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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Nottinghamshire => England => Nottinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Towdlass on Sunday 17 January 16 11:59 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to track a family named Stevenson. I have found a boy named Jesse who was born in 1870 in Wysall. In 1871 he is living with his grandparents William and Ann Stevenson along with their 12 year old daughter Mary. The address looks to be 2, Thorpe in Glebe.
I am not certain if Jesse is actually a part of my family tree but I think he might hold the key to unlocking the problem I have wrestled with for over twenty years. The family would seem to come from the Basford in Derbyshire area after this. Has anyone who knows the area, and the family names in that area, got any ideas, please?
Towdlass
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Here is his baptism just in case you haven't got it:
Jesse Stevenson
Baptism: 05 Oct 1870
Holy Trinity Wysall
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Mother:Lucy Stevenson
Residence: Wysall
No father named
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Oh that's a great help. Thanks for that. I had no idea who his mother was.
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Lucy Stevenson b 1844 Wysall, Nottinghamshire and living with William and Ann Stevenson in 1851 is listed as a housekeeper in 1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFTF-NTX
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Thank you Kay99. It's all building a picture.
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A tree on Anc lists Lucy as marrying an Edward Hallam on 23 Sept 1873 at Loughborough, Leicestershire and this is possibly Lucy in 1881 -- Luce Hallam b 1844 Wysall (with possible son William Hallam b 1880 Burton Upon Trent, Staffordshire) is listed as a visitor with a George Hallam b Wysall and family in Calstock Loughbough
In 1891 I think this is the family living at Burton upon Trent with all children born there
Edward Hallam 50 b Wysall- Maltster
Lucy Hallam 47 B Wysall
George Hallam 16
William Hallam 11
Edward Hallam 8
John Hallam 6
George Bright 38 Lodger
Arthur Holden 26 Lodger
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Hi
Lucy Stevenson married Edward Hallam 23.9. 1873 at Wysall
Lucy Stevenson baptised 3.12. 1843 to William & Ann Labourer at Wysall
Carol
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You probably know this already..but your mention of Basford raises a potential common problem.
Basford is an area in Nottingham..it's where I live..............no problem, but if you don't know that Basford is or was also a registration District for BMD,s from 1837 onwards............thus, it is possible to get cinfused as to whether the person you are looking for comes from Notts or Derbys.
The Basford registration District originating in 1837 covered a whole area of South Eastern Derbyshire....Including the area around Ilkeston...do for instance a Birth Marriage or Death Registered in say 1867 in BASFORD....does not necessarily tell you that the person or family came from Nottinghamshire..in fact was much more likely to be Derbyshire..............it's as well to bear this in mind.....Wysall of course is a case in point..and is in Notts
You don't actually give any detail about the actual problem you are struggling with...
Derek
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Hi Derbysderek,
Yes, I think you are right. I didn't realise that there are two Basfords. I have noticed that all the info does seem to relate to Wysall, Basford and Ilkeston.
The problem I have struggled with for many years seems to be unsolvable. This enquiry is a really tenuous possibility. I am trying to find an Edward Stevenson who might be my grandfather and who lived in Sheffield between 1912 and 1931. He and my gran never married but had 4 children together. The chances are that he might have been already married. Having no marriage cert I have no way of knowing his age or where he might have been born. The only fact I have is that he was a mechanical engineer. The four children's names are Margaret, Alwyn, Wilfred and Georgina. Having exhausted so many possible lines of enquiry over the years I recently came up with the possiblity that the names Alwyn and Wilfred might hold a clue as they are not names which appear in my grans family tree. I found that a Jesse and Sarah Stevenson had numerous children, two of whom were named Alwyn and Wilfred. Jesse's mother was named Lucy Stevenson. She had brothers one of whom had a child named Edward. (Are you following????) I don't think he is the right one as he seems to have had children with his wife at roughly the same times as my family were being born in Sheffield and they are still living in Ilkeston.
I'm feeling that the answer could lie somewhere around this family though if I keep looking.
Thanks for your reply though as it was very helpful.
Towdlass
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Do you know what happened to Edward after 1931, or did he die then?
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Jesse b Wysall is shown in the 1891 census as age 21, lodging with this family:
John Stephenson age 48 b Bradmore, Notts
Hannah do. age 50 b Clipstone
John do. age 28 b Clipstone
Jane do. age 20 b Stapleford
Jesse do age 16 b Hallam Fields Derbyshire
Henry do. age 3 b Hallam Fields
so 2 Jesse Stevensons of similar age under the same roof! They must surely be related?
