mr S.

MAybe she and little Emma/E/D arrived in UK (from Ireland?) after 1911 census, so it will hard to find info.

Have you found Mr Stroud on 1911? (As LM says, info about him might help?) MAybe Mary and little E/D are with him, maybe even using name Stroud?
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 13:20 GMT (UK)
Hi, I have tried to upload the certificates I have but the files are too large so here is the info I have
Mary Ann Gormley married William Stroud 02/12/1913 in St Georges catholic chapel, Worcester, Worcestershire. William was 32 and Mary Ann was 33 he was a Bachelor and she was a spinster. They both lived at 36 Newport street Worcester.
William's Father was William Stroud (deceased) general labourer
Mary Ann's Father was Thomas Gormley ~ general dealer
I believe that Mary Ann's mother was also called Mary
I think that Mary Ann had 2 brothers John and David
John Married Elizabeth Dayus 10/12/1910 ?
David married Ada Hall 22/11/1913 ?
Mary Ann had a son with William Stroud called Percy but in later life he was known as Percy Gormley not Percy Stroud.
I don't know what happened to William Stroud but Mary Ann married Fredrick Owen Burch 28/05/1949 they lived at 39 Vigornia avenue, Worcester
Mary Ann Burch died in Shrub Hill hospital Worcester 25/05/1956 age 75
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 13:54 GMT (UK)
My Grandmother Emma Gormley was Mary Ann Gormley's daughter
My Father always believed she was born 08/02/1905
She married George O'Shea 13/10/1923 both Emma & George were age 20 ???
They married at St Georges catholic chapel Worcester ,
George was a bachelor , lived at 20 quay street Worcester and he was a licenced Hawker
his father was James O'Shea (deceased bricklayer)
Emma was a spinster. lived at 54 Copenhagen street Worcester and she was a charwoman
her father is down as William Stroud ? and he was a Hawker.
Emma & George had 3 sons  Walter born 28/05/1924 born at number 1 lich street Worcester
and Joseph Trevor (my father) born 18/04/1930 at number 1a tallow hill, Worcester (workhouse ?)
David was born in Walsall west midlands in about 1932
George O'Shea seems to vanish after this time
Emma was now known as Dorothy / dolly and was living in Walsall with a live in partner called Robert Hawkins with whom she had 2 daughter jean and Mary both with the surname O'Shea
and lived at 34 Fullbrook road Walsall
On  10th February 1951 she married Joseph Henry Lawrence at Walsall registry office
she passed away 24/04/1967 at 45 Pattison street, Walsall age 62 .
But where did this family come from ? they seem to just appear in Worcester 1913 with the birth of Emmas sister Rose.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 December 15 14:01 GMT (UK)

Mary Ann's Father was Thomas Gormley ~ general dealer
I believe that Mary Ann's mother was also called Mary
I think that Mary Ann had 2 brothers John and David
John Married Elizabeth Dayus 10/12/1910 ?
David married Ada Hall 22/11/1913 ?


Presumably you have these people on census in England  :-\
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: lizdb on Friday 18 December 15 14:11 GMT (UK)
Looking at Johns around with wife called Elizabeth leads me to this family (where the John is 13) and indeed he does have a sister Mary of the right sort of age as the Mary we are looking for:

6 Moores Lane, Standish, Lancs
Patrick Gormley 47 widower colliery pumpmaker? above ground
Ellen Ann 17
John 13
Mary 10
Jane 7      all bn Standish
Thomas Cheetham 76 widwr boarder retired colliery labourer bn Eccleston


wrong fathers name, and no brother called David though.

Where did you get all that info about Mary's family from, when her place of birth is eluding you?
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 14:45 GMT (UK)
hi, I have gone into john Gormley's army records and on there it says his mother mas Mary Ann his Father was Thomas and his sister was Mary Ann  and his brother was David
they lived at 33 Newport street , Worcester.
According to these records John was born in Birmingham, Warwickshire in1884, but I can find no trace of his birth.
David Gormley was a witness at Mary Ann's marriage to William Stroud, He was also a witness when Emma Gormley married George O'Shea.
John Gormley was a witness when David Gormley married Ada Hall
It all seems to tie these people together.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 14:52 GMT (UK)
It also states on Johns army records that David was a younger brother and this seems to fit.
the army records give John's year of birth as 1884
and from David's age on his marriage certificate he was born in 1890.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Dundee on Friday 18 December 15 14:57 GMT (UK)
Thomas and family are easy enough to find in 1911 but before that I am stumped  ;D ;D

Debra  :D
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 15:04 GMT (UK)
I have been trying to sort this out since my father passed away 3 years ago. He had always believed that the family were from Cork and where Travellers, but out of  all the things that I have discovered the only link to Ireland I can find is the name Gormley, the rest is just one big puzzle.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: MaureeninNY on Friday 18 December 15 15:45 GMT (UK)
Transcribed as GORMENNY on the 1901 A"try??

