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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Clare => Topic started by: bushpoet on Thursday 14 January 16 11:26 GMT (UK)
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I have traced the birth of a John Henry Broggy to his parents Matthew and Ellen[Thorn] Broggy in 1871 to the Registration District of Limerick.
Name John Henry Braggy
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 Jul 1870
Birthplace Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name Mathew Braggy
Mother's Name Ellen Thorn Braggy
I believe that John married Margaret Liston in 1903.
Party 1 Name JOHN BROGGY
Party 2 Name MARGARET LISTON
Date of Event 28 November 1903
Group Registration ID 1974479
SR District/Reg Area Limerick
I have also found a death record which I believe may belong to the same John.
Name John Broggy
Event Type Death
Event Date Jul - Sep 1951
Event Place Limerick, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1951
Registration District Limerick
Age 81
Birth Year (Estimated) 1870
Volume Number 5
Page Number 219
Just wondering if anyone could verify all these records pertain to the same person.
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This appears to be John and his mother in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Killeely/Derrymore/1083941/
Brother Matthew in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Killeely/Derry_More/367202/
Now where did John and Margaret end up?
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In case you do not have to date: (edited to add - Sinann this is where!)
John BROGGY and Margaret LISTON had five children by 1911
and were living at #7 in Clonconane (Limerick North, Limerick) (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Limerick_North/Clonconane/624727/) shown on the census as BRUGGY
Births of Children (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=&namel=broggy&location=&yyfrom=1903&yyto=1910&type=B&submit=Search) all shown as BROGGY
Matthew Thomas Dec 18 1903 death of Matthew 1905 (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/b74e2913133536)
Mary Ellen Dec 06 1904
Anne Mary Apr 18 1906
Ellen Mar 15 1909
Margaret Aug 15 1910
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This appears to be John and his mother in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Killeely/Derrymore/1083941/
Brother Matthew in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Killeely/Derry_More/367202/
Matthew Henry BROGGY s/o Matthew of Meelick
m. Feb 14 1901 in the Cathedral, Limerick (http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/2b06c56892381)
Catherine FROST (widow) d/o James O'SHAUGHNESSY of Pennywell
Catherine was previously married to Thomas FROST
I believe the William Shaughnessy shown was actually FROST b. Oct 31 1888
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That link didn't work for some reason my luck
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Limerick_North/Clonconane/624727/
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Thank you Sinann - corrected now
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Thank you my luck for picking up on Catherine's first marriage. That put's William in perspective.
I have all of John and Margaret Liston's children.
The age relationship on the death record would seem to indicate that it is the same John.
Name John Broggy
Event Type Death
Event Date Jul - Sep 1951
Event Place Limerick, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1951
Registration District Limerick
Age 81
Birth Year (Estimated) 1870
Volume Number 5
Page Number 219
Birth 1870 corresponds.
John died in Clare and Margaret went to live in Dublin and have been tracing all her children.
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G'day sinann.
Yes the 1901 census is a help and puts John with his mother and unmarried in 1901. He married Margaret Liston in 1903 and I feel comfortable that the death in 1951 is his as it tallies with his birth in 1870.
I've tracked his brother Matthew Henry and his line.
Going back from there is the tricky bit.
It seems that there were three brothers born to Matthew and Ellen [Thorn] Broggy.
DESCENDANTS OF MATTHEW HENRY AND ELLEN [THORN] BROGGY
Matthew Henry Broggy married Catherine O'Shaughnessy
John Henry Broggy married Margaret Liston
William Henry Broggy married
Can't seem to find anything on William Henry.
Name William Henry
Gender Male
Christening Place 403, Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Birth Date 12 Jul 1871
Birthplace Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name Mathew Bruggy
Mother's Name Ellen Thom
He's not in the 1901 census.
Appreciate your help.
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Can't find his grave and he doesn't appear to have a will, you may just have to get the death certificate.
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
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When was William Henry born?
There is a William Bruggy born Limerick 1871
Also a William Bruggy died 1873 aged 1 http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/3779bf15821720
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William Henry
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPYK-G7H
Ellen died 1905
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014914/005014914_00029.pdf
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In case you haven't seen the original baptism register entry for William Henry, this from the register for Parteen RC parish, 16 July 1871, right page, 5th entry down:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/177/mode/1up
Note sponsors Patrick & Catherine Frost and the word "protestant" after mother.
