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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: sladen keane on Wednesday 30 December 15 13:17 GMT (UK)
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My current interest is in John William Frank Ramsay Sladen and his wife Ellen Mary Keane
His background, as I understand it, was an aristocratic/military family originating in Wales and Kent and active in British India in the late 1700s and through 1800s. He was either born in India or Pakistan.
There was a "scandal"?? in the family, resulting in my branch - a not at all aristocratic branch of the Sladens.
I am guessing the scandal was that he married someone beneath him - Ellen Mary Keane
They were married in Perth, Scotland in 1884
Ellen's occupation on their marriage certificate is domestic servant. John was at Perth Barracks, occupation soldier,
I'd love to find out if she served the Sladen family in India and came over to Britain with John, or if she met John in Britain, Scotland specifically.
I haven't verified yet, but John might have come to Britain in 1881 with his regiment and might have been at Clarence Barracks in Portsmouth that year.
I would love any hints or tips how to go about pinning down when and where John was born (india?? 1850s??). I think Ellen might have been born in Tralee, Ireland (before 1864). I have a feeling that is going to be difficult to verify. I'd like to know how to find out how she ended up in Perthshire.
I have found a lot of snippets regarding the Sladen family, but as I haven't subscribed to a paid-site yet (other than Scotland's People PAYG) I can't verify much, so anyone related, I'd love to hear your story, and hints and tips for a newbie.
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I found a military record for John Willam Ramsay Sladen born Peshawar, Bengal aged 17 yr 1 mo on enlistment 18 Aug 1875. He married E m Keane 3 Nov 1884. His next of kin was brother Henry. He had a 4th class then obtained 3rd class education certificate on 26 Apr 1884 - does this indicate an aristocratic background?
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Josey
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Hi ,
There is an Ellen Neary(Mary ?) Keane age 24 born Tralee Kerry Ireland in Hampshire in 1881 , occupation cook.
ev
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And in 1881 Private J W R Sladen is at Portsmouth Barracks [Hampshire] RG11/1151/50/14..... according to his military service he left India on 20 Feb 1891.
Probate in 1910 for a Lt Col John Ramsay Frederick Sladen [?relative] died Fyzabad 28 Feb 1910 granted to widow Ada effects £1452 9s 7d - not a fortune.
There are 2 trees on ancestry with the same photograph of him.
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Pension records on ancestry show a John R Sladen who was a Major General in the RA. Retired 1872 died 10 Feb 1907. Children John Ramsay Fredk b 1860, Ethel b 1864, Alice Amelia b 1867. David Ramsay b 1872, Thomas Oliver Ramsay b 1872, Mary Dorothea b 1875. NO brother Henry for NOK as in the military record I found. Wondering if John William Ramsay Sladen b 1858 was an illegitimate son of this John snr? And THIS is the scandal? He is a private in his regiment not an officer as would be expected of a Maj Gen's son.
I suggest the Peshawar baptism might hold the key - try FIBIS....
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Previous post -
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=449707.0
ev
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Well found, ev. How annoying.....
FindMyPast have the baptism of the 1860 son of the [at that time] Captain John Ramsay Sladen referred to in reply #4 - mother Maria Ann.
Who did John William Frank Ramsay Sladen name as his father on his marriage to Ellen in 1884?
I have a feeling 2 families are being mixed up here.... :-\
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Found this online -
466. John William Ramsey15 SLADEN (387.William14, 299.Ramsey13, 218.John12, 172.John11, 142.John10, 101.Benjamin9, 82.Benjamin8, 64.Thomas7, 37.William6, 14.Robert5, 5.Thomas4, 3.Robert3, 2.John2, 1.Henry1) was born 19 June 1858. He was the son of William Dare SLADEN and Anne Arethusa RYVES. He married Ellen KEANE 19 June 1884. She was born in Tralee, Kerry, Ireland, the daughter of Patrick KEANE.
ISSUE:
528. m I.William Dare SLADEN, born 22 February 1887.
529. m ii.Charles Henry Colebrooke SLADEN, born 25 October 1895, died 18 April 1918 in Givenchy.
