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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: tempogold on Friday 22 January 16 07:29 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Not sure if this should be on this or the English board. Around 1885 after the death of their Father Julia Isabella Latham b1872 Cork ,Richard James b 1869 Cork and their brother Thomas Edward Latham b Kent 1874 sailed to Sydney or Melbourne. The family where living in Kent and are on the 1881 English census . They had been sent by their family in Kent to join an Aunt in Hillston . Her name was Mrs Andrew Wright ( Sarah). But I can not find them on any ships records --we have been looking for years so hope someone can help me.
Its possible they could have sailed latter but they where in Hillston before 1891 when their younger siblings joined them.
In Dec 1890 the 4 younger siblings left England after the death of their mother . I have found them on the Passenger lists to Victoria 1852-1923. They arrived in feb 1891 on the Ship Murrumbidge. The younger children were Alfred,Charles,Sarah and Violet age 8.
Not sure were else to look and would very much appreciate help in solving this mystery .
Thank You .
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here is an obit for Richard James LATHAM who died in 1949
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article127584643
regards
Ros
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Thank You . And it confirms what we always understood that he and his brother and sister went to Australia around 1885. But still hoping the actual records are out there . Unfortunately few of the v extended family are in contact and understandably personal records/papers even family stories have tended not to survive--not surprising given the ages of the children. Their experiences may well be something they wanted to forget . Do you know when census returns started to be kept ?
I wonder if there is one for Andrew and Sarah Wright at Hillston/Hay showing the wright family and their Latham Cousins. Have not seen any so far .
Thank You
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I can't see them on the assisted passenger list.
You can browse through the digitised passenger lists of ships arriving in NSW here
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316#the-list-of-ships
I had a quick look under single men in the ships which arrived 1885 and 1886 but didn't see them. Perhaps you have more patience than I do. ;D As they were young children then they maybe under "families" with whoever escorted them out ???
From memory (?) the 1841 census and the 1891, 1901 census survive to some extent.
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The NSW 1891 census
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/census-records/1891-census/1891-census
regards
Ros
adding : only householders are listed
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A little background on Sir Charles LATHAM on visiting his brother http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article127584102
regards
Ros
But here is a photo and a more detailed history for Sir Charles LATHAM
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/latham-sir-charles-george-7103
and his WW1 service record http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=7379832
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here is Thomas Edward LATHAM's WW1 service record - sadly he was killed in action
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=7378068
And his grave http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1455583/LATHAM,%20THOMAS%20EDWARD
regards
Ros
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By the way there seems to be another brother William Oliver LATHAM who arrived in NSW too.
He died in 1926
From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
LATCHAM William Oliver, father Thomas, mother Isabella, Sydney
Funeral notices for William Oliver LATHAM http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article16305408 mentions familiar names such as HAINES and McDOWELL etc
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There is a probate record at NSW state archives for Julia Isabella MURPHY http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\766190
I can photograph this for you the next time I am there if you wish.
Ros
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Really Fantastic Ros thank you . I think the children's fares were paid for by an uncle. certainly the younger ones were.Really interesting documents. And yes would love a copy of the Probate etc of Julia Isabella Murphy . Now back to those shipping lists---It will take some time --fingers crossed.
Very Many Thanks.
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NSW Electoral Roll 1903 RIVERINA, polling Hillston
LATHAM
Elizabeth, Hythe Farm, farmer
Richard, Hythe Farm, farmer
None listed at that polling place for the surname WRIGHT.
If you have access to FindMyPast, they have a later version of the Roll, 1903/4 and it may have search options to read across many of the 1903/4 rolls. Mine is hardcopy, and each polling place within each electorate is a separate document. There’s around 100 polling places in this one electorate.
It was not compulsory to enrol, and the 1903 roll was the first to include females. To be eligible to enrol you needed to be a local resident, aged 21 years or more, and a British Subject (by birth or naturalisation). There was no such thing as Australian Citizenship until 1949.
I will have a look through the other polling places later. But at present FindMyPast has a free weekend :) for their Au version.
