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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: tedscout on Sunday 10 January 16 10:39 GMT (UK)
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Melbourne Victoria 31st January 1891 James Dansey was born to Isabella nee Robinson aged 22 and James Dansey Shipping Agent, aged 35. Both parents are from Kiama NSW. (from birth cert)
Isabella was born in Kiama NSW in 1868 her father was William Robinson and mother was Frances Morrow (also have source)
The only marriage I can find is Isabella M Robinson to Robert H Vance in 1889. 3 years earlier than James Dansey was born.
Isabella and Robert had 3 children that I can find, Lillian in 1891, Winifred in 1994 and Henry in 1896.
Were there 2 Isabella Robinsons? Did she have a child before she married? or did the registrar make a big mistake?
I am researching this for a friend from church who thinks his great grandfather is illegitimate. I am at a loss can anyone please help
thank you for reading and if you can help thanks in advance
God Bless, love Ted
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The only marriage I can find is Isabella M Robinson to Robert H Vance in 1889. 3 years earlier than James Dansey was born.
To clarify. James was born 1892. 1891 I see now.
Isabella and Robert had 3 children that I can find, Lillian in 1891, Winifred in 1994 and Henry in 1896.
God Bless, love Ted
If James was born January 1891 then I cant see a link between these other 3 children , or at least Lillian
If I was searching for a link from Dansey - I would search Dauntsey as well. Or Dance at a stretch -Vance is ok but more a stretch for me. I would look for spelling variations first before I extended to ( what I see as ) different names altogether :)
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The only marriage I can find is Isabella M Robinson to Robert H Vance in 1889. 3 years earlier than James Dansey was born.
You can look up the deaths and obits for this couple. They had one son named Harry and three daughters.
Isabella was born in Kiama NSW in 1868 her father was William Robinson and mother was Frances Morrow (also have source)
That Isabella is the one that married Robert Henry VANCE.
The birth cert of James DANSEY must say when and where his parents were married?
Debra :)
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Thankyou for your help and quick response. James Danseys birth says that they were married on 11 Feb 1890 new south wales. There is something written underneath but hubby and I cannot read it. It is a photo copy and we cant find a magnifying glass.
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If James is the one who married Muriel Margaret BRENNAN in Tasmania at the Church of the Holy Redeemer in Deloraine then this article about the Christian Brothers College in Melbourne may also be him:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/169879227
I would recommend that you contact the Catholic Archives in Victoria as he may have been in their care from birth. When he married did he know his parents' names?
Debra :)
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There is no marriage in NSW for this couple or if there was the registration did not reach the NSW registry.
Ted a few questions about the cert?
*What was the full address of James' birth?
*Who registered the birth?
*Was the birth registered in the required period?
I find it most odd to have Both parents are from Kiama NSW. (from birth cert) written on a birth certificate. Only the name, age, occupation and place of birth of the father and name, age, maiden name and place of birth for the mother is required.
*Where on the certificate are the words 'both parents are from Kiama NSW' written?
Isabella was born in Kiama NSW in 1868 her father was William Robinson and mother was Frances Morrow (also have source)
*How do you know this is your Isabella's correct birth and what is your source?
Birth
10514/1868
ROBINSON Isabella M
Father William Mother Frances
District Kiama
and as Deb has mentioned this family, this is her death
16921/1923
VANCE Isabella M
Father William Mother Frances
District Rockdale
The are many public online trees about this family.
There is another birth in NSW around the same time.
12201/1867
ROBINSON Isabella
Father William Mother Mary A
District Moulamein
*Could you scan and attach James' 1891 birth certificate please :)
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
Thank you for wading in on this great debate. In the daylight I can read the birth certificate better.
When and Where born: 31 January 1891, William Street, South Yarra, ?????, City of Melbourne County Bourke.
Name: James, not present
Father: James Dansey shipping agent 35 New South Wales
Where and when married: 11 February 1890 New South Wales no previous issue
Mother: Isabella Dansey, formally Robinson 22 New South Wales
Informant: Margaret ????? Authorised agent Carlton, after ???? time made as by law required.
Witnesses: Dr ???? Miss, Cliffe, not any
Registered 6 April 1891 South Yarra
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Sorry both parents born Kiama is not from the birth certificate it is from a photocopy of the family bible (sorry I should have been more clear - Im getting rusty I haven't done this for so long)
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Informant: Margaret ????? Authorised agent Carlton, after ???? time made as by law required.
What was the date of the registration?
Cando
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Just because information is entered in a family bible doesn't make it correct. When and who entered the information?
According to an online tree and her obiturary and Isabella Margaret VANCE's nee ROBINSON, was born, lived and died at Kiama, her first child was Lily was born in 16 Dec 1891.
We need some more recent information eg James DANSEY's born 1891, marriage certificate.
Cando
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6th April 1891
The person I am helping is away for 3 days. I am not sure if he is the James Dansey who married Muriel in Tasmania in 1916.
I don't think the Isabella in Kiama can be the same woman if she was having children in Kiama NSW and the same year in Victoria. What do you think?
Although James was born in January 1891 and Lillian was born in December 1891. I suppose she could have been sent to Victoria to have James if he was illegitimate.
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So born 31 Jan 1891 and not registered until 6 Apr 1891 by an authorized person. I wonder in what capacity this person had the authority to register a birth?