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Jesse was born in or around 1870. I've followed him through the various census ending in 1911 where he is a widower living with his 8 children - Mary 18, Alwyn 16, Beryl 11, Alfred 9, Albert 7, Harold 5, Wilfred 2, Dennis 1 month.
In 1901 his wife Sarah Jane is still alive and the 3 oldest children are shown by Gwendoline (Mary) 7, Francis Edward (Alwyn) 6, Caroline (Beryl) 1.
1891 finds him boarding with John and Hannah Stevenson, He marries Sarah Jane Barber in 1892 in Basford, Derbyshire.
1881 He is living with his grandfather William Stevenson aged 60 who is a widower.
1871 He is living with his grandparents " " and Ann and his aunt Mary aged 12.
They always seem to be living in the Ilkeston area of Derbyshire.
I do feel that these names are family names. There aren't too many Jesse's around at that time compared to William, George and John for instance.
That's all a bit back to front, sorry. Think it must be the way my mind works. :P
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Moving forwards again to edward, do you have any addresses for the family in sheffield?
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Firstly I do not know what happened to Edward after 1931. He is on the electoral roll at the family address in 1930 but none of them are there by 1932. The 1931 ER no longer exists. My gran married someone else in 1934. So your guess is as good as mine. As I don't know where he came from or when he was born I cannot pin down a d.o.d. for him.
The family lived at 11, Beeley Street, Sheffield. The area is described as Sharrow and also Ecclesall Bierlow. They were there from 1913 until 1930/1. The children were born 1913, 1916, 1918 and 1921. Edward is mentioned in a newspaper in 1921 giving his name and address so we know he was definitely there. Despite their not being married my gran took his name and his children also had his name.
I do have a lot of info which I have gleaned over the years so if you have any questions then do please ask. I am really grateful for any help.
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This looks like Edward's baptsim ( Francis Edward Olwyn Stevenson) in Hallam Fields, Derbyshire - at least you know where he came from
Shirl
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBFL-NPF
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Hi Shirl,
That actually looks like Francis' baptism. I see what you're thinking and I will investigate further into this idea but as he was born in 1896 I think he would be a bit young for my gran but stranger things have happened. Thanks for the suggestion.
Towdlass
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Hi Shirl,
That actually looks like Francis' baptism. I see what you're thinking and I will investigate further into this idea but as he was born in 1896 I think he would be a bit young for my gran but stranger things have happened. Thanks for the suggestion.
Towdlass
Worth a try! Have you got any of the birth certs of Edward's children ? Does it show an occupation?
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The area is described as Sharrow and also Ecclesall Bierlow
Sharrow is a suburb of Sheffield; it's almost innercity and would have been densely populated before the Luftwaffe did some slum demolition for the council. (Beeley St is pretty close to where George Orwell stayed and commented on the slum conditions in one of his books - Down and out in Paris and Londn? I'm not sure which).
Ecclesall Bierlow is the registration district which encompassed the west side of Sheffield and went out into what was then still Derbyshire and is now at the outermost edges of Sheffield's leafiest furthest flung suburbs.
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Right Shirl, I have had a look and this chap was married in Basford in 1919 and had a child in 1924 also in Basford. So I would think it not very likely that he actually would be my grandad. I must admit that when I was looking at it I did get quite excited as he is an engineer of sorts and that's what my grandad was described as. But I have checked E.Rs for various years during the 20s and my Edward is living at 11, Beeley Street, Sheffield during tat time.
If you find any other possibilities please let me know. The truth is out there and I'm hoping that I'll come to it eventually. My thoughts are that my Edward was already married. Why else would they live together for all those years and not get married. They must have known that they wouldn't be getting married as my gran was known as Stevenson for all those years and gave her children that name too. I have this idea that he perhaps left a wife and possibly a family and he might have gone back to them in 1931. As an engineer he might have come to Sheffield looking for work. All pie in the sky as I have no idea what their story really was.
Towdlass
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Can I just mention that I was born in Sheffield and lived just around the corner from Beeley Street for the first 24 years of my life. So I know the area and Sheffield very well. I didn't leave until the age of 48. Beeley Street is, as you say, just off the city centre. There are also one or two large engineering firms around this address. I have been in contact with them to ask if they have an archive section or any way of being able to retrieve a list of employees for this time. (Faint hope I know) Only one of them bothered to answer and they did actually do a search for me but didn't find anything
I also knew my gran for many years before her death in the 1970s. Why I never asked her about her life I do not know but then she probably would not have told me the truth. They were very secretive that age group weren't they?
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It's a pretty good brick wall, but there must be a clue somewhere! I will keep having a look round.
