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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: wdytya on Wednesday 13 January 16 13:56 GMT (UK)
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Just back from my local library where I tried to use their online family history search sites but I was not successful. I was looking for census records for a Morgan Lewis born 6 Feb 1877 in Abersychan. I know his parents were David Lewis 1834 and Margaret nee Watkins and Morgan married a Margaret Richards in Cardiff in 1905. I was hoping to find on the census records any of Morgan's siblings. He was in the Merchant Navy. Not sure when, so maybe missing off the census records as he was not at home..??
Any suggestions as to why I struggled to find him to tips for further searches?
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There are a couple of Morgan Lewis' born around 1877. One appears to have William as his father and another on the 1881 Census with parents David and Margaret Lewis.
1881 Census 3, Hedge Hill Row, Trevethin with Pontypool
David Lewis born 1834 Aberdare blast furnace worker, iron
Margaret, wife, born 1844 Aberdare
William, son, born 1873 Trevethin
Mary, daughter, born 1875 Trevethin
Morgan, son, born 1877 Trevethin
Watkin, son, born 1880 Trevethin
RG11/5252/79/16
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I searched using his name, year of birth plus two years and just the county he was born in, sometimes it helps not to use too narrow a search :)
Now to see where the family is on 1891 Census using Watkin as a starting point, hopefully a more unusual name to find, so not many of them :)
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Many thanks for the information you have found. You must be right that I put too much info into the search boxes. I will keep looking on this message in case you can find the family on any of the other census records.
Thanks again
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Hi,
1891 -
David Lewis wid 58
William Lewis 18
Mary Lewis 16
Morgan Lewis 14
Watkin Lewis 11
Jenkin Lewis 9 b. Trevethin, Monmouthshire
Kate Lewis 7 b. Nantyglo, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth Lewis 3 b. Blaina Salem Baptish Chapel, Monmouthshire
Living at 80 Hanill/Harriett? Street, Aberdare.
David is now a widower but there are more additions to the family :)
JJ
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1901 -
David Lewis 68
Mary Lewis 26
Watkin Lewis 22
Jenkin Lewis 19
Catherine Lewis 17
RG13 Piece 5034 Folio 84 Page 29, 80 Harriett Street, Aberdare.
JJ
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Any male of his age not found on the 1901 Census could be:
a. A Soldier in the Anglo-Boer War
b. In the Merchant or Royal Navy
c. Abroad somewhere
d. Hiding somewhere but this is unlikely
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Medal card for Morgan Lewis -
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8049539
JJ
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many thanks JJen & barryd for all the information you have managed to find. Looking at the information I have some questions if you do not mind?
On the 1891 census record it shows Elizabeth Lewis being born at Blaina Salem Baptist Chapel which seems strange, perhaps where she was baptised but not born? But why enter that on the census record?
On the medal card for Morgan Lewis, would he have received different medals if he was in the Merchant Navy? I guess he was at sea when the 1901 census was taken as he is not at home.
I will try and find David Lewis 1834 and his wife Margaret nee Watkins 1844 who married in 1870 in the district of Merthyr on the 1871 census. Given the advice from SGF22 to enter the minimum information in the search engine any suggestions. I will have to wait until next week to go to the library to access the FH sites so no rush.
Many thanks to you all
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For Merchant Navy records, see here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seaman-serving-1858-1917/
Unfortunately, there was no registration of merchant seamen between 1857 and 1913, and the records for 1913-1917 have not survived. :(
But there are some hints on that National Archives site I mentioned. Good luck!
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1871
David Lewis 37
Margaret Lewis 27
living in Aberdare but Margaret down as born Brecon, David in Aberdare
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On the 1891 census record it shows Elizabeth Lewis being born at Blaina Salem Baptist Chapel which seems strange, perhaps where she was baptised but not born? But why enter that on the census record?
The census image does not show as Salem Baptist. It is just Blaina. Not sure how the transcriber managed that!