We have no way of knowing if the date of birth on the registration was accurate.
Really need to see the name to attempt to identify this authorized person.
And
We need some more recent information eg James DANSEY's born 1891, marriage certificate.
Cando
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Ted we really need to know more about the information in the family bible.
I wonder if James DANSEY born 1891 was baptised?
Cando
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It is A3 and I only have an A4 scanner. I hope you can read it it is the one with the red star next to it
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I am not sure about baptism. My friend only has a photocopy of the bible with the details. He isn't sure how accurate it is.
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Hi everyone,
Thought I'd update you on our progress (or lack of it). My friend is back and today has ordered the Tasmanian marriage certificate of James DANSEY and Muriel Margaret BRENNAN. (Wow they are so much more expensive than Victorian ones and the paperwork sucks).
Yes James did go the Christian Brothers Collage. Thank you Dundee.
Ignore any information from the family bible it was written by my friend's cousin so of no historical value what so ever.
Max told me a story that his grandfather James told him about never knowing his parents. In Max's words "He received a gold sovereign from his mother and one from his father and they left him in Melbourne and he never saw them again".
I will be able to tell you more when the marriage certificate arrives.
Thank you everyone for your help, Cando as usual you make me question everything and I am so glad you do - keep up the good work.
Cheers, Ted.
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Marriage in TAS:
James DANSEY m. Muriel Margaret BRENNAN 20/01/1916 DELORAINE #58
First child registered in VIC before 1920:
Dudley Michl DANSEY b. 1917 S YARRA #7396
Father: Jas
Mother: Marg Muriel BRENNAN
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Dudley Michael DANSEY appears on ERolls in VIC in the early 1940's then over to TAS by 1949 & back to VIC by 1958.
He died 27 Aug, 1996 & was cremated at Fawkner Memorial Park:
http://www.gmct.com.au/deceased-search/
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VANCE Robert Henry Death notice 07NOV1928 Death late of Chatswood, formerly of Kiama Sydney Morning Herald 08NOV1928
VANCE Isabella Margaret Death notice 24OCT1923 at Rockdale, late of Kiama Sydney Morning Herald 24OCT1923
http://ryersonindex.net/search.php
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VANCE.-At the residence of her cousin, Mr. Freeborn,
Valetta, Harrow-road, Rockdale, Isabella Margaret,
beloved wife of Robert Henry Vance, of Kiama,
aged 53 years. At rest.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16101445?searchTerm=%22henry%20vance%22%20kiama&searchLimits=
VANCE.—The Funeral of the late ROBERT HENRY
VANCE, of Chatswood and late of Kiama will be leaving central station by 9.10 a m train for Methodist Church Kiama thence after service for Methodist
Church North Kiama
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16507702?searchTerm=%22henry%20vance%22%20kiama&searchLimits=
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Thank you Merlin and Whiteout.
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NSW BDM
12905/1899 VANCE VERA M ROBERT H ISABELLA M KIAMA
Is this another one?
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Isabella M Vance Obituary - no mention of a James
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/102049856?searchTerm=Vance%20Kiama&searchLimits=
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Thanks Whiteout,
Max, his wife Betty and I are now firmly convinced he was left in South Yarra after his birth, and his mother went home where ever that was. Poor little mite. I wonder who bought him up.
We now know he went to the Christian Brothers Collage in East Melbourne and from the Electoral roll he lived in South Yarra until he went to Deloraine in Tasmania to live (which is where his wife's family is from).
From all I have read about him today he turned into a wonderful man, and his grandson is a credit to him.
DNA testing might be the only thing that works on this one.
However I've been working on Max's grandmother's side of the family while waiting for the marriage certificate. Max will be very happy when he finds out his granddad owned a pub. LOL
Thanks for your help and care, cheers Ted
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Advocate 24 Aug 1938
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/91449232?
........obit Michael BRENNAN.....dau Mrs J DANSEY....
Advocate 12 Jan 1950
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/69209691?
...obit Mrs Frances BRENNAN....dau Mrs J DANSEY........
DANSEYs in hotels in Deloraine 1900 - 1954................
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We now know he went to the Christian Brothers Collage in East Melbourne...
CBC have archives of school records. Perhaps it might be of interest to contact them :)
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Thanks Wivenhoe, I printed those 2 obits off last night.
Merlin - I sent the CBC an email yesterday. I hope I get a reply but as it is school holidays it may take a few weeks.
Cheers, Thanks for your help, Ted
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Good morning.
Did the story/revelations continue?
Regards - Terry
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Hi all,
Ted, I am not sure if you are past this, but I read the information on the certificate as:
Margaret Shine
Authorised Agent
Carlton
After declaration made as by law required
Wondering if it is possible to find Margaret Shine on electoral rolls, newspapers or similar? I'm wondering if she was an agent for the Church? The child did after all end up in Catholic school. It seems unusual to me that a woman at the time is an 'authorised agent' unless for something like a church? Apologies if I am off base here, but wondering if finding her profession or more about her might help your cause?
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Have only just read through this today but, correct me if I am wrong, I can't see anything that confirms his birth as James Dansey. Could it simply be a name assigned to him by whatever organisation Margaret Shine was acting for when registering the birth and similarly with the parental names?
Pheno