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And in the same RC parish register, John Henry, baptised 17 July 1870 (note reference to father catholic and mother protestant), left page, 5th entry down:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/174/mode/1up
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so who are these Matthew's
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014914/005014914_00028.pdf
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Civil Reg.. Birth, Marriage and Death results for Bruggy
Displaying results 1 - 60 of 60.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gug/
Birth, Marriage and Death results for Broggy
Displaying results 1 - 23 of 23.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01guh/
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Potential marriage in Cork, 1865, volume 10, page 72:
Matthew "Broggie": https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYMJ-75Q
Ellen Thorn: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYMH-ZZ7
If them, then maybe worth ordering up a research copy of the marriage record from Co. Roscommon, the bride's and groom's fathers should be named (and their occupations)...
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_St_Anne_(Shandon)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDZ-QJW
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDZ-QJW
Good stuff.
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G'day Gaffy.
First up , thank you for your assistance, it's very much appreciated.
Query.
And in the same RC parish register, John Henry, baptised 17 July 1870 (note reference to father catholic and mother protestant), left page, 5th entry down:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/174/mode/1up
In case you haven't seen the original baptism register entry for William Henry, this from the register for Parteen RC parish, 16 July 1871, right page, 5th entry down:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/177/mode/1up
Note sponsors Patrick & Catherine Frost and the word "protestant" after mother.
I'm not sure if I'm reading it right but when I looked at both the records it seems they are both for Matthew. Can't see John mentioned.
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G'day dathai.
so who are these Matthew's
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014914/005014914_00028.pdf
The probate is Ellen [Thorn] Broggy's husband Matthew born 1866. and the recipient his son Matthew born 1903.
When ellen died in 1905 her probate recipient was her son John and Matthew's brother.
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... Query.
And in the same RC parish register, John Henry, baptised 17 July 1870 (note reference to father catholic and mother protestant), left page, 5th entry down:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/174/mode/1up
In case you haven't seen the original baptism register entry for William Henry, this from the register for Parteen RC parish, 16 July 1871, right page, 5th entry down:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/177/mode/1up
Note sponsors Patrick & Catherine Frost and the word "protestant" after mother.
I'm not sure if I'm reading it right but when I looked at both the records it seems they are both for Matthew. Can't see John mentioned.
The child's name is immediately after the name of the priest on the first line in each case, so in the baptism on 17 July 1870 for example, it says "Joannem Henricum" (John Henry) before going on to say the legitimate son of Matthew Broggy (Catholic) and Helen Thorn (Protestant) etc.
And in the baptism on 16 July 1871, the name to look for is "Gulielmum Henricum" (William Henry).
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G'day Gaffy.
Aha. Didn't have me Irish glasses on. appreciation that explanation mate.
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Potential marriage in Cork, 1865, volume 10, page 72:
Matthew "Broggie": https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYMJ-75Q
Ellen Thorn: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYMH-ZZ7
If them, then maybe worth ordering up a research copy of the marriage record from Co. Roscommon, the bride's and groom's fathers should be named (and their occupations)...
Name Matthew Broffie
Spouse's Name Ellen Thorn
Event Date 04 Apr 1865
Event Place St Anne Shandon, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Daniel Broffie
Spouse's Father's Name Robert Thorn
I did find this record and again spelling throws a spanner in the works but compared to another
I think they are one and the same people getting married.
Name: Ellen Thorn
Matthew Broggie
Date of Registration: 1865
Registration district: Cork, Ireland
Volume: 10
Page Number: 72
FHL Film Number: 101249
The first record shows that Matthew's father was Daniel.
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G'day Gaffy.
Aha. Didn't have me Irish glasses on. appreciation that explanation mate.
It's your Latin glasses you need. :)
Irish RC parish registers were written in English or Latin, Latin found more in rural, Irish-speaking areas, English found more in urban areas, but that's not a hard and fast rule, there are many exceptions. To my knowledge Irish was not used in registers. As you can see, placenames and surnames weren't translated but forenames were. I'm still trying to work out what the placename is in the register entries for John Henry and William Henry, it looks like "de Dena" - "of Dena"? Hmmm.
