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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: daftoldbat on Monday 11 January 16 20:06 GMT (UK)
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I have been undone by the 1939 census! Because of that, I have discovered that there were TWO Percy Brays born in Liskeard in July 1896 - one on July 12th and one on July 15th - and I have been building my family tree on the wrong one. The father of the one I need to trace was called Samuel, not William, as I have now and the information I can find on the censuses is ambiguous at best. Can only find the wrong Percy in BMD records, unless he was registered in 4q 1897 and not 4q 1896. Is there anyone out there who could possibly help?
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So is yours the one born on the 15th July and therefore not the one who was in the Navy?
How do you know that yours was born in Liskeard, the 1939 just gives where they were living then doesn't it?
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Percy Bray 3rd qtr 1896 Liskeard 5c 50
Percy Bray 3rd qtr 1897 Liskeard 5c 43
And also Percival John Bray born 3rd qtr 1898 Liskeard 5c 51
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from the opc database
Percy Bray bp 13 Dec 1899, son of Samuel & Clara of Liskeard, birth noted as 13 June 1897.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/person-search/
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I was about to suggest that one, Osprey
1901
RG13 Piece 2193 Folio 73 Page 35
Godfreys Court, Bay Tree Hill, Liskeard
Samuel Bray Head 29 General Carrier Bodmin, Cornwall
Carletta Bray Wife 31 Tywardreath, Cornwall
Frena Louisa Bray 8 Liskeard, Cornwall
Percy Bray 3 Liskeard, Cornwall
Fredck George Bray 1 Liskeard, Cornwall
Samuel Mafeking Bray 0 Liskeard, Cornwall
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someone has helpfully put on the opc database the birth cert details for Percy's sister Irene Louisa Bray which gives Clara's maiden name as Geach.
Samuel Mafeking Bray died in 1905
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Hi,
I can see baptisms for six children of Samuel & Carletta/Clara Bray on the Cornwall OPC in Liskeard as follows:
Samuel John Bray, bapt 13th April 1896, father a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Ap 13? P.
Emma Ethel Bray, bapt 3rd Aug 1897, father a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Private. Born May 9/96
Catherine Bray, bapt 4th Oct 1898, father a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Born Sep 28. Private.
Frederick George Bray, bapt 13th Dec 1899 (same date as Percy), father a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Born Oct 21st 1899.
Percy Bray, bapt 13th Dec 1899, father a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Born June 13th 1897.
William Heber Bray, bapt 22nd Jan 1903, father a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Born April 12th 1902. Transcriber Notes shows: P.
Irene Louisa Bray born 20th Feb 1893, father a general labourer residing at Godfrey's Court, Liskeard Borough.
Three burials in Liskeard for the family also:
Samuel John Bray (b1895?) buried in Liskeard on 17th Apr 1896 aged 19 months. Residence: Borough.
Emma Ethel Bray (b1896) buried in Liskeard on 8th Aug 1897 aged 15th months. Residence: Borough.
Samuel Mafeking Bray (b1901) buried in Liskeard on 23rd April 1905 age 4 years. Residence: Gut Lane. Burial noted as being on Easter Day.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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Hi,
A marriage on FreeBMD for Samuel Bray & Carletta/Clara Geach:
Bray, Samuel to Geach, Claretta Dawe; Dec Qtr 1899; Liskeard Reg Dist; Volume 5c Page 121.
The marriage is definitely 1899, it is not a typo. The marriage does not appear on the Cornwall OPC either.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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it looks like Clara Geach was first married to Edwin Dawe sept qtr 1882 Liskeard vol 5c pg 79 and is on the 1891 with Edwin & 5 children ref RG12/1813 folio 18 pg 10.
I haven't found Edwin & kids on the 1901 census but there seem to be more children baptised to Edwin & Clara between 1902 & 1907 in Menheniot.
??? ::)
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Hi,
Baptism for Samuel Mafeking Bray in Liskeard from Cornwall OPC:
Bray, Samuel Mafeking, bapt 4th April 1901, to Clara (no father's name shown) a labourer residing in Borough. Birth noted as: Born 18th Jan 1901. Transcriber Notes shows: P.
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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I haven't found Edwin & kids on the 1901 census but there seem to be more children baptised to Edwin & Clara between 1902 & 1907 in Menheniot.
