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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: gill baker on Thursday 21 January 16 13:16 GMT (UK)
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Need some help folks.
Our English ancestor Edmund married Charlotte in London in 1827 and had a son born 1828 also in Lomdon. Both Church entries seen. They also had a son Robert born 1832, London and went into merchant navy. Hot his mates record and later death etc in Edinburgh. However it is Edmund we are interested in.
Edmund was a commercial sales man and he was in London Gazette for 1831 for some financial dealing.
After 1831 nothing for them noth thought they might have turned up in 1841 or Register of deaths from 1837 but no sign of either.
Any suggestions?
thanks
Gill
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Death prior to 1837?
Have you found Robert and other son (name?) in 1841 - is it just Edmund missing or the whole family? What about later censuses?
If Robert ended up in Scotland, maybe the whole family had moved there when he was a child - have you checked Scotland?
Whereabouts in London is this all taking place? London is a BIG area!
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hello
Not sure about death pre-1837. Searched all censuses in UK for 1841 onwards - nothing for Edmund or Charlotte in England, Scotland or elsewhere.
Edmund is on this page with London addresses - hope this might help?
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WfQuAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA393&lpg=PA393&dq=%22edmund+bach+glover+bartholomew+close&source=bl&ots=GYy5QEahPs&sig=Dzf5dUdEPdGSsBclpBx5E5KUluM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji7LCVgrvKAhVCwxoKHYCaD5AQ6AEINjAD#v=onepage&q=%22edmund%20bach%20glover%20bartholomew%20close&f=false
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marriage 12 May 1827 All Souls st Marylebone London
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Is this him in 1841? Leicester Place St Anne soho
Edmund Bach born foreign parts 1805 age 36
can't read his occupation but it fills the whole box!
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Hi
1841 not him. That Bach worked in British Museum. Not same occupation.
Thanks for 1827 info but as I said above we have that and birth of his child in 1828 also called Edmund
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and had a son born 1828 also in Lomdon.
Son called Edmund bap 2 mar 1828
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At the baptism of the son Edmund in 1828, Edmund senior is a Glover. Address then was Bartholomew Close. Baptism at St Sepulchre Holborn
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Yes that's right. The occupation ties in with the information in the copy on Google.
After that there is nothing. I did think Edmund and Charlotte must have died before 1837 but have found nothing pre or post 1837 for either anywhere in UK.
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Have you been able to trace Robert on census until his death? I know it is Edmund you are after but it might give some clues - did he marry for instance? **
**yes I see he did in 1857, wife Eliza. Wonder if any family witnessed the marriage and if father is shown as deceased that kind of info :)
In 1861 an aunt and cousin are living with them names are
Margaret Cameron 45 and son George 12 both born Scotland.
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There's a Charlotte Bach marriage in Mar 1840 St George Hanover Square but there are 5 possible grooms :-\
Correct spouse John William Barker marriage 11 feb 1840 but can only see index record so don't know if she was your Charlotte.
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Have you been able to trace Robert on census until his death? I know it is Edmund you are after but it might give some clues - did he marry for instance? **
**yes I see he did in 1857, wife Eliza. Wonder if any family witnessed the marriage and if father is shown as deceased that kind of info :)
Yes, I agree the marriage entry for Robert Bach and Eliza Home, 4 May 1857 Leith, would be worth looking at on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for the cost of a few credits. Scottish certificates name both parents of the parties so you should be able to find out whether either or both of Robert's parents are said to be deceased.
NB I suggest searching for it in the name of Eliza Home, as no results are coming up on a search for Robert Bach. It may be indexed as Robert Back but I can't be sure.
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hello all
Thank you for your replies. I did look at all the census entries in Scotland. Also looked at the marriage. Both parents are named but not mentioned as deceased. I believe this doesnt necessarily mean they were still alive in 1857.
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Robert who married in 1857 died in 164 falling from a ship. The captain notified the death but did not give parents names on death certificate.
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I did think Edmund and Charlotte must have died before 1837 but have found nothing pre or post 1837 for either anywhere in UK.
I had to wait for 25 years before the burial of one of my ancestors was indexed so it may just be a case of having to wait until that particular register is made accessible.
Have you found a baptism for Robert (I can't see one) or an 1841 census record?
Debra :)
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I've been looking too but can't see Robert either.
Was thinking "Bach" could easily be written differently but still not having much luck :(
Can you search deaths in Scotland easily? I'm not as familiar with Scottish records.
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thank you all for posting.
Cannot find anything for Robert in 1832. However, in his seamans record it just says Oct 1832 - no place of birth given.