I can see a couple of references online to Derra in County Clare, maybe the "n" is a double "r"?
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DESCENDANTS OF MATTHEW HENRY AND ELLEN [THORN] BROGGY
Matthew Henry Broggy married Catherine O'Shaughnessy
John Henry Broggy married Margaret Liston
William Henry Broggy married Died 1 yr
I can't find any source for Matthew Henry's birth on the 11 August 1866 in the Registration District of Limerick, Ireland, but John Henry and William Henry were both born at Cooley Casey, Clare.
Name John Henry Braggy
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 Jul 1870
Birthplace Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name Mathew Braggy
Mother's Name Ellen Thorn Braggy
Name William Henry
Gender Male
Christening Place 403, Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Birth Date 12 Jul 1871
Birthplace Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name Mathew Bruggy
Mother's Name Ellen Thom
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The townland of Coolycasey is in the civil parish of Kilfinaghta, here it is in the 1830s/40s:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,551290,667587,9,7
I wonder what the "de Dena" / "de Derra" reference means in the church record?
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One reference I found.
Derra, Kilmurry, Sixmilebridge, Co. Clare
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This is the line that I am trying to get back along.
I've found records back to Matthew and Ellen [Thorn] Broggy. Married 1865.
Name Matthew Broffie
Spouse's Name Ellen Thorn
Event Date 04 Apr 1865
Event Place St Anne Shandon, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Daniel Broffie
Spouse's Father's Name Robert Thorn
Haven't a source for Matthew's birth 1843. Death record says he was 62 years, when he died in 1904 which puts his birth around 1843 in Clare, Ireland.
Marriage record seems to indicate his father was Daniel Broggy.
I have found a post that suggests the he may have been Daniel Broggy who married Bridget Omeara.
And his father was Daniel Broggy who married Bridget Danaher.
No dates no source. So that's what I need to prove.
There was a Daniel Broggy of Derrymore who appears to be occupying land in the Tithe Applotment Books1833.
There is also the Daniel Broggy in the Griffiths Valuations.
Occupier: Daniel Broggy
Lessor: James Frost
County: Clare
Barony: Bunratty, Lower
Parish: Killeely
Townland: Derrymore
OS Page Numbers: 52 and 62
Interesting that the Lessor is James Frost. Matthew's son Matthew Henry B1903 married a Catherine Shaughnessy who married Thomas Frost first up.
This is where I find it hard to get records to prove the Daniel connections.
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... I can't find any source for Matthew Henry's birth on the 11 August 1866 in the Registration District of Limerick, Ireland, but John Henry and William Henry were both born at Cooley Casey, Clare.
Name John Henry Braggy
Gender Male
Birth Date 12 Jul 1870
Birthplace Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name Mathew Braggy
Mother's Name Ellen Thorn Braggy
Name William Henry
Gender Male
Christening Place 403, Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Birth Date 12 Jul 1871
Birthplace Cooley Casey, Clare, Ireland
Father's Name Mathew Bruggy
Mother's Name Ellen Thom
Coolycasey was a civil registration subdistrict and I suspect this was where the births were registered, rather than the actual birthplace. The OSI website has an entry for a locality called Derra, when you select it, the website takes you exactly here (crosshair marks the spot):
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,547957,671355,10,7
When you pan south a bit, you will see a "Derry House" and a "Derry Lough", when you pan southwest, you will see Kilmurry townland in close proximity, so this is just a possibility for where Matthew and Ellen Broggy were living when sons John Henry and William Henry were baptised.
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... Haven't a source for Matthew's birth 1843. Death record says he was 62 years, when he died in 1904 which puts his birth around 1843 in Clare, Ireland ...
But the 1901 census shows Ellen as a widow, he must have died before that?
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From the Parteen RC registers, 9 July 1840, the baptism of Matthew, legitimate son of Daniel Broggy and Brigid Finucane of Derra, sponsors John Finucance and Ellen Coffee (right page, 6th entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/54/mode/1up
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for reference what appears to be Matthew's birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F55J-N9H
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From Parteen RC registers, other children of Daniel Broggy and Bridget Finucane...
