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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Purple Badger on Sunday 03 January 16 18:39 GMT (UK)

Title: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: Purple Badger on Sunday 03 January 16 18:39 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

Happy New Year. The festive break has allowed me a little time to work on a friend's tree and I have hit a stumbling block. No change there!!!

I am trying to trace the marriage of Henry Glew (b1848 Rogate) to Caroline. The first child of theirs I can trace was William Glew born 1876 so marriage likely to be shortly before then. 

I can trace the family on the census in the Portsmouth area 1881 onwards. Below is an extract of 1901s census to give you some additional details.


RG13/997/75 p 17 Portsea

Henry Glew   52
Caroline Glew wife 47 b Bristol
William Glew   22
James Glew   15
Charles Glew   13
Florence Glew   11
Arthur Glew   8
Elsie G Glew   2

Caroline's maiden name may be King. Her son Arthur ended up in Canada and her maiden name is listed as King on his Canadian death record.

Can anyone help me find this marriage?

Many Thanks,

S  :)
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 January 16 19:00 GMT (UK)
Caroline is 52 in 1911

Have you bought one of the childrens birth certs to confirm her maiden name?
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 January 16 19:15 GMT (UK)
Have a look at this 1861 entry for Chalton Hampshire

Henry King Shott 63 b Chalton
Caroline Shott   24 dtr ditto
Mary Ann Shott   3 g/dtr ditto
Henry Glew    22 b Harting Sussex - lodger
John Voller   24 b Chalton - lodger
RG9 Piece 699 Folio 6 Page 8
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: antiquesam on Monday 04 January 16 07:07 GMT (UK)
I'll try and find the marriage in the Portsmouth Records Office sometime this week.
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 04 January 16 08:24 GMT (UK)
The 1891 census for the couple RG12/866 f106 p15 has Henry's mother in law as Harriet Gas... (transcribed as Gassen) age 76 born Selbourne, Hampshire  :-\
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 04 January 16 14:32 GMT (UK)
The 1891 census for the couple RG12/866 f106 p15 has Henry's mother in law as Harriet Gas... (transcribed as Gassen) age 76 born Selbourne, Hampshire  :-\

And Caroline is 33 in 1891, so a bit of variation in year of birth !
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: sgf28 on Monday 04 January 16 15:59 GMT (UK)
I think Harriet, the mother in law, maybe Henry's mother ??? Looking at 1861 Census Rake, Rogate, Midhurst, Sussex there is a Harriet Glew, born 1812, Selbourne living with Henry Glew born 1849, Rogate, Sussex.

RG09/628/80/2
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: sgf28 on Monday 04 January 16 16:09 GMT (UK)
Harriet Glue is on 1871 Census 10 Jacob Street, Portsea as a housekeeper to a Samuel Gosden. Findmypast has transcribed 1891 Census Henry Glew's mother in law as Harriet Gosden.
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 04 January 16 17:12 GMT (UK)
Harriet also on 1851 census married to Thomas Glue (sic) quite a lot older than her. There are Draper children in the household described as sons and daughters in law, but would actually be step children to Thomas. Harriet Draper married Thomas Glue in 1844, so Henry would be her child not step child.
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: [Ray] on Monday 04 January 16 18:57 GMT (UK)

Throwing rubbish into the air . . . . .

Harriett Gosden (transcription) is noted as M-in-law
 
 Marriages 1885 Dec Rye 2b 15
 Gasson     Caroline
 Gassow     Caroline
 Grisbrook     Annie Jane
 Ripley     Rebecca           (Eastbourne 2b  15)
 SWAINE     William Wood
 TICEHURST     Bernard
 
 Assuming Gasson / Gassow is the same lady = 3x brides + 2x grooms
 Is Henry Glew the missing groom?
 
R
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 04 January 16 19:32 GMT (UK)
Quote
Is Henry Glew the missing groom?

Sadly no - GRO index checked but no cross match
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: [Ray] on Monday 04 January 16 20:07 GMT (UK)
Hi CaroleW

"Precisely".

Mis-transcription (or non-transcription) of 1, or more, of the reg elements?
It's not as if the problem is unknown/hasn't occurred before.


