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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: rachelralph on Tuesday 26 January 16 16:59 GMT (UK)
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i seem to be on every county board recently! im trying to fill in all the blanks on my husbands direct lines so i seem to be looking for little bits and pieces of infomation.
1881 census
Robert Allen b abt 1828 keanton (kennignton)
sarah Allen b abt 1825 horley wife
john allen b abt 1860 reigate son
Ethel m Allen b abt 1879 reigate GRANDAUGHTER
i assumed at first that John was the father but he is unmarried, not widowed. not impossible but unlikely. i then started looking at robert and sarahs other sons, with the surname given for etherl as ALLEN i assumed that it must have been a widowed son, rather than an illigitimate child to start with. however im having trouble pining down the other sons exactly. lots of census returns and possible marriages but nothing concrete.
i then realised that if the one of the sons was widowed with child surely the deceased mothers family would take the child in? or at least this has been my experience. so i started to look at the daughters. i still cant pinpoint any of them enough to say Ethel belongs to them.
can anyone find this little girls baptism?
added- other children of robert and sarah are
George 1844
William1850
Robert 1852
Thomas 1852
Catherine 1855
ELiza Davies 1857
John 1859
Elizabeth 1865
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Possible:
31 JAn 1879
Ethel Mary Allen, dtr of Robert and Annie Winter Allen of Nutley Lane, Reigate, Warehouseman.
Born 18 Oct 1878
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oh my days youre a star! whilst i was adding all the other children to my post, you went and found her parents. i know this is right as nutley lane is the address given in a buriel record for robert sr
not only that but you answered another question as im having trouble finding the spouses of all the children.
thank you ever so much. x
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Marriage
28 Feb 1875 Reigate St Marys
Robert Allen full age, bachelor, warehouseman, of Nutley Lane, father Robert Allen, labourer
to
Annie Winter Wood, full Age, spinster, of Nutley Lane, father Charles Wood, mariner
Witnesses Robert Allen and KAte Allen
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i have roberts death as 1878. that would partly explain why she was with hr grandparents although i will need to look and see what happened to her mother. thank you so much x
ADDED
MMM maybe he didnt die in 1878. not sure where i found that infomation? now i can see a 1881 census for a annie w allen and her husband robert living in Bermondsey. although roberts birth place is slightly off.
this is what happens when your a beginner and you copy and paste from others trees. i must have done this when i first started years ago and not looked at it since. grrr lol
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Ethel is still with the Allen grandparents in 1891
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Robert must be dead by 1886, as Annie remarries:
Marriage
St Andrew and St Philip, Kensal Green
14 March 1886
William Charles McCarthy 36 widower Joiner of 82 Walterton Rd, father William James McCarthy , steward
to Annie Winter Allen , 40 , widow, of 34 Circus Rd, father Charles Wood, Mariner
witnesses Herbert Reamer Gedge and MaryAnn Gedge
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yes i just found that one too. i just did a quick look for a death for robert and i cant see him. the 1881 census does seem right apart from roberts place of birth, it seems odd that ethel would be ling with her grandparents while her parents are down the road? unless im reading too much into it and she was just visiting that night?
there is a death of