Cheers, JM
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Ros, I think there should also be a probate packet for Thomas Edward Latham.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15743683
Dee
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You're right Dee :) How did I miss it last night? http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1751271
I'll photograph that one too
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:)
I've found a few FindMyPast records but can't look at the images. It's could be FindMyPast being overworked this free weekend, but it is more likely the very slow internet speed here at the moment.....no landline phone connection and slow like the really slow old dial up internet of days gone by!
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I think the children's fares were paid for by an uncle. certainly the younger ones were.Really interesting documents.
If they came steerage with passage paid, it may be that they would not be named on the ship's list.
Though you would think that "the authorities" would name children specifically, even if just to 'cover themselves' if anything went wrong. But maybe they didn't think like that in 1885 :P :P
Dawn M
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Interesting . Will have a look at FindMyPast as its free this weekend. Didn't know that some passengers may not be listed . The younger ones sailed on the Murrumbidge and it was arranged by the Co Houlder Brothers and Co of London who ran ships to Australia and New Zealand . Found the younger children's names. In both cases the children travelled with out a guardian --how frightening at such a young age .
many Thanks
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You could also try TROVE - http://trove.nla.gov.au and put their names between quotes so you don't get references to single words.
Might just be a notice or something in the SMH for them.
Dawn M
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Thanks will have a go.
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I just found a pamphlet from NSW State Records on Shipping and Arrival Records (dated March 2013 so reasonably up to date). It indicates that the practice of not naming unassisted , i.e. paid for, passengers was "prior to 1854" . However, most of their indexes - and those produced by others such as Pastkeys etc. seem to end around then - though I haven't checked NSWSR website to get an update on that date.
They say [as at 03/2013 anyway] :
Passenger lists are arranged chronologically by arrival of the ship. As there are no comprehensive indexes to passengers arriving after 1855, and if the name of the ship and the exact year of arrival are unknown, researchers will need to try to determine the date of arrival from other sources.
These comments are for NSW arrivals only, of course. They could have come in via Melbourne or Queensland or Western Australia. So when you look at TROVE, think of Victorian & Queensland & WA papers, not just the Sydney ones. Names of arrivals by the latest ship were often published in the papers of the day, presumably so any relatives could know they had arrived. :)
BTW I think you will find that the name of the ship the second lot of children came on is Murrumbidgee - double e at the end. the Murrumbidgee is a rural area in southern NSW. When I googled the spelling you gave, it only gave me Murrumbidgee.
Dawn M
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Thank you for this .
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http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-1
Highlights the key State records and available indexes, relating to passengers arriving in New South Wales, 1788-1922. While most of the records relate to passengers disembarking in Sydney, records of arrivals in other ports, that are held by State Records, are also included.
and one of the indexes within that period of time includes the Unassisted Immigrants 1842-1855 which is likely the index with little info on passengers, including of course in many cases just a number next to the heading 'steerage' .... :)
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-immigration-and-shipping-records/index-to-unassisted-immigrants and the associated PastKeys pdf :)
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/documents/pastkeys/UAIntro3.pdf
Cheers, JM
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Greville's Post Office Directory 1875
HILLSTON
L WRIGHT, station manager, Cowl Cowl.
A FREEMAN, station manager, Cowl Cowl
Charles LYNN, carpenter, Cowl Cowl
A K MOLESWORTH, squatter, Cowl Cowl,
Walter SYNNOTT, squatter, Cowl Cowl
Here's a live link to the 1872 Grevilles PO directory :
http://www.family.joint.net.au/index.php?mid=1&cid=11
Cheers, JM
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Saw all those you listed, JM, but they are too early for this OP's people
:) :) :)
Dawn M
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There's WRIGHT at Cowl Cowl. :) in 1875.... so I am thinking .... could L WRIGHT be connected to Andrew WRIGHT :)
if there is one for Andrew and Sarah Wright at Hillston/Hay showing the wright family and their Latham Cousins.
Cheers, JM
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Re the L WRIGHT in the 1875 Grevilles...
NSW ER 1878 MURRUMBIDGEE (Oxley Police District)
Lendon WRIGHT, leaseholder, Hillston, Lachlan River.
Cheers, JM
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Lindon WRIGHT aged 42 years died 18 July 1889, in Tasmania.