Is this 1901 for Edward? Looks as if it might be a different Clara?
RG13; Piece: 2192; Folio: 30; Page: 6
Menheniot, Cornwall
Edward Dawe 42 Ag lab Menheniot, Cornwall
Clara Minear 38 housekeeper St Austell, Cornwal
Charles Dawe 12 son Bodmin, Cornwall
Clara C Minear 4/12 daughter Menheniot, Cornwall
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Thankyou, all of you, for the mass of information. I have come to the conclusion that the birth in 3q 1897 may be the correct one and have sent off for a copy of the birth cert. If he turns out to be the one I´m looking for, then it is a distinct possibility that his parents were Samuel and Claretta Dawe Geach - I have already noted the details from the 1901 and 1911 censuses (Claretta is missing from the latter) which show only Irene Louisa, Percy and Fred, so the other children are a huge bonus.
Percy was my grandfather, but I never met my father and only know from my long-deceased mother that both Percy and my father were born in Liskeard.
Thanks again for all your help.
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You also have an interesting situation here as well if the 1901 I gave you is correct for Edward Dawe and he was her first husband. Unless they divorced, she wasn't actually free to remarry in 1899! He was obviously living with his housekeeper and having children with her.
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Didn´t she marry Edwin, not Edward :)? In 1891 I can see that they were living in Broadoak with 5 children and I can´t find either Edwin or the children after 1891 - what happened to them? She married Samuel Bray in 1899 but then disappeared between 1901 and 1911. Perhaps she then married someone else and had yet another family :o She seems to have had a penchant for older men...
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I think the family that groom has given you for the 1901 is the correct one. In the 1891 census there's a 2 year old Christopher Charles Dawe baptised 1 Dec 1891 to Edwin & Carlotta, the same date as Samuel James, Harriet Mary & Anna Matilda were baptised. He appears as Charles in 1901.
In mar qtr 1902 Edwin Dawe married ref St Austell vol 5c pg 172 with one of the 2 females on the page being Clara Minear.
Haven't spotted the former Miss Geach as yet, but the variants of her first name aren't helping & no idea what surname she might be using.
::)
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That's what I was going on, osprey
Births Mar 1889
Dawe Christopher Charles
Bodmin 5c 73
He is the only child with Charles in their name born in Cornwall that year.
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There is a burial for a Clara Bray in Liskeard on 23/3/1921 aged 54, making her birth year 1867 which fits with Clara (Claretta) Geach´s in the censuses. It´s interesting that, in the 1911 census, Samuel Bray described himself as single and there´s no sign of Clara. Does anyone know an easy way to get into divorce records?
I know that living conditions at the time were dire, but Clara seems to have been very unlucky (?) with her children. Samuel James Dawe was buried in Bodmin 28/7/1892 aged 18 months; Samuel John Dawe in Liskeard on 12/10/1897 aged 17 months (note shows Bray); Catherine Dawe in Liskeard on 30/10/1898 aged 29 days; Emma Ethel Bray in Liskeard on 8/8/1897 aged 15 months and Samuel Mafeking on 23/4/1905 aged 4 years. There is also a burial for a William Aver Bray 1q/1905 aged 2½ years, which may or may not have been Clara´s William Heber.
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According to the National Archives:
In 1858 divorce law was introduced in England but divorce remained too expensive for most people until the 1920s.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorces-further-research/
So would they actually have been able to have afforded a divorce, or did they just separate and remarry (illegally)? I can imagine that may have happened quite a bit, especially if people moved away from an area where they were known.
Interesting that there is no Edward Dawe born 1860/61 in Cornwall, so did he change his name to Edward in an attempt to hide?
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There was an Edward Dawe born 1q/1858 in Liskeard, but as far as I can see, no Edwins before 1866.
In the 1891 Edwin gives his age as 35 (1856) and in 1901, as Edward, as 42 (1859). There is a Carlotta Geach in Tywardreath in 1881, with father James, but in 1871 she is shown as Charlotte, with parents James and Harriet. In 1879 James and Harriet had a son called Christopher Charles so this could be Carla/Carlotta/Claretta, naming one of her sons after her brother. I always thought that Marys and Janes were a problem to trace - you´d think Carlotta would be slightly easier, wouldn´t you?