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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: springer5 on Sunday 27 December 15 20:11 GMT (UK)

Title: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Sunday 27 December 15 20:11 GMT (UK)
Good Evening all  :)

I wonder if anyone could help with a marriage, siblings or children of William H Harris born to Ada S M Harris and Henry Robert  Harris in November 1916 London.registered at St Olave

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 27 December 15 20:40 GMT (UK)
His birth reg shows his mothers maiden name as Bateman and the marriage as 1915

You can use freebmd to search for Harris births with mothers maiden name Bateman to search for siblings.  However - there are other marriages between couples with the same surnames so unless you have some additional information you may not be able to determine the correct entries

www.freebmd.org.uk

The same website can be used to search for a marriage for William but without some additional information as to his wife's maiden name you may struggle as Harris is quite a common surname.

As he probably married in the late 1930's or 1940's - information as to any children born to his marriage cannot be given here as Rootschat has a "no living persons" policy


Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 27 December 15 20:48 GMT (UK)
This is his mothers birth reg from freebmd but there are too many Henry Robert Harris births to determine which was his fathers

Births June qtr 1889 
Ada Susan M Bateman        St. Olave    1d   259

She died 1965 Bromley
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: crisane on Sunday 27 December 15 21:03 GMT (UK)
Doing a basic search in the 1939 register on Findmypast Ada S M and Henry R are living in the Deptford district. There is one blocked entry on this record.
Searching then for a William H born 1916 there is one in Deptford living with a Henry R and one blocked entry.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: Daisypetal on Monday 04 January 16 20:05 GMT (UK)

Hi,

In the "London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965" I can see Ada S M HARRIS, Henry R HARRIS and sometimes William H HARRIS living at 14 Chalcroft Road, Lewisham between 1945 and 1956, after this Ada is on her own in 1957 and with William H HARRIS in 1958 and 1959, then on her own until 1964.


The "England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966" has,

Ada Susan Matilde HARRIS of 14 Chalcroft Road London E.13 died 23 April 1965 at Grove Park Hospital London S.E.12 Probate London 8 June to William Henry HARRIS petrol station manager 1261

Oops got to go now, late for dinner :-[

Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 04 January 16 23:54 GMT (UK)
Connected post here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738246.msg5844917#msg5844917
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: Daisypetal on Tuesday 05 January 16 16:00 GMT (UK)

Thanks Carole, saved me some time finding the will details :)
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Tuesday 05 January 16 17:04 GMT (UK)
thanks everyone have a copy of the will on its way :)

Can anyone tell me who William H Harris married please?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 05 January 16 17:21 GMT (UK)
The will may tell you - if not - you can look for a marriage on freebmd  www.freebmd.org.uk

However - as I said in my earlier reply

Quote
The same website can be used to search for a marriage for William but without some additional information as to his wife's maiden name you may struggle as Harris is quite a common surname.

Also - if you read reply 4 above the impression given is that William & his mother were the only occupants
Title: William H Harris/ Brunhilde Lucia Harris
Post by: springer5 on Thursday 07 January 16 19:37 GMT (UK)
Hi All

A few of you have helped me obtain the will of my relative, i have now received this, but cannot find this person Brunhilde Lucia Harris who is executor. , is it William Henry Harris wife or daughter.

I'm a little confused as on Deceased online Williams cremation records states that Roy William Harris is executor.

I later found a Brunhilde Lucia Figgs not sure if this is the same person

Any Help greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: William H Harris/ Brunhilde Lucia Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 20:17 GMT (UK)
What dates are we talking about? There is a person with this name on the 1964 London Electoral registers living in Woolwich.
Title: Re: William H Harris/ Brunhilde Lucia Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 20:18 GMT (UK)
More info please - dates of death and date will was made

Quote
I later found a Brunhilde Lucia Figgs not sure if this is the same person

Where did you find her?

Is she mentioned as a beneficiary?  If she was his wife - it would normally refer to her as such in the will
Title: Re: William H Harris/ Brunhilde Lucia Harris
Post by: JJen on Thursday 07 January 16 20:23 GMT (UK)
In 1962 a Brunhilde L Harris is living with a William H Harris at 9 Fairby Road, SE12

JJ
Title: Re: William H Harris/ Brunhilde Lucia Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 20:30 GMT (UK)
Previous post here - better to merge them to avoid further questions/confusion so will ask moderator to do so it



Topics merged.
Title: Re: William H Harris/ Brunhilde Lucia Harris
Post by: DavidJP on Thursday 07 January 16 20:34 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Previous threads here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738246.0

William Henry Harris died in 1985 in Bromley.

Kind regards

David
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 20:43 GMT (UK)
Could his wife still be alive, in which case her name will need to be removed?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: JJen on Thursday 07 January 16 20:55 GMT (UK)
Is this the record you found?

Brunhilde Lucia Figg
Age - 85
Birth Date - 1927
Death Date - 10 May 2012
Residence Place at Death - Bromley

JJ
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 20:57 GMT (UK)
There is a probate entry for her - you have the link already - her will may give more info. 
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 21:19 GMT (UK)
Bit more here with her address when she died

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-60256-1661613
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 21:33 GMT (UK)
There doesn't seem to have been any Brunhilda Lucia Harris or Figg born in 1927 or infact anyone with the name Brunhilde/Brunhilda as far as I can see. The name sounds German or Dutch, I wonder if she was a refugee from the war?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Thursday 07 January 16 22:03 GMT (UK)
yes thats the same address as the one in Wiliams, will, I wonder why Figg is her surname that is the same person I found earlier. William had her as his wife and as Harris

Why is it in the Gazette?