John baptised 9 March 1832 (left page, 2nd entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/6/mode/1up
Daniel baptised 7 February 1834 (left page, 5th entry down from top):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/17/mode/1up
Mary baptised 18 February 1836 (left page, 2nd entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/28/mode/1up
Patrick baptised 27 May 1838, parents from Derra (left page, 4th entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/42/mode/1up
Michael baptised 8 March 1845, parents from Derra (right page, 2nd entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634992#page/81/mode/1up
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... The OSI website has an entry for a locality called Derra, when you select it, the website takes you exactly here (crosshair marks the spot):
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,547957,671355,10,7
When you pan south a bit, you will see a "Derry House" and a "Derry Lough", when you pan southwest, you will see Kilmurry townland in close proximity, so this is just a possibility for where Matthew and Ellen Broggy were living when sons John Henry and William Henry were baptised ...
Have also just noticed that hits come back when you google "Derra, Kilkishen", so that corroborates the OSI website. Still not 100% convinced, but worth noting for now as a possibility.
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Thomas Braggy ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDX-7PB
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRHB-TSQ
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... Haven't a source for Matthew's birth 1843. Death record says he was 62 years, when he died in 1904 which puts his birth around 1843 in Clare, Ireland ...
But the 1901 census shows Ellen as a widow, he must have died before that?
Now that was a tricky birth to find. Well done mate.
Up till now I understood Matthew born 1866 died in 1904. Details below.
1904 – Death of Matthew.
Matthew died in Ennis on the 26 December 1904.
Name: Mathew Broggy
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1905
Death Age: 62
Registration district: Ennis
Volume: 4
Page: 135
FHL Film Number: 101602
Name Matthew Broggy
Event Type Probate
Event Date 26 Dec 1904
Event Place Clare
Beneficiary's Name Matthew Broggy
Broggy Matthew [73] 12 July Administration of the estate of Matthew Broggy late of Derrymore, Meelick, Limerick County, Clare. Farmer who died 26 December 1904 at Ennis said County granted at Limerick to Matthew Broggy Farmer Effects 468 pounds.
1905 – Death of Ellen.
The record of Ellen’s death in 1905 tends to differ in relation to her age compared with the 1901 electoral roll. Death records show her age at death as 79 yrs and therefore her estimated birth year would be about 1826, compared with 1831 on the 1901 census record..
Name: Ellen Broggy
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1905
Death Age: 79
Registration district: Limerick
Volume: 5
Page: 303
FHL Film Number: 101602
Maybe this is not the right Matthew?
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Bridget Broggy born 10 Jan 1869 Ireland but registered in Brighton,Massachussetts
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXZ2-CLW
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Thomas Brogie ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4ZK-91Q
possible wife
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5JB-5MG
Thomas birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXZ5-YMY
daughter Mary Agnes 1903
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXFV-DPL
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1866 – Birth of Matthew Henry.
The first child born to Matthew and Ellen was a son they named Matthew Henry who was born on the 11 August 1866 in the Registration District of Limerick, Ireland.
The 1901 Census shows his wife Ellen as a widow.
Broggy Ellen Head of Family Church of Ireland Read-Write 70 Female Widow Co. Tipperary
I had a record of Matthew Broggy dying in 1904 and probate in 1905.
Name: Mathew Broggy
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1905
Death Age: 62
Registration district: Ennis
Volume: 4
Page: 135
FHL Film Number: 101602
Broggy Matthew [73] 12 July Administration of the estate of Matthew Broggy late of Derrymore, Meelick, Limerick County, Clare. Farmer who died 26 December 1904 at Ennis said County granted at Limerick to Matthew Broggy Farmer Effects 468 pounds.
If this is not Ellen's husband Matthew, when did he die?
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Civil Reg.. Birth, Marriage and Death results for Bruggy
Displaying results 1 - 60 of 60.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gug/
Birth, Marriage and Death results for Broggy
Displaying results 1 - 23 of 23.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01guh/
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Number 65 here M B age 58 married a Farmer, Mania and tendency to violence
Ennis Rural Asylum
make up your own mind on this one
perhaps the death cert would clarify cause of death and where.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000462376/
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http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6655
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G'day dathai.