+ 530. m iii.John Ramsey Saint Barbe SLADEN, born 10 October 1898.
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sladden/3/
Don't know how accurate any of that is :-\
The 1884 marriage certificate should have both sets of parents named.
ev
Added -
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1769061/SLADEN,%20CHARLES%20HENRY%20COLEBROOKE
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John Sladen a warehouse porter in 1891?
John R Sladen 32 warehouse porter, b. British Subject, East Indies
Ellen M Sladen 32 b. Ireland
William D Sladen 4 b. Perth
Gladys L Sladen 2 b. Perth
Address: 54 Scott St, Glasgow/ St Rollox
Another birth that year https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTF3-97M
Given the confusion, sladen keane, hard to be more definitive without the marriage details from Perth that you mention. Scottish marriage certs, sure you know, include full details on names of father and mother for bride and groom.
Monica :)
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And the big family, still in Glasgow, in 1901:
John R Sladen 42 Waiter Central Police Office b. epot indies, Bengal (as transcribed)
Ellen M Sladen 42 b. Ireland, lomesich (as transcribed)
William Sladen 14
Gladys Sladen 12
Ella Sladen 9
Alice Sladen 4
Ethel Sladen 7
Charles Sladen 5
John Sladen 2
Address: 282, Buchanan St., Glasgow/St Rollox
Monica
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There is a death entry showing on Scotlands People for a John William Sladen born c. 1859, in the Glasgow area after 1911 (sorry, haven't narrowed down years further on the search screen).
The 1911 census image is only available as original image on Scotlands People.
Monica
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WOW!!
A bit overwhelmed with all this help and info, thank you all.
John's parents were William Dare Sladen and Annie Sladen (nee Ryves) as shown on the marriage certificate. Both parents were deceased by this time, 1884. William's Rank or Profession is recorded as "soldier"
Ellen's parents were Patrick Keane, a farmer and deceased by this time, and Mary Keane nee Welsh
John and Ellen are both aged 26 on the certificate
From various snippets I have seen around the internet, it would appear Ellen was born in Tralee, in Ireland, though the 1901 census for Glasgow would appear otherwise. I managed to get a look at that 1901 census via Scotland's People - "Where Born" for John and Ellen are partly crossed through, though for John it can be seen that it is Bengal, East Indies. Ellens entry has been scored through, though Ireland is legible - MonicaL has already posted this info and has seen it transcribed as "lomesich" ??
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I managed to get a look at that 1901 census via Scotland's People - "Where Born" for John and Ellen are partly crossed through, though for John it can be seen that it is Bengal, East Indies. Ellens entry has been scored through, though Ireland is legible - MonicaL has already posted this info and has seen it transcribed as "lomesich" ???
Possibly Limerick?
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This may be of interest...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=737905.0
£1 for 1 month
Annie
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That sounds a great offer, Annie :)
.... I managed to get a look at that 1901 census via Scotland's People - "Where Born" for John and Ellen are partly crossed through, though for John it can be seen that it is Bengal, East Indies. Ellens entry has been scored through, though Ireland is legible
You can contact SP and request an enhance scan for the section you have a problem reading. They are very quick to respond to this type of request. See www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210
Monica
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Henry St Barbe Ramsay Sladen born Jan 1 1863, bap May 21 1863 at Morar near Gwalior, parents William Dare sladen of H.M 81st and Annie Sladen
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William Dare Sladen, Lieut 81st Reg, age 27 married Arethusa Ann Ryves, age 15 at Allahabad (Mehan Meer?) on Oct 6 1856. Witnesses included Thomas I Ryves.
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Marriage -
William Dare Sladen, of full age, widower, late Capt of 81st Reg to Sarah Jane Whittingham, age 15 years, on 17 Mar 1870. Fathers Ramsay Sladen and George Whittingham
(Note - I saw somewhere that William had transferred to the 101st from the 81st, resigning shortly after?)
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Ramsay Cunliffe Sladen born Madras, 1 Oct 1827, bap 15 May 1828, St Mary's Madras, parents Ramsay Sladen Esq, Surgeon and Emma his wife