Shirl
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Oh thank you. I do appreciate it. I have eliminated a lot of people. I never would have believed that there could be so many men named Edward Stevenson. A lot seem to have been coal miners so can be eliminated straight away. I think the mechanical engineer might be the biggest clue to being on the right track or something along similar lines.
He did exist so he must be findable, mustn't he? ???
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Ah, apologies for trying to teach you to suck eggs re districts of Sheffield!
Engineer -- hmm - do you have all the birth certs for his children, does it say the same on them all?
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I think you might forget the Wysall connection............on the basis that I have found three of you children in Eccelsall Bierlow Sheffield.....
Alwyn Stevenson 1916
Wilfred Stevenson 1918
Georgina Stevenson 1921................all three with the same mother..Mother's Maiden name was TOULSON...............you'd need one of the three Birth Certicates to get the correct details...but it seems fairly clear that these are the children of Edward Stevenson and a lady..for which there appears to be no marriage................otherwise its one colosssal co-incidence!!!!
Get back to me if you thin i'm on the right track.
Derek
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No you're right Edith Annie was my gran. The children were Margaret, Alwyn, Wilfred and Georgina. I do have all 4 birth certificates and Edward is described as being a mechanical engineer on the last three but on Margaret's (the first child) his occupation is Independent Means.
I don't think that you can have read the previous posts Derbysderek. The Wysall connection I explained was a tenuous possibility going on the names Alwyn, Wilfred and Stevenson. Alwyn and Wilfred are not family names on my grans family tree so thought they might be on Edwards. I found all three of these names in a family which were based in Wysall and so I was trying to see if there might possibly be a connection. I have gone down so many dead ends and have been looking for so many years that I am pretty much down to desperation methods. I explained that my gran and Edward were never married despite having four children.
It just seemed possible that there might be a relative of the Wysall family who might have moved to Sheffield looking for work possibly.
I do appreciate all of you who are trying to help me in my search and there is absolutely no need to apologise Annie65115. There was no way you could know that I was from Sheffield. I was really only trying to give you as many facts as I could to help you to perhaps think of possible solutions. I have a lot of the answers should you need to ask any questions where Sheffield is concerned. that was what I was trying to explain.
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OK, I doubt I will be able to come up with anything else that you haven't already considered, but I guess one of the reasons that we use RC is in the hope that a fresh pair of eyes might spot something that we've seen so many times, we no longer notice it. So here's a few thoughts just in case anything might be helpful.
I see Edith Anne was v much a local girl; her family lived a short walk away from Beeley St in one direction and in 1911, Edith was working in a place a similar distance in the opposite direction. I suppose you've ruled out all the possible Edward Stevensons in Sheffield? ---- Including, of course, those who seem to have Edward as a middle name? And, of course, the Stephensons?
You say Edward was of "independent means". So had he inherited something? Have you found any Stephenson wills? Then during the war he was, or became, a mechanical engineer. So I presume he was working on the home front - I wonder, did he try to sign up but be turned down through ill health or something? Maybe he went back to work (had to go back to work) simply because of all the vacancies in industry caused by the disappearance of so many men to the front. Why had he stopped work before then? And when?
Ilkeston was a mining area but as you will know, there were no coal mines on the west of Sheffield. Sharrow was an area of factories and workshops, I believe largely to do with the steel industry. Men working in the steel industry usually had a particular job title specified eg grinder, blade forger etc (as far as I know!) It sounds as though Edward had a different skill set. Where did he learn this? Was he from an engineering family or was he an educated man from a comfortably off background who had learnt a trade in college rather than on the shop floor? The different options would give different pictures of the type of background to search for. I'm picturing someone from a middle class family, who has been educated to skilled professional level, got some private income so has been able to stop working, then goes back to work when the times require. (I could be completely wrong of course!) In this case, maybe not from the class of worker who would normally marry one of the local barmaids (apologies to your granny, no offence intended, but we know there wasn't a lot of fluidity between classes). I wonder if he met her when he went for a drink in the hotel in which she worked! --- That might suggest either that he was local, or that he was a traveller staying in said hostelry -- a salesman??
You say you've looked at the ERs. What about things like Kelly's directories? I have the 1938 one for Sheffield but it sounds as though that would be too late for your search! It does state occupations of the householders, maybe you could get a bit more detail?
School registers for the children? Any info there? (hmm, probably not due to the 100 yr rule)
It's perfectly possible, of course, that Edward did indeed have another family elsewhere and might even have split his time between them. I'm not sure you could rule out someone simply because another woman was having their babies in the same timescale :-\ He wouldn't be the first, if that were to be the case.