Well the above would explain why he probably wasn't on the 1901 census with Ellen.
And I guess she considered herself a widow and the 1904 death and 1905 probate would be correct for Matthew.
Make sense to you.
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... Haven't a source for Matthew's birth 1843. Death record says he was 62 years, when he died in 1904 which puts his birth around 1843 in Clare, Ireland ...
But the 1901 census shows Ellen as a widow, he must have died before that?
G'day Gaffy,
Mate what do you think of the Ennis Asylum 1901 census that shows M B. [Matthew Broggy?] a patient.
Would probably explain the widow entry for Catherine and verify the 1904 death.
Interested in your thoughts.
I'm amazed at what's on the net and even more amazed that folk like yourself can find them. Much appreciated.
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G'day Gaffy,
Mate what do you think of the Ennis Asylum 1901 census that shows M B. [Matthew Broggy?] a patient.
Would probably explain the widow entry for Catherine and verify the 1904 death.
Interested in your thoughts.
I'm amazed at what's on the net and even more amazed that folk like yourself can find them. Much appreciated.
In the absence of another death record for a Matthew Broggy, I suppose it's possible, the 1901 Asylum return said that MB had suffered the condition for 8 years and 8 months, if he was admitted at the time the condition started, that is a long time away from Ellen and perhaps she effectively considered herself widowed. As Dathai said, the death certificate might clarify things.
In relation to the "Derra" location, there is a suggestion online that this is simply a contraction of the townland of Derry More in the civil parish of Killeely, this lies about 6-7 miles south of the townland of Kilkishen where the OSI website says there is a local placename Derra (the one near Kilmurry). Although the reference is unsubstantiated, on the map it makes more sense and it is consistent with mention of Derrymore and Meelick in previous posts on this topic relating to tithe applotment records, census records, etc. This is Derry More in the OSI 6" mapping series, if you pan south, you quickly happen upon the townland of Meelick:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,553078,662421,9,7
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the marriage of Daniel Broggy to Bridget Finucane.
Interesting too that the surname survives there until modern times, eg: http://rip.ie/showdn.php?dn=86882
If you google "Broggy, Meelick" (quotes and all) you will get several hits back, likewise if you google "Broggy, Derrymore".
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G'day Gaffy.
In trying to get back to an era that my ggggrandfather [William Broggy] was born in I came across a Broggy family that lived in Derrymore, Meelick, today. I decided to follow this family line back to see what Broggy families there were and form some idea of a timeline.
The line has taken me back through the following who have lived in Derrymore, Meelick.
Matthew Henry Broggy B 1903, M 1933, D 1973. Married Mary OConnell.
Matthew Henry Broggy B 1866, M 1901, D 1946. Married Catherine OShaughnessy who had previously married Thomas Frost.
Matthew Broggy B [Trying to establish] M 1865, D 1904. Married Ellen Thorn.
If Matthew, M. B. from the Ennis 1901 census died in 1904 his age was shown as 62. Putting his birth around 1843. Also records show his father's name was Daniel.
A member of the family that still resides in Derrymore, Meelick, posted on a genealogy site that the parents of Matthew above were Daniel Broggy and Bridget Omeara. No records shown to substantiate it though.
Your search revealed the record of a Matthew Broggy being born to a Daniel Broggy and Bridget Finucane.
That is where I'm at and trying to find the correct parents.
The same family member also recorded that Daniel who married Bridget Omeara, his parents were Daniel and Bridget Danaher. Again no records shown to substantiate it though.
I was given the following records around that era of a Thomas Broggy [probably related] and its interesting that a Mary Danaher and a Bridget Danaher are mentioned as informants.
