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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Completed Requests => Topic started by: Iasquith on Friday 08 January 16 15:45 GMT (UK)
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Hello there and thanks in advance to anyone who could help me in discovering the parentage of my Grandmother Gladys Clough 1906-1979 of the Bradford area with family reportedly from Holmefirth with a possible connection to Nottingham.
Gladys married Howard Haigh 1896-1946 and had a daughter Doreen , my mother, and later married Arthur Frederick kershaw in 1957.
My mothers says grandma had an older brother called Norman who died in his late teens.Grandma always became emotional when quizzed about her parents and was never spoke of this even to her only child.
This is the only branch of my family where iv'e come up against a 'brick wall'
Thanks again Ian.
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Hi and a warm welcome to Rootschat
Here is her birth
Jul/Aug/Sep 1906
Bradford
Ref 9b 16
Gladys CLough
A copy of her birth cert will tell you who her parents were, and her mothers maiden name.
Or you may be able to find her on 1911 census with her family - sorry look ups for that census aren't allowed. But I think you will find it helpful.
HAve you got either of her marriage certs? Who does she name as her father?
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Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1904
Bradford
9b 44
Edith Mary Clark / William Clough
Oct/Nov/Dec 1909
Bradford
9b 261
Edith Mary Clough / Henry Hall
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Death
Sep 1932
Bradford
ref 9b 186
Norman Clough
age 27
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
There is another possible marriage for Gladys' parents -
q3 1904, Bradford
Vol 9b Page 18
On this page is a Frederick Melbourne Clough and an Edith Mary Firth.
Frederick Melbourne Clough (age 29) died q2 1908, Bradford
Vol 9b Page 43
As Liz has previously said you need to purchase Gladys' birth cert or her marriage cert in the hope she names her father.
JJ
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Marriage Bradford j/a/s 1904 Frederick Melbourne Clough and Edith Mary Firth, 1908 death Bradford Frederick Melbourne Clough 1909 marriage Bradford Edith Mary Clough and Henry Hall
Hope this helps Tony
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That's a better one, Jen. I couldn't find a death for William Clough, whereas you have for Fredk.
(we seem to be working on all the same threads today, Jen!!)
But Gladys's birth cert should confirm for definite.
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(we seem to be working on all the same threads today, Jen!!)
:) :) :)
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Thanks Lizdb, yes that record of her birth is as far as I got and I dont have any certificates to refer to.
Oh just read some more posts while I was typing yes now thing are starting to lead somewhere my mother said someone had a name' Frederick melbourne ' also the surname' Firth' was mentioned by Gran.
Thanks so much everyone what a response !
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It is looking as if Gran's parents were Frederick Melbourne Clough and Edith Mary Firth isn't it?
But her Dad died when she was little, so maybe that is why she was emotional about it, aswell as losing her brother young too.
To go back any further I think you really will need to get their marriage cert from 1904 to see who they name as their fathers.
I cant immediately see a birth for a Frederick Melbourne Clough.
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Yes Lizdb I think my Gran had a rough time of her early years really. Just an update really.
I called my mother last night with the new, clarified names of her grandparents and great, great grandparents at least from one side, as I was able to discover with your help here on the forum needles to say it was a revelation for her also.
So Frederick Melbourne Clough was Gladys's father along with Edith mary Firth (Mother) Gladys was only 2 yrs. When her father died so probably didn't recall anything and Edith married Again to Henry Hall b. 1883 born in Sherwood Nottingham As Tonyfebruary stated. I can't find any record of what happened to Henry or anything about his family in Notts.
Edith, Gladys's mum died in 1921 so she would have been around 14 or 15 yrs.at the time I dont know if Gladys continued living with her step father Henry and he died or returned to Notts. But at some stage my mother informs me that Gladys went to live with her aunt Ethel Speed (was Firth) Edith's sister 1880-1959 and husband Charles Speed 1876-1943 this information suggests that she would have still been quite young at the time
My mother and I are now wondering if Norman Clough who died as a teenager of whom Gran talked about could have been in fact a step brother that came together with mr Hall ?
A lot to digest I know :)
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There is a birth registration
Norman Clough
1905 Apr 1/4
Bradford
9b 22
Regards Carolanne
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And I found a likely death at reply #3 - not a teenager but still a young death.
Census suggests Norman was from the Clough marriage
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Hello there I'm trying to find out what happened to my great grandmothers second husband Henry Hall 1883 from Sherwood, Notts. He married Edith mary Firth (Clough, maiden) in 1908 in Bradford Yorkshire and presumably settled there.
I can't find any death nor birth record of Henry only the marriage. There also is a possibility of him bringing a son with him Norman who died in his teenage years.Thanks very much for any information on his family or any other facts regarding my relatives. Ian.
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Hi
Do you have a copy of the 1908 marriage cert showing Henry's fathers name & occupation? There are 1891 and 1901 entries with more than one possible match
There also is a possibility of him bringing a son with him Norman who died in his teenage years.
Have you found Henry & Edith on the 1911 census as I think that will answer the above for you?
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He married Edith mary Firth (Clough, maiden) in 1908
The marriage was in 1909 www.freebmd.org.uk
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Have you considered whether Henry may have died in WW1?