Maureen
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 15:47 GMT (UK)
Thank you , I will give that a try.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Dundee on Friday 18 December 15 15:51 GMT (UK)
Transcribed as GORMENNY on the 1901 A"try??

Maureen

Can we have a reference, I am not seeing that  8)
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Dundee on Friday 18 December 15 15:55 GMT (UK)
Got it now - GORMMENY  :)

Well found  ;D
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Friday 18 December 15 16:01 GMT (UK)
WOW...that is amazing....thank you so much x
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 18 December 15 16:02 GMT (UK)
Well done Maureen  ;D
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: MaureeninNY on Friday 18 December 15 16:05 GMT (UK)
 :-[ :-[ :)

Would have been better if I'd actually typed it correctly. ::)

Don't see them before that. >:(

Maureen
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 18 December 15 17:09 GMT (UK)
John Gormely, possible birth reg
1883 Dec qtr
Birmingham
ref 6d 37

 
LOUISA  MAUD
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 18 December 15 17:45 GMT (UK)
Not sure if either of these relate to your Gormley family

Index only

Thomas Gormally born 31 Dec 1849
Baptism Date:   20 Jan 1850 St. Chad, Birmingham, Warwickshire
parents Deonasii Gormally & Mariae

Marriage entry FreeBMD

Jun 1888 Birmingham vol 6d page 99
Gorm_lly Thomas
Female names on same page
Avery Mary Ann
Lee Emily Jane

The birth certificate of one of their children would confirm mmn


Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Winnetpickers on Wednesday 12 April 17 12:17 BST (UK)
Hi Mandy,
I think my auntie Thelma maybe able to answer lots of your questions. If you would like to get in touch please message me bag with your email address.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 12 April 17 13:20 BST (UK)

I think my auntie Thelma maybe able to answer lots of your questions.

If you would like to get in touch please message me bag with your email address.

Winnetpickers - welcome to Rootschat  :)

Mandy should receive notification of your post for your info. to use the personal message system on Rootschat you will need to make a further 2 posts here and then you will be able to exchange details with Mandy privately  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=327529.0
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Mandy Pearce on Wednesday 12 April 17 15:33 BST (UK)
Hi, I really hope that your Auntie can help me, any information about any members of my family would be brilliant, I have been picking away at it for ages but getting nowhere    :)
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Emmtee on Wednesday 02 August 17 21:44 BST (UK)
I am Percy Gormleys daughter. Would love to make contact.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 03 August 17 09:18 BST (UK)
I am Percy Gormleys daughter. Would love to make contact.

Emmtee - hello and welcome to Rootschat  :)

Mandy Pearce should received notification of these posts it looks as if her email is still active
from her profile was last active May17

If you want to use the personal message system on Rootschat to exchange any personal info.
you need to make three postings before being allowed to use this facility.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: Emmtee on Thursday 03 August 17 12:09 BST (UK)
Thank you.
Title: Re: gormley family
Post by: sandy.l on Wednesday 26 June 19 22:53 BST (UK)
Hi Mandy,
I wondered if you had got any further with your Gormley research? I am connected to the O'shea family of Worcester. I had ordered the marriage certificate of George O'shea and Emma Gormley because I originally believed that George may have been my grandfather. The marriage certificate stated his father was James O'shea, which doesn't fit with my information for my grandfather, so I have put it to one side for the moment (although not entirely dismissed it!).
My grandfather was officially registered as George Alfred Davies, born 1903 in Worcester. He was also known by the name O'shea (his mother's maiden name) and Phillips (his mother's supposed married name, no evidence of marriage found). The family were fruit and flower hawkers in Worcester. George abandoned my father at the age of three after his mother Emily/Helen died. They were up in Lancaster at the time and were travelling hawkers.
The other thing I noticed was the address 33 Newport Street. My O'shea family also lived there. My grandfather's sister was born there (he ws born at 4 Court, Newport Street). This has to be more than a coincidence!
I have done the ancestry dna test, also 23andme. If you have done the dna test it would be interesting to see if we match. That may help answer some questions! If you are on ancestry, my user name is Sandra_Lightfoot

Hope to hear from you,
Sandra