Ray

(Happy New Year)




Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 04 January 16 20:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Ray

I really hoped there would be a match but am running out of ideas.  I wondered if the Henry King Shott I found was actually Kingshott but I can't  find anything earlier to confirm or otherwise so am giving up

Happy New Year to you to
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 04 January 16 20:35 GMT (UK)
William W Swaine looks to have married the Annie J, Bernard Ticehurst looks to have married the Caroline b Rye in 1891 census.
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: [Ray] on Tuesday 05 January 16 07:52 GMT (UK)


Thanks for checking Ticehurst, I was going to do that this morning.

. . . . . and for completeness, eliminating

Marriages Dec 1885 Eastbourne 2b 150
 Bird     Thomas
 Davis     William
 Ripley     Rebecca (indexed twice)
 Rowmand     Kate
 

Ray
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: antiquesam on Tuesday 05 January 16 11:32 GMT (UK)
If this helps.
George Henry Glew 20 bachelor, labourer, of Friary, Portsmouth. Father Herman(?) Glew gunner RMA married Eliza Crips 18 spinster of Kings Terrace Portsmouth. Father John Crips seaman RN in St. Mary's Church Portsmouth on 7th June 1869. Sorry can't read the witnesses names Jane Nathan possibly.
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 05 January 16 12:53 GMT (UK)
If this helps.
George Henry Glew 20 bachelor, labourer, of Friary, Portsmouth. Father Herman(?) Glew gunner RMA married Eliza Crips 18 spinster of Kings Terrace Portsmouth. Father John Crips seaman RN in St. Mary's Church Portsmouth on 7th June 1869. Sorry can't read the witnesses names Jane Nathan possibly.

It looks like this couple living in Gloucester street Portsmouth in 1871. On enumerator's form as Glue. In the household two people with surname Corps, listed as brother and sister in law. This George Glue/ Glue was born in Portsmouth so not likely to be closely related.


Piece number 1142 Folio 60 Page number 15
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: antiquesam on Tuesday 05 January 16 16:58 GMT (UK)
Sorry but the OP was attempting to trace a Glew marriage in the relevant timescale and assumed a Portsmouth marriage. I've merely searched all the marriages in the Portsmouth Diocese, Parish Church and Methodist churches and this is the only 'Glew' marriage.
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 05 January 16 17:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Ray

I really hoped there would be a match but am running out of ideas.  I wondered if the Henry King Shott I found was actually Kingshott but I can't  find anything earlier to confirm or otherwise so am giving up

Happy New Year

Happy New Year  :)

Henry is Kinchot in 1851 with wife Ann no daughter Caroline, she is probably working away from home somewhere. 

I think OP may have to put us out of our misery and get one of the childrens birth certificates as you suggested ;D

Rosie

Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 05 January 16 20:17 GMT (UK)
Have a look at this 1861 entry for Chalton Hampshire

Henry King Shott 63 b Chalton
Caroline Shott   24 dtr ditto
Mary Ann Shott   3 g/dtr ditto
Henry Glew    22 b Harting Sussex - lodger
John Voller   24 b Chalton - lodger
RG9 Piece 699 Folio 6 Page 8

This Henry Glew was born in Harting so not the Rogate one we're looking for.

I think this is him in 1851 in Harting, son of John widower
Piece 1654, Folio 474, Page 28

In 1841 still in Harting, looks like his mother is Mary
Piece 1101, Book 4, Folio 17, Page 1


Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 06 January 16 08:18 GMT (UK)
I am gradually coming to the conclusion that for some reason or other Henry and Caroline never married. Henry died in 1902, so I think Caroline (as a widow) would not need to answer the question about years married and numbers of children on the 1911 census. But she did. The number of children born and those died match with what I have found (and surmised) from Portsea / Portsmouth reg district bmds. So I think what she has stated is accurate there. But what does she state for number of years married? !!

From 1881, 1891 and 1901 census records we have 10 known children.

