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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Glynm on Wednesday 20 January 16 15:49 GMT (UK)
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I have come up against a brick wall with my 3xGGrandfather the ubiquitous John Jones and his wife Margaret who were the parents of Abel Jones (1827-1897).
The only clues I have are from Abel's baptism record at Llanddulas Church on 26 August 1827. At the time the family were living at Rhyd y foel and John's occupation was Labourer.
In the 1841 Census Abel (aged 15) was a Quarryman resident (presumably a lodger) with Evan Davies, Gorlan-Penmachno. Abel married in Penmachno on 1 June 1850, his father John's occupation was now Farmer and I presume was still alive since the word "deceased" does not appear against his name. I also presume that Abel had some education in his early life since he signed his name on marriage register. In later life Abel was a minor poet with a poetic name "Abel Colwyn" which might indicate that he had a connection to Old Colwyn when a boy.
Any help would be appreciated.
Glyn
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Duplicate post
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=739659.
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Hello Glyn. Have I got the right baptism in Llanddulas on August 26th 1827? The image I have seen is for a Jacob or Abel Jones.
Mike
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Hi Mike
Yes, that is the correct record. The Jacob seems to been added after Abel was written, not sure if John and Margaret couldn't make up their minds what to call their son. In all further references in censuses, newspaper reports and his MI the name Jacob is not used.
Glyn
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Hi Glyn. I assume you found John and Margaret in 1841?.If not there was a record of two people of that name living at Cae Gwyn, Penmachno which was in Caernarfonshire. They had 2 daughters, Anne b. abt 1831 and Catherine b. abt 1835. I found baptisms for Catherine in 1835 and Anne in 1831. Both had John and Margaret as parents.
Mike
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Hi the Abel you have living with Evan Davies is on census ref HO107/1395/ 5/23/ 6
John/Margaret etc are:-
John Jones 45 occ Mason
Margaret 40
Ann 9
Catherine 5
Hannah Williams 20
Residing at Cae Gwynn, Penmachno
Census Ref HO107/1395/ 5/38 / 15
Keyboard86
EDIT not sure if this is the correct John/Margaret as in 1851 all born Penmachno is what looks like same family above but with the addition of a John b c 1827?
Census Ref HO107/2508/40/13
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There is a possible younger son than Abel. John Jones, baptised 10th September 1826 in Penmachno; parents John and Margaret. In the 1851 census John and Margaret along with Ann and Catherine plus John Jnr were living at Maesol, Llanrwst, Denbighshire and John senior was a farmer of 100 acres.
Mike
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Thank you Mike and Keyboard86 for your detective work. I hadn't found the record in the 1941 Census for John and Margaret but I have now.
Initially I felt, that due to John's occupation being a mason, that they could not be Abel's parents since he should have been either an agricultural labourer or farmer. However, the 1851 census ticks one of the boxes in that John is a farmer which Abel and Elizabeth's marriage record in 1850 confirms. The John and Margaret ages are also about what we would expect. I will have to do a bit more investigation.
Thank you again for your help.
Glyn
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Hi Glyn, the 1861 for John/Margaret looks to be:-
John Jones 66
Margaret 60
John 33
Ann Davies 29 Daughter/Married
Margaret Davies 4
Residing at Rhydidion Fawr, Llansannan
Census Ref RG09/4302/9/11
Marriage 25th October 1856 Parish Church Llansannan
Jeremiah Davies occ Farmer abode Blaenywerglodd Father Thomas occ Farmer
Ann Jones abode Rhydidion Fawr Father John Jones occ Farmer
One of the witnesses was a Catherine Jones
Keyboard86
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They certainly got about but I see that John has a larger farm in 1861. So far I have not been able to find John and Margaret in the 1871 census but their son John has a farm his own at Dol Pennaner, Llanfair Barrog. His sister Anne and brother-in-law Jeremiah are also resident.
Thanks again.
Glyn
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Hi again, and marriage of Catherine:-
Hugh Jones 23 occ Farmer abode Cefn Roch Father Evan occ Farmer
Catherine Jones 24 abode Rhydidion Fawr Father John occ Farmer
Witnesses Evan and Ellen Jones
19th August 1859 Llansannan
Keyboard86
EDIT in 1881 John Jones 53 b Penmachno still has Jeremiah Davies & Anne and Family with him.
Census Ref RG11/5530/67/29
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Although the Jones family followed in this thread ticked a number of boxes I couldn't find any convincing evidence that they were related to Abel Jones. However, on revisiting the evidence and downloading the three images for the parish records of the marriages of Abel, Anne and Catherine I found the same signature for Catherine Jones which now convinces me that the John and Margaret Jones were Abel's parents.
I am now continuing to research this family but have come up against a brick wall concerning the deaths of John and Margaret. As stated previously they were in living Rhydiddion Fawr, Llansannan on the 1861 Census. I assume they died between 1861 and 1869 since the rest of the family had by then moved to Llanfair talhaearn. I have checked the probates to no avail. Any help gratefully accepted.
Glyn
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Hi
I have been through the Llansannan burial records for the period 1861 to 1871 without success in finding a record for John and Margaret Jones. I notice that there is a CM chapel in the village, Capel Coffa Henry Rees, with a graveyard and wondered if they were buried there. On searching Rootschat I also note that LeeW set up a web site www.clwyd-mi.co.uk which includes photographs of the grave stones in that chapel. It requires e-mailing the owner of the website to allow access for downloading but there is no e-mail address and the button does not seem to work. Does anyone know if this website is still in operation?
Glyn
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Feel slightly foolish in that I had forgotten that Lee had given me a password for the Clwyd-mi site four years ago. Superb site.
After trawling through over 400 photographs of gravestones in Capel Corr Henry Rees graveyard I eventually found one for John and Margaret's daughter Anne and her husband Jeremiah Davies plus their daughter Ellen and a child I previously did not know had existed. Although I could not find one for John and Margaret this might be due to 150 years weathering of the stone making some inscriptions illegible. I have now contacted Llansannan to ask if the chapel still had the burial records from the 1860's.
Glyn