Thanks all so much
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 22:36 GMT (UK)
She may have remarried after William's death, but I can't find a marriage.

Quote
Why is it in the Gazette?

I think that deaths are "advertised" there in case anyone has a claim on the estate. I know when my mother died the solicitor mentioned it, but as we knew there was no one else who had any claim we didn't bother. I think the only way you will find out is, as Carole said, to download the will and hope that explains the change of name.

As we can't find a Figg/Harris marriage I wonder if they were never legally married but he just refered to her as his wife? Then after he died she reverted back to her legal name?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 22:39 GMT (UK)
As in my earlier reply - is she a beneficiary?  How is she referred to - other than his executor?

Any bequests to children etc etc?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Thursday 07 January 16 22:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks Groom and Carole for your replys.

Brunhilde is named as Williams wife as the sole beneficiary and executor of the will , no children are mentioned.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 22:51 GMT (UK)
So you have your answer.  They may have married outside England

A copy of her will may name family members - or not??
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Thursday 07 January 16 23:04 GMT (UK)
Thanks Carole.

I have tried looking on BDM for a death cert, is 2012 too recent as it won't let me find one.

Thanks!

This genealogy is so addictive, not knowing what you will find!!
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 23:18 GMT (UK)
Quote
I have tried looking on BDM for a death cert, is 2012 too recent as it won't let me find one.

Yes, too recent. It's lucky that she left a will, so at least you know when she died.

I wonder whether he met her when he was in the army during or after WW2 and they married in her own country and then returned here? I think I'd definitely get her will.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 23:21 GMT (UK)
Hi

My reply said
Quote
A copy of her will may name family members - or not??

I doubt a copy of her death cert would be of much use
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 23:40 GMT (UK)
Quote
I doubt a copy of her death cert would be of much use

It might be useful, Carole. I've just been looking at my mother's from 2009 and it gives maiden name and date and place of birth. Also her occupation and that of my father. You have to bear in mind though that it depends how well the informant knew Brunhilde.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 07 January 16 23:43 GMT (UK)
Good point Groom re: maiden name etc.  I'd forgotten about that info on female death certs.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Thursday 07 January 16 23:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks

though I doubt i an obtain a death cert?

Another thing is why in the Gazette is the solicitors in Tunbridge Wells when she died in Bromley, funnily enough I live in Tunbridge wells!

In Williams cremation records it says that a Ray William Harris is the executor,wonder who he is??!!
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Thursday 07 January 16 23:59 GMT (UK)
You can have a solicitor where you like. The firm that held my mother's will recommended a solicitor in Hertfordshire, we just dealt with him over the phone and by email.

I wonder if the solicitor would give you any information? Although they would probably charge you!

You should be able to get a certificate, as although you don't have a reference number you do know exactly where and when she died. You could try phoning the GRO for advice.

I still think I'd start with the will as she must have left her estate to someone. That will give their address as well, and as it is so recent they may still be there and you could contact them. Hopefully it wont be the local cats' home.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Friday 08 January 16 09:52 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I have looked at the electoral roll and found an Thomas A Figg living at the same address, though can' t find a marriage cert yet.

Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Friday 08 January 16 10:12 GMT (UK)
It could be that there wasn't a marriage and that she took his name perhaps by deed pole. I think the only way is to get the will/death certificate to see exactly what they say.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Friday 05 February 16 18:18 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I have received the will from Brunhilde Figg who died in 2012, it says nothing about a child or children, but she leaves money to her husbands family, her neice, and sister. it says nothing about her    first husband William Henry Harris or his family, who I belong to.

How do I find out more

Thanks
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Friday 05 February 16 18:52 GMT (UK)
Are there any addresses given in the will? If I were you, I'd start by trying to contact those people to see what they know.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Friday 05 February 16 19:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Groom,

There are no addresses for the people that received the estate, just those who witnessed the will?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: Daisypetal on Saturday 06 February 16 14:47 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I think I've found the marriage for Brunhilda Lucia HARRIS to Thomas FIGG :)


Brunhelda L HAMS
May 1989    Bromley    11  793
Thomas A FUGG


There is only a transcription at Ancestry and FindMyPast so I can't see what is actually on the index but I think that the place it occurred and the similarities in the names and make it a very good candidate :)


Although I can't see a death registration it looks like Thomas died just six months after Brunhilde,

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-60353-1724151


In Brunhilde's will whose sister is mentioned?


Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Saturday 06 February 16 16:12 GMT (UK)
Good find, Daisy. I agree, it has to be them.
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Saturday 06 February 16 22:54 GMT (UK)
Oh wow Daisy Thanks will look that up, and hopefully get a marriage cert.

The sister is Brunhildes sister,Erna Hoppe, no mention of any children with the name Harris surname of previous husband
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Saturday 06 February 16 23:07 GMT (UK)
How did we miss that - probate for his will is on the same page as Brunhilde's?

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=Figg&SurnameGrants=Figg&YearOfDeath=2012&YearOfDeathGrants=2012&IsGrantSearch=True&IsCalendarSearch=False#wills
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Saturday 06 February 16 23:10 GMT (UK)
Thanks Groom

Yes found that while ago i have ordered that, I wonder where Hams and Fugg comes from, I obviously know that someone has read Harris as Hams!
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: groom on Saturday 06 February 16 23:31 GMT (UK)
Does look very similar in some type faces doesn't it?
Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: Daisypetal on Sunday 07 February 16 13:33 GMT (UK)


Does the will say if Erna is Miss or Mrs HOPPE?

Title: Re: William H Harris
Post by: springer5 on Sunday 07 February 16 17:16 GMT (UK)
HI Daisy

No it doesn't say