These are all just musings, it would be lovely if any were to be of any help but probably not!
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Hi Annie,
Great to have another pair of eyes looking at this for me. As you say, when you've been looking for so long it is possible to overlook something. You've made quite a few suggestions there that are worth thinking about. I am very grateful to you. Let me just put forward a few of my thoughts to see what you think.
As you mentioned my gran did work at the Cambridge Hotel near the city centre. I have found out that there was an engineering firm on the opposite corner of the road from the hotel. Perhaps Edward worked there? There was also another engineering firm on Division Street which is not too far away from the hotel and it was called C & J. Stevenson. I have spent some time trying to look into their family tree in the hope of finding an Edward but couldn't find one.
The fact that on Margaret's b/cert in 1913 he is described as of Independent Means I thought might be because at that time she didn't really know what he did for a living. The address given on that certificate was Rangeley Road which is in a totally different part of Sheffield than I ever knew my gran to live in throughout her life. The house at 11, Beeley Street was just a terraced house but on 3 levels. I have seen a photograph of it and it doesn't look to have been anything other than pretty basic so I don't feel that there was much money there. However, if he was keeping two families going that wouldn't be surprising, would it? My gran was a grafter and worked all her life and I know that she had part time jobs, cleaning etc when my mum was little. My mum also told me of trips to the pawn shop before she went to school in the mornings. She went to St Matthias school but I can't find any registers for that school even on Sheffield Indexers site.
I have been told that as a mechanical engineer he could have been exempt from call up. As the kids were born during the war - 1916 and 1918 - this tended to make me think that might be true. There was also a family named Stevenson who lived on Sharrow Vale Road or Pomona Street (can't remember which without looking back at my notes) he was an engineer and I did have a look at his family but couldn't find anything.
I haven't really ruled out the fact that he might have been Sheffield born. When the family disappeared from Beeley Street between 1930 and 1932 there doesn't appear to be a death for an Edward Stevenson around that time in that area. If he was from Sheffield where did he go? I thought that if he worked locally and drank in a local public house it was unlikely that he would have moved far but how to find out. I made a list of local streets and tried to get my hands on a Kelly's directory for that time frame but they are like hen's teeth. I asked my local library if they could ask Sheffield library for the loan of one and I would even look at it in the library so it wouldn't leave the premises but they said no.
My gran married in 1934 and the chap she married actually lodged with them in 1930 so Edward could have moved out. Perhaps as he was unable or not inclined to get married so she decided to go with someone who would marry her. Who knows. My mum herself married the following year so my gran might have felt it was time to try to secure her own future. The workhouse was still very much in existence at that time and people feared that they might end their lives there, so not an unreasonable decision if that was the case.
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The fact that on Margaret's b/cert in 1913 he is described as of Independent Means I thought might be because at that time she didn't really know what he did for a living.
Who registered Margaret's birth - your gran or Edward? I don't know what the rule was in those days - if your gran had registered the birth without Edward being there, would she have been able to have him named as father on the certificate?
In other words, if he's named as father, does that mean he was present at the registration?
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Another question, a bit off the wall:
Who was Edward Henson?
He is in the Stephenson household in 1901; born Bunny, Notts (in Basford reg district) in 1880.
He's with his mother Sarah and his younger sister Nellie in 1891. Sarah is single and working as a servant in 1881 - no sign of Edward. Sarah seems not to have married.
I can see a possible birth reg for Nellie Henson on freeBMD but nothing for Edward. No baptism for either child either, as far as I can see. Was Edward registered under a different name? Neither can I find any trace of him after 1901.
Did he borrow the Stephenson surname, or was he in reality an illegitimate part of the family? Or is he a total red herring?
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Another question, a bit off the wall:
Who was Edward Henson?
He is in the Stephenson household in 1901; born Bunny, Notts (in Basford reg district) in 1880.
He's with his mother Sarah and his younger sister Nellie in 1891. Sarah is single and working as a servant in 1881 - no sign of Edward. Sarah seems not to have married.
I can see a possible birth reg for Nellie Henson on freeBMD but nothing for Edward. No baptism for either child either, as far as I can see. Was Edward registered under a different name? Neither can I find any trace of him after 1901.
Did he borrow the Stephenson surname, or was he in reality an illegitimate part of the family? Or is he a total red herring?
I think it possible that Edward was registered as Edwin Young Henson in 1880 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XNV-JQB and is listed as Edwin in 1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXD-5LQ8
There is a tree on Anc that lists him as marrying Gwendoline Mary Stevenson (daughter of Jesse Stevenson) on 06 Feb 1915 at St Marys Ilkeston as Edwin Henson and him being killed on 29 Mar 1918 at France and Flanders. Although no age is listed by the record of his death his birth place is listed as Nottingham with a military connection to Ilkeston
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Oh well, it was a thought! (Good sleuthing, Kay!)