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possible death for Margaret
Deaths Jun 1889 (>99%)
Lewis Margaret 47 Pontypool 11a 91
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On the 1891 census record it shows Elizabeth Lewis being born at Blaina Salem Baptist Chapel which seems strange, perhaps where she was baptised but not born? But why enter that on the census record?
The census image does not show as Salem Baptist. It is just Blaina. Not sure how the transcriber managed that!
Good spot :)
Had not looked at the actual image, the transcriber must have had an off day!!
JJ
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Findmypast have digitised Merchant Navy Seaman Records 1918-1941 (BT350) which are held by the National Archives and are available to view on their website. They look like Identity Certificates.
There is one for a Morgan Lewis born 5 Feb 1877 at (what looks like) Aberschan, Wales, which looks possible albeit the birth date is a day out and birthplace is spelt different. The digital image also includes his photograph and lists him as a Chief Engineer.
If you have access to FindMyPast, the image is here http://www.rootschat.com/links/01guf/.
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Thanks everyone for the added information. I do not have a subscription to Find my Past and so I use my local library where I can get access. Can you advise me where on the Find My Past site I can find the Merchant Navy Seamans records or do I just search on his name?
Regarding Margaret Lewis's death I am unsure if June 1889 in Pontypool is the correct record. She died before the 1891 census and the family were living in Aberdare and in 1901 which would be in the Merthyr registration district? There is a record for the March qtr 1891 age 46 merthyr 11a 432 that could fit?
On my visit to the library I will try and find David Lewis on the census records for 1861, 1851 and 1841 before he was married but expect it to be difficult as it is a common name. But if I find the records then hopefully he is with his parents who I have no details of.The records so far show him born in Aberdare so that is a start point.
Once again many thanks to everyone who is helping me.
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1871
David Lewis 37
Margaret Lewis 27
living in Aberdare but Margaret down as born Brecon, David in Aberdare
Are they living at their own home or possibly at their parents home?
Thanks
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I put that death in Pontypool district on because they were still in Monmouthshire when Elizabeth was born so it depends really when they moved back to Aberdare. Did they move back to be nearer David's family after Margaret's death?
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I put that death in Pontypool district on because they were still in Monmouthshire when Elizabeth was born so it depends really when they moved back to Aberdare. Did they move back to be nearer David's family after Margaret's death?
Yes that would sound feasible so the family in Aberdare could support the children. Was Blaina in the Pontypool registration district at that time?
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I am struggling to find which reg district Blaina actually belongs to. But Margaret could have been in hospital which could mean Pontypool. I know my grandfather's death is recorded as Pontypool whereas he actually lived in Abergavenny.
Clutching at straws really. The only way to find out would be to order a death certificate. The Merthyr one actually looks better for age.
1871 census - they are living in their own home. Margaret born Breconshire (Brecknockshire). I have now found that it was Hirwaun (could not read it before) which is half in Brecon & half in Aberdare! No wonder her birthplace changes in future census.
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I looked at the entry on FindMyPast suggested by Smudwhisk. Two important details. One, his discharge A number 136287 and Two, his first class engineers BOT certificate number 39502. Both these numbers are unique to him and are important to find other details of his sea going career. The ID number is of little consequence.
When you go to the library, hit the search option in the toolbar on FindMyPast, then go to Education and Work. Type his name and take the Merchant Navy and Maritime option in the sub category, hit apply filter, then search and bingo.
He should have records in the series BT139 and BT142 at the National Archive, as far as I am aware these are not online and you would need to visit Kew to view. These should give details of his entire sea going career.
The number 124326 is the official number of the ship SUTHERLAND GRANGE which he served on for most of 1919. Her 1919 Logbooks and Crew Agreements are available from here.
https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=124326
SUTHERLAND GRANGE ex GARDENIA was owned by the Houlder Line who traded mainly to South America. I know she made at least one voyage to the Plate in 1919.