Church Baptism Record
Name: Bridget Broggy Date of Birth:
Date of Baptism: 17-Jan-1869
Address: Derra
Parish/District: PARTEEN
Gender: Female County Co. Clare
Denomination: Roman Catholic
Father: Thomas Broggy
Mother: Mary McNamara
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1: Thomas McNamara Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2: Mary Danaher
Notes:
Church Baptism Record
Name: John Broggy Date of Birth:
Date of Baptism: 29-Apr-1866
Address: Derra
Parish/District: PARTEEN
Gender: Male
County Co. Clare
Denomination: Roman Catholic
Father: Thomas Broggy
Mother: Mary McNamara
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1: John Danaher Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2: Bridget Danaher
I hope this outline will help a bit in finding Matthew Broggy B 1840/43 parents and grandparents.
Really grateful for of all the assistance I'm getting.
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Here is a possibility for the marriage, a research copy from GRO Roscommon should confirm Thomas' father:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYMJ-WT1
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYM8-WPK
There are references to Thomas Broggy and Mary McNamara on the internet (emigrated from Ireland to NY etc.), but once again any information about their Irish origins seems to be hearsay / anecdotal rather than based on authoritative source records.
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I was having a look through these some dates agree with what we have found others appear guesstimated.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gux/
It looks to me like the Patrick and Daniel on Griffiths Valuations are brothers and both their lines are obviously using the same names which is causing great confusion.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VX51-G17
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N437-VVY
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHX1-3MG
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Once you get back into the period 1800-1860 there are a few different families and many with Patrick, Daniel, Thomas and Matthew first names.
I've been trying to build a time line of Broggy individuals through this period hoping to connect some of them.
Irish immigration sent many to Canada and the U.S.A.
Just wondering what information would be included on the death record of Matthew Broggy who died in 1905. He actually died on the 26 December 1904. Do you need to procure a certificate, or an image, or can it be viewed somewhere. Would it give both or one parent?
Name
MATHEW BROGGY
Year of Death 1905
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Ennis
Deceased Age at Death 62
Returns Year 1905
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 4
Returns Page No 135
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... A member of the family that still resides in Derrymore, Meelick, posted on a genealogy site that the parents of Matthew above were Daniel Broggy and Bridget Omeara. No records shown to substantiate it though ...
I sympathise, but I can only go on what I've found. If I had to distil down what I can stand by with reasonable confidence at this point, based on looking at original Parteen RC parish registers, it is that:
- a Matthew Broggy and Ellen/Helen Thorn had sons John Henry and William Henry baptised in 1870 and 1871 respectively (Frosts were among the sponsors), I am more than less satisfied the recorded address was Derra and think this was more likely in the area of Derry More / Meelick;
- a Daniel Broggy and Bridget Finucane had a son Matthew baptised in 1840, the recorded address was Derra, this address was corroborated by the baptisms of some of their other children running from 1832 to 1845.
For this era you are less likely to determine anything beyond reasonable doubt, more likely you have to make a call on the balance of probabilities. If online information points to a Daniel Broggy and Bridget O'Meara having a son Matthew in the same ball park around the same time, that would mean two Daniel Broggys. I can't rule that out, all I can do is say that I haven't found records to support that other family.
It may be worth obtaining research copies of some of the civil records to try to tie things down.
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Just wondering what information would be included on the death record of Matthew Broggy who died in 1905. He actually died on the 26 December 1904. Do you need to procure a certificate, or an image, or can it be viewed somewhere. Would it give both or one parent?
Death certificate will not list relatives (unless one happens to be an informant). See here for details-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433043.0.html
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I wonder if the Patrick and Daniel of Derrymore in the Griffiths Valuation were brothers?
Occupier: Daniel Broggy
Lessor: James Frost
County: Clare
Barony: Bunratty, Lower
Parish: Killeely
Townland: Derrymore
OS Page Numbers: 52 and 62
Occupier: Patrick Broggy
Lessor: James Frost
County: Clare
Barony: Bunratty, Lower
Parish: Killeely
Townland: Derrymore
OS Page Numbers: 52 and 62
I found a record of a Daniel whose father was Patrick. Could make him the Patrick above.