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Hi Annie65115,
As my gran called herself Edith Annie Stevenson I don't think there would be any problem in regard to the father's name being on the birth certificate. To be honest I think it would be quite rare for both parents to be present when registering a birth, don't you agree??? The father needing to be at work or the mother surrounded by kids and dirty nappies.
Sorry for my lack of response over the last couple of days but I just didn't have time to log on. Thanks to both yourself and Kay99. Glad to have you in my corner.
Towdlass
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I honestly don't know. I've noticed that quite a view of my ancestor's birth certs have the father as the informant; and I thought there was some sort of legislation stating that if the couple is unmarried, the father's name can only be put on the cert with the father's consent - and he would have to be there in person to give that consent.
I've seen births in the 1920s and 1930s where the parents are an established couple, albeit unmarried; and the child is issued with two certificates, one with the mother's name and one with the father's. That only happened if the father was present for the registration.
I have no idea how closely this was policed. If it wasn't policed at all, then given the "shame" that we are told went with being illegitimate, I don't know why more children didn't have a made-up father's name on the certificate (I know some did!)
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I know what you mean and I'm sure that is the case in some instances. I will check it though just to make sure. My thoughts were that my gran was behaving as though they were married and changed her name to Stevenson. I felt sure that in her mind if you can convince everyone that you are a married couple then that is almost as good as it being true.
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I just had a look on Find My Past and I can't find any suitable births in the name of Toulson. I assume that if two had been issued for each child they would be listed in each name? I've checked the individual birth certificates and the informant in each case was Edith Annie Stevenson.
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This looks like Edward's baptsim ( Francis Edward Olwyn Stevenson) in Hallam Fields, Derbyshire - at least you know where he came from
Shirl
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBFL-NPF
Hi Shirl,
Just found the record that he joined the navy in 1911 and served abroad until 1920. Fascinating thing to try to read but which means he couldn't have fathered 4 children in Sheffield during this same time. Back to the drawing board.
Pat
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Jesse was born in or around 1870. I've followed him through the various census ending in 1911 where he is a widower living with his 8 children - Mary 18, Alwyn 16, Beryl 11, Alfred 9, Albert 7, Harold 5, Wilfred 2, Dennis 1 month.
In 1901 his wife Sarah Jane is still alive and the 3 oldest children are shown by Gwendoline (Mary) 7, Francis Edward (Alwyn) 6, Caroline (Beryl) 1.
1891 finds him boarding with John and Hannah Stevenson, He marries Sarah Jane Barber in 1892 in Basford, Derbyshire.
Just to get your records straight
he married Sarah Jane Barber 18 th April 1892 Ilkeston Derbyshire
there is no place named Basford in Derbyshire - however Ilkeston is a subdistrict of Basford Registration District which covers parts of Derbyshire and parts of Nottinghamshire
Suz
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Oh right Suz. I got Basford from the Freebmd site which shows their marriage as being in Basford. I really don't know that area so am getting quite confused by Wysall, Basford and Ilkeston. I think that they are all quite close together. ?????
Towdlass
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On free BMD it gives registration districts NOT towns/villages etc where the event took place - it is the same for all over England and Wales- -at first glance all you can glean from FreeBMD is that the marriage took place somewhere in the Basford registration district but if you click on Basford it will bring up list of the places which are withinthat registration district.
Wysall is about 15 miles from Ilkeston -but is in a different county (Nottinghamshire)
Wysall and Basford are both in Nottinghamshire but are about 12 miles apart
Basford is in Nottinghamshire and Ilkeston is in Derbyshire and they are about 9 miles apart
It sounds complicated but is quite straightforward when you get used to it - some registration districts cover parts of 3 counties.
I was born in a place which is partly in one county and partly in another - the whole place is in the same registration district
Suz
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Thank you for explaining that Suz. I doubt that I will remember it all so may have to write it down for future reference. This is the kind of info you can only get from someone local I think. Once again thanks for making it clear.
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It would appear highly possible the same Georgina Stevenson born 1921 Ecclesall Bierlow registration district in the Sheffield area, daughter of Edward Stevenson, was married to Eric Hobson Oct to Dec quarter 1939 in Sheffield registration district.
Maybe these Hobson family descendants of today ? are doing family history and may have past down info being records or verbal past down family knowledge on Edward Stevenson of Sheffield origins and death. ???