Robert drowned in Glasgiw 1864. Bit on death certificate there is no parents names given.
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It's a long shot but what about Brooks for Bach?
1841 there is an Edmund Brooks age 14 in Southwark Surrey not born in county
He looks to be with a Miles family
Henry 40 a coffee taster or toaster or maybe it's roaster!
Mary Ann 34
Mary Ann 4
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I don't think Brooks for Bach works.
I think this may be a lost cause or prmanent brick wall! ;)
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The 1840 marriage (John William BARKER and Charlotte BACH) that Milliepede mentioned does seem to be "your" Charlotte. Image is on FindMyPast.
She's a widow of Conduit St-father Alexander Phillip MAYLAND occ:farmer.
John William BARKER-occ:Gent. of Maddox St.-father James BARKER occ:Gent.
Witneses were Joel? GRANT and Ann Elizabeth MAYLAND.
I think FindMyPast is free this weekend?
Maureen
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Thank you Maureen will vist Findmypast.
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Maureen and all
just found Charlotte's birth 1810 and her sister Ann Elixabeth 1813 anf her father's birth 1785 and marriage in 1807 to Anne Hawes.
Not the actual church entries byr good info.
Now for Edmund he must be somewhere!
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That's great so it was Charlotte remarrying well done for confirming that one Maureen :D
So Edmund must have died 1832-1840.
Can anyone find Charlotte in 1841? I looked when the marriage was a possible but didn't come up with anything.
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Actual birth for Charlotte is down as 8 April 1808 but baptised 25 March 1810.
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Actual birth for Charlotte is down as 8 April 1808 but baptised 25 March 1810.
Her husband may have been much the same age - there's a 5 June 1808 baptism at St Botolph, Aldgate for John William Barker (born 24 March 1808), son of James and Sarah of Upper East Smithfield.
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There's also an Alexander Phillip Mayland born around 1817 - possibly a brother. With wife Ann in 1851.
marriage 1842 groom is a porter widower * father same name but a tailor so change from farmer in 2 years :-\
bride ann hunter father james
One of the witnesses is an Emma Mayland. Digressing from Edmund but all grist to the mill!
* first marriage 1836 to mary ann appleton
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I don't see them on any census but I wonder if John William BARKER is the one who died 10 Sep 1871
according to Probate records on A*try.
He was a widower and a gentleman.
Maureen
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Thanks again for your posts much appreciated.
It would seem Edmund dies between 1832 - 1840.
Edmund and Charliotte had a son Edmund born in 1828/29 but no sign of him either. Bapt in All souls, Lanham place. I think he must have died shortly afterwards.
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Been on Findmypast free weekend. Think I may have cracked it. Edmund Bach born in Hereford 1805. Son of one Thomas Robert Bach a glover. Given that Edmund is described as a Glover's traveller in 1830 bankruptcy - then there is that and the name Robert. Robert was one of Edmund's sons born 1832.
Dont know if I can rely on this though.
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Hi
re the marriage above. I cant find this on Findmypast. Trying to get copy. Any help or suggestions? Thanks :)
The 1840 marriage (John William BARKER and Charlotte BACH) that Milliepede mentioned does seem to be "your" Charlotte. Image is on FindMyPast.
She's a widow of Conduit St-father Alexander Phillip MAYLAND occ:farmer.
John William BARKER-occ:Gent. of Maddox St.-father James BARKER occ:Gent.
Witneses were Joel? GRANT and Ann Elizabeth MAYLAND.
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I am also interested in this family.
I cannot find Charlotte and John William in any census or know what happened to them after 1840. Can anyone shed any light?
Especially Charlotte maiden name Mayland as above
William
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hello
Can anyone name the church where the wedding took place?
The 1840 marriage (John William BARKER and Charlotte BACH) that Milliepede mentioned does seem to be "your" Charlotte. Image is on FindMyPast.
She's a widow of Conduit St-father Alexander Phillip MAYLAND occ:farmer.
John William BARKER-occ:Gent. of Maddox St.-father James BARKER occ:Gent.
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Can anyone help with my last request?
Bill
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The image is on FindMyPast Parish Marriages in Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers). Charlotte's surname has been transcribed as BACK.
Marriage was at St George's Hanover Square (the parish church).
Maureen
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Thank you Maureen.
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Hello
I am also interested in Charlotte her new husband post marriage in 1840. I cannot find them in the 1841 or 1851 census, in fact any census. I'd love to find them and of course date and place of Charlotte's death. But no luck to date.
Grateful for any help. Thanks for reading.