Presume the 1914 marriage of Edith M Hall to Ernest Firth is the right one so Henry must have died between 1911-1914
If you can't find a death on freebmd - WW1 is the next possibility www.cwgc.org
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Thanks lizdb and carolanne I think the norman of 1932 would be two late. After chatting with my mother she says that Gladys told of a brother who have been approx 19 yrs having died of pneumonia whilst she was still a little girl.
There is also a said photograph of a young man in an army uniform with Norman written on it ,although as far as the story goes he didn't die in the 1st WW instead he would have died after failing to dry himself well post swimming and sat in wet clothes and subsequently perished as a result.
Regards.
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Thanks carolW, no I don't have a copy of the marriage certs. looked for edith and henry on 1911 cen. And could'nt find anything . Thanks for correcting the marriage date .before marrying henry edith's maiden name was Firth i dont know if she would have married into the same family again ? I suppose it's possible. Looked up war records but dont give details of next of kin addresses ect. Regards.
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looked for edith and henry on 1911 cen. And could'nt find anything .
I found them with no problem - correctly spelt and living in Yorkshire. Rootschat does not allow 1911 details due to copyright restrictions. Suggest you search for Norman Clough b Bradford 1906 instead
before marrying henry edith's maiden name was Firth
No it wasn't - did you lookup either of the 2 marriages on freebmd?
Clough married Hall
Hall married Firth
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More about this family here
topics merged
thought it sounded familiar
(What confuses me is how you know Henry Halls birthplace etc without having seen the 1911!!!)
I thought census and birth reg had confirmed (as far as is pos without actually getting birth cert) than Norman was a Clough, therefore Ediths from first marriage along with Gladys
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Hi Lasquith
Please see this thread re: duplicate posts
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738845.0
Until you purchase one or other of the Clough birth certs you cannot say with any certainty who the parents were
You need to buy a copy of the marriage cert as well
I will ask the moderator to merge this post with your other one
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There are some military records that could possibly be Henry's:
Henry Hall
Birth date 10 Sep 1883
Place of birth:Sherwood Nottinghamshire
Occupation:Electrician
Attested: 22 Apr 1915 Royal Airforce
Service number: 223180
Says his first wife died Bradford City Hospital 30th March 1921
2nd marriage: 18th August 1921, no name given
Mother named as next of kin: Mrs S Hall, 13 Cooper St, Notts.
Discharged: 24th November 1921
Address on discharge: Primrose Villas, Langside, East Linton Scotland
Archive reference: AIR 79/2010
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That 1921 death for wife ties up - as looking at death index it is indeed for an Edith M Hall .
So this seems to be him alright.
Have a birthdate now, and that mums initial is S, and that he was in Scotland post war
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You really do need his marriage cert to Edith, so find out his father's name.
There is this possible for him on 1891, but without confirming fathers name it is little more than a guess
Healy Street Nottingham
Ernest Augustus HAll 41 commission agent
Sarah 36
Henry 7
Lola ?? 5
Ethel Alice 3
Elizabeth 1 all bn Nottingham
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There is no mention of any children on the records.
The first marriage date is given as 7th December 1911, Bradford, Bradford but there is a red line thought it.
The second marriage looks to have taken place in Prestonkirk, Scotland.
Henry had seen previous military service: 1899-1907 Royal Navy
Royal Fleet Reserve 1909-1912
Royal Fleet Reserve 1913-December 1914
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You are in luck
Following Sarah HAll (wife of Ernest Augustus) through the censuses, after she is widowed, leads us to find her at Cooper Street. Which is the address given for the next of kin in Henry military papers.
So - seems that is the right one I found in 1891!
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Transcript by Nottinghamshire FHS via FindMyPast
Henry Hall born 10 September 1883, baptised 23 September 1883 - St Barnabas (RC), Nottingham. Father Henry Ernest Augustus Hall, mother Sarah Osborne.
Sorry for the slip :-[
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Is this Ernest Augustus Hall - from the same source:
St Mary, Nottingham (Anglican) - 18 April 1850 - William and Eliza Hall of Fishergate.
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Same source again:
St Barnabas, Nottingham (RC) - 16 November 1873 - Ernest Augustus Hall and Sarah Osborne. No further information in the transcript.
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Henry married Mary Marshall Lawrie. He was an electrician/sergeant, Royal Air Force. Marriage certificate says he was a widower. His parents: Ernest Augustine Hall, deceased and Sarah maiden name Osborne.
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Everyone thanks again sorry I'm rather new to these search programs BMD ect.and as such I'm still learning the correct fields to fill in for the desired result i did get a match for a year after edith married frederick ? that would fit .Only that Norman would only be a year older than Gladys clough born 1906-1979 and my mother seems to think he was quite a bit older but if fred and edith married in1904 a Norman is possible.
Yes, sorry , Edith was 'Clough' when she married henry hall and 'Firth' before marrying Fred Clough, the only connection between Edith and Fred I was able to 'look up' on Familysearch.round in circles I'm afraid !
Just editing my response after seeing the replies some interesting stuff here indeed!
I should clarify that the source of my info on Henry being from 'sherwood' and the birth date was in fact from another members' tree on my heritage site and I couldn't vouch on its veracity but it did fit in with word of mouth evidence from my family. Hopefully it gives more flexibility to the theories of who was Henry and Norman and what happened? Regards Ian
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I think that you have to see the 1911 census entry for Henry, Edith Mary etc. in order to appreciate our responses. If you live in England then the majority of libraries and Archives have access to Ancestry and/or FindMyPast, for free.
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No I live in Brazil :)