Alfred Henry J   Q4 1876   2b 492            
William Thomas   Q2 1879   2b 518            
Elizabeth Harriet Q4 1880  2b 488 died age 0 Q3 1881 2b 267
Frederick   Q2 1882   2b 524            
James      Q3 1885 2b 440               
Charles      Q2 1887 2b 479   died age 20 Q3 1909 2b 245
Florence   Q2 1889 2b 527            
Ernest Norman   Q4 1890 2b 443   died age 0 Q2 1891 2b 363
Arthur      Q2 1892 2b 488            
Elsie Gertrude   Q3 1898   2b 517   

Three had died before 1911.
By eliminating other births in Portsea either by belonging to other Glew families or too close to a known child of Henry and Caroline, I come up with only three more who were born and died between censuses. These seem the strongest possibilities for the "missing" children

Edith Ellen Q1 1878 2b 529 died age 0 Q4 1878  2b 316
Thomas   Q2 1884 2b 555   died age 2 Q2 1886 2b 297
Nellie Caroline   Q1 1895 2b 514 died age 1 Q3 1896 2b 317

So what do we know about Caroline? Censuses and age at death put her year of birth between 1854 and 1858. She was most likely born in Bristol although 1881 has Littleton Sussex (abbreviation for Littlehampton perhaps?). She would have had her first child at the age of 18 - 22 depending on her actual age. Likely to be under 21 when she got together with Henry, possibly parental consent was refused for them to marry and they never got round to it after she turned 21.
Why would a girl of her age have come from Bristol to Portsmouth? I would have thought Bristol would have had plenty of opportunities for a girl to work, or if not she might move to London. Bristol and Portsmouth are both seaports, perhaps her father was a sailor?
Possibility her maiden name is King - information from her son Arthur's death record in Canada. If the informant had Arthur's birth certificate this should be accurate, but if the informant was just vaguely remembering something he / she was told a long time before - who knows?
 

Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 06 January 16 08:43 GMT (UK)
I've just found Arthur's death cert on family search. He died in a hospital and the informant was a hospital official. He states information taken from " D O file". I don't know what file it refers to, but possibly some official record that Arthur would have originally supplied the information for. Arthur left for Canada, via Portland, Maine USA in 1908 when he was just 16. He is listed as a farm hand, travelling 3rd class with a lot of other teenage boys also farm hands.
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: sgf28 on Wednesday 06 January 16 08:55 GMT (UK)
Not the marriage something a bit different:

Portsmouth Evening News 23rd September 1897

Abusive Language: Caroline Glew of 15 Central Street, Landport summoned Emily Isaacs of 49 St Johns Road for using abusive words towards her on the 13th inst. Complainant alleged that the defendant banged at her door and when it was opened used bad language. Rebutting evidence was given and the Magistrate dismissed the case. :
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: sgf28 on Wednesday 06 January 16 11:31 GMT (UK)
Can anoyne find Henry Glew on 1871 Census?

Maybe he is in the military, have found one that may be a possible:

1202 Private Henry Glue
28th (North Gloucestershire) Regiment of Foot
HQ location Gibraltar
Year    1871

He later gets discharged in 22nd September1876.

Maybe thats the reason we are struggling to find a marriage, it could have taken place abroad :-\
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 06 January 16 11:38 GMT (UK)
Not found him in 1871, tried all sorts of searches.

The army does sound a very strong possibility. If it was him and he was discharged in Sept 1876, that's just before his first child is born (reg Q4 1876).
Title: Re: Help finding Marriage for Henry GLEW
Post by: Purple Badger on Wednesday 20 January 16 17:06 GMT (UK)
WOW... just WOW! I normally get an email if anyone has commented on the thread. I didn't get one and have been busy over Christmas so checked on the off chance..... and am blown away with the work people have put in! Thank you all so much  :) :) ;D

It will take me  a while to go through everything but there is a few things I can help with.

My elderly friend (who I am doing this for) believes there might have been a military link with her Grandfather Henry Glew.

Arthur Glew went into a Banardo's Home for boys when his Father died. Caroline supposedly had health problems. It was Barnardo's that shipped him out to Canada.

Harriett Godson appears to be Henry Glew's Mother not Caroline's Mother as the 1891 census appears to imply.