His WW1 medal card is downloadable from here.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8049539
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I am struggling to find which reg district Blaina actually belongs to.
Bedwellty!
My mother was born in Blaina; that's how I know! ;D
Blaina was in the parish of Aberystruth
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Thanks everyone for the further information you have found and will follow these leads Asap.
On the way to the library to search for earlier census records for David Lewis (1841 1851 1861) I slipped on the icy pavements and sprained my ankle so my search will have to wait until I am back on my feet!!
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sorry to hear about your ankle. Let us know if there is anything else those of us with access to records can help you with
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Thanks Lansann, if you can find David Lewis on the 1841 1851 and 1861 census that would be great. In my previous posts I have provided all the information I know about David, his wife and family.
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Hi,
Sorry to hear that you have sprained your ankle in the icy conditions.
This 1861 is a possibility as David's father and nephew is called Jenkin. That name was given to 'your' David Lewis' child.
Jenkin Lewis 64 b. Merthyr-Tydfil, Glamorgan Stone Mason
Elizabeth Lewis 60 b. Brecon
David Lewis 28 b. Aberdare, Glamorgan Coal Miner
Jenkin Lewis Grandson 4 b. Aberdare, Glamorgan
RG9 Piece 4066 Folio 70 Page 41, 10 Mary Street, Aberdare.
My only reservation with the above is that David's occupation in 1871 is a fireman blast furnace where the above David is a coal miner.
JJ
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1851 for the above Lewis family -
Jenkin Lewis 54 Mason b. Glamorgan
Elizabeth Lewis 50 b. St Mary, Breconshire
Morgan Lewis 19 Collier b. Aberdare, Glamorgan
David Lewis 18 Collier b. Glamorgan
HO107 Piece 2460 Folio 78 Page 32, Aberdare.
Do you have David Lewis' marriage cert to Margaret which should give his father's name and occupation? This would then confirm or discount the above census.
JJ
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1841 -
Elias Lewis 47
Margaret Lewis 78
Jenkin Lewis 45
Elizabeth Lewis 40
Morgan Lewis 10
David Lewis 8
HO107 Piece 1415 Folio 13 Page 17
All born in county but not Elizabeth.
JJ
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Many thanks JJEN for your help in finding the records, much appreciated as always.
On the 1841 census does it state if Margaret 78 is a widow as the first named Elias 47 must be her son?
Were they all living at the same address in 1841 1851 1861?
Sorry to ask so many questions
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On the 1841 census there is never any reference to 'condition' (mar, wid, s or u). Elias could be Margaret's son but a baptism would need to be found to clarify this.
Abode -
1841 Ynesfach, Glamorgan
1851 - Nr Blaennant, Aberdare, Glamorgan
1861 - 10 Mary Street, Aberdare, Glamorgan
Hope the above answers your questions :)
JJ
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To clarify, the 1841 census simply shows:
Name, Sex, Age, Occupation (for some; not all), and whether born in county (Y or N).
No marital status; no relationship to head of household. ::)
Adult ages (i.e) those over 15 had their ages rounded down to a multiple of 5 years.
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Thanks JJEN and K Garrad for your informed replies. Everyones contribution has been so helpful in obtaining a "picture" of the family through the decades. I have now been reading about the Iron Foundry works at Abersychan and Merthyr and it is so very interesting to see how people lived in those days.... it was a hard life compared to ours today!
My ankle is on the mend so hopefully I will be able to visit the library next week to check out Morgans Merchant Navy records.
Thanks again
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FindMyPast is free from 12 noon (UK time) today!
Save your ankle!! ;D ;D
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Brilliant...... Thanks for the "heads up"
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Managed to use the free option on FindMyPast and obtain the merchant navy records of Morgan Lewis and his photo......brilliant. Just received an offer from FindMyPast for one month world subscription for £1, so will make the most of that.