He was late of Langlea Hillston NSW.
NSW State Records have Lindon George WRIGHT dd 18 July 1889, probate 15 Nov 1889
http://search.records.nsw.gov.au/items/312262
and Lindon George WRIGHT of Langlea, same dd, and duty paid 11 Dec 1889
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=15&new=1
There may be family papers in those files, perhaps mention of Sarah, the Latham aunt :) or Andrew her husband....
Cheers, JM
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Hi tempogold,
Not sure if you have seen this but thought you might be interested:
http://www.bellsite.id.au/helen_tree/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_11/P8191.html (http://www.bellsite.id.au/helen_tree/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_11/P8191.html)
It doesn't mention when Julia and her brothers came to Australia but there might be some other information that can help!
Kind regards,
Andrea
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Ros already mentionedThe obit in The Hillston Spectator and Lachlan River Advertiser newspaper, dated Thursday 29 September 1949, for Richard James (Dick) LATHAM of Hillston. It states that he arrived in Australia "64 years ago" making the date of arrival 1885, if this is correct. :-\
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/127584643
Judith
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Andrew Lindon WRIGHT was a music teacher, residing Illillawa, :) Irrigation area.
Clarence Wright was Andrew's son
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/139996981 5 Nov 1895 Riverine Grazier
Cheers, JM
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I am having trouble catching up--thank you. Yes we think the older children may have come out in 1884/5 after their fathers Death but no records .And its a mystery why I cant find them but found the younger children. We don't know if they came together or Thomas Edward came latter -may still have been in England 1887.
Not sure what the link is between Andrew Wright and L Wright --there is one but he is not his father who was John. Andrew latter added Lyndon to his name. Anyhow he died 1928 at Peak Hill Nsw. His wife Sarah had died much earlier in 1896 while her young niece and Nephews were barely teenagers--a very tough start. Lots of links from you so thank you will get working on them. had not seen that tree but its correct and I recognise the authors name from Ancestry .
Thank you all.
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Is it possible that Andrew and Lindon George WRIGHT were brothers?
Cheers, JM
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A couple of random thoughts which may (or may not) be helpful, no real evidence, just more lines of enquiry. Some of it taken from on-line trees (which I haven't check thoroughly!) Some of it you probably have already :-\
According to the information on the site given by mclachlan
http://www.bellsite.id.au/helen_tree/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_11/P8191.html
there was at least one other family relative in Australia:
Samuel John LATHAM, b 1857 (cork Ireland), d 1933 Kyneton, Victoria. Samuel married Margaret MCHUGH in Victoria (Kyneton according to his wife's obit) in 1881 and had children with her in Victoria in the 1880/90s, so he must have arrived before 1881. However I can't see his arrival. Most of the children seem to have been registered in Kyneton.
Samuel's death notice shows that he died in Kyneton
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11688770
Obit for his wife, Margaret d Kyneton, 26 February 1917
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/129584811
Kyneton is about 90k north of Melbourne.
I note that Sarah LATHAM and Andrew WRIGHT were married at Echuca, Victoria, March 1873 so Aunt Sarah had been in Australia for at least 11 years before the children came to her. Sarah and Andrew's children were registered at Moama which is just over the river from Echuca. They had been in Moama for their last child's birth in 1881 and were in Hillston by 1891 (death of a child).
I mention these items to show the connection to Victorian records and I would have thought it likely that the children entered via Victoria. The Riverina district is an area mostly in NSW but due north of Melbourne. Historically connections to/with Victoria have been almost greater than to NSW, although, of course, it's mostly actually in the state of NSW. The river Murray is the border between Victoria and NSW and there are many towns such as Echuca/Moama which are only a bridge apart but administratively in two different states. I see also that Andrew WRIGHT's family lived in Victoria so
Sorry - this has probably been s diversion from the main topic.
I wonder if the children came in the care of another family/couple and were, perhaps, listed on the shipping records with a different surname. I did try a trawl through the PROV unassisted immigration lists for a "Julia" whose age and arrival date might have been a possible but came up with nothing.
As I said - pure speculation and they may well have arrived through NSW, so not much help at all!
Judith