Name Daniel Briggy
Event Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1846
Marriage Date 31 Mar 1872
Marriage Place Brighton, Massachusetts
Marriage Age 26
Father Name Patrick
Mother Name Mary
Spouse Name Hannah Finn
Spouse Marriage Age 22
Spouse Father Name Dennis
Spouse Mother Name Hannah
Household Members Name Age
Daniel Briggy
Hannah Finn
Name Daniel Broggy
Event Type Census
Event Date 1880
Event Place Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States
Gender Male
Age 34
Marital Status Married
Race White
Race (Original) W
Occupation Laborer
Relationship to Head of Household Self
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Self
Birth Year (Estimated) 1846
Birthplace Ireland
Father's Birthplace Ireland
Mother's Birthplace Ireland
Sheet Letter D
Sheet Number 233
Person Number 0
Volume 2
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Daniel Broggy Self M 34 Ireland
Hannah Broggy Hannah Broggy
Wife F 30 Ireland
Hannah Broggy Hannah Broggy
Daughter F 6 Massachusetts, United States
Patrick Broggy Patrick Broggy
Son M 4 Massachusetts, United States
Mary Broggy Mary Broggy
Daughter F 1 Massachusetts, United States
Name Daniel Brogie
Gender Male
Birth Date abt 1851
Birth Place Ireland
Death Date 27 Oct 1908
Death Place Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Age at Death 57
Father Patrick Brogie
Also a Daniel Broggy of Derrymore who appears to be occupying land in 1833. Is he the Daniel in the Griffiths Valuation. Is he the Daniel who married Bridget Finucane.
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Interesting to note that a Thomas Frost is mentioned here as well.
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might be of interest 3 will indexes naming different administrators for Harriett Thorn
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01guy/
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Thanks dathai.
I had her father Robert but that gives me her mother Eliza and sister Harriett.
Also confirmation of Matthew Broggie.
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The earliest record that I've found that puts me in the right timeline for my ggggranfather William Broggy B 1804/05 is below.
Prior to 1809
Daniel and Mary Broggie [Broggy]. Parents to Patrick below.
1809 - Patrick Broggie [Broggy]
Name Patrick Broggie
Event Type Death
Event Date 28 Aug 1874
Event Place Boston, Massachusetts
Residence Place Boston, MASS
Address Church BD
Gender Male
Age 65
Marital Status Married
Occupation Laborer
Birthplace IRE
Birth Year (Estimated) 1809
Father's Name Daniel Broggie
Father's Birthplace IRE
Mother's Name Mary ...
Mother's Birthplace IRE
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Looking for any records of Broggy/Bruggy/Broggie/Brogie/ derivations prior to 1810 or anyone researching this family surname.
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In trying to get back to 1805, the era that my ggggrandfather [William Broggy] was born in, I came across a Broggy family that lived in Derrymore, Meelick, today. I decided to follow this family line back to see what Broggy families there were and form some idea of a timeline.
The line has taken me back through the following who have lived in Derrymore, Meelick.
Matthew Henry Broggy B 1903, M 1933, D 1973. Married Mary OConnell.
Matthew Henry Broggy B 1866, M 1901, D 1946. Married Catherine OShaughnessy who had previously married Thomas Frost.
Matthew Broggy B [Trying to establish] Born 1840 M 1865, D 1904. Married Ellen Thorn.
Daniel Broggy B ? M Prior to 1832 Died ? Married Bridget Finucane.
I have found all of Daniel and Bridget's children in the parish register below but would like to find out when Daniel was married and when he was born.
Also hoping to find his parents and any brothers and sisters.
This should put me in the era around 1805.
Not sure when if Daniel's parents were in the Derrymore area as well or somewhere else.
Maybe even Limerick.
Would appreciate any help.
Many thanks.
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I would like to establish with some certainty that Thomas F Broggy is a child of Daniel Broggy and Bridget Finucane.
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I would like to establish with some certainty that Thomas F Broggy is a child of Daniel Broggy and Bridget Finucane. As he doesn't show up in the Parish Baptism register with the others it makes me wonder.
Or does he belong to another family line. Cousin??
Daniel 1810-1813 may have had a brother Patrick.
A Daniel and Patrick show up on the 1856 Griffiths Evaluation and may have been brothers but is this Daniel 1810-13 and a brother Patrick or is it his father Daniel and his father's brother Patrick???
Need a Panadol.
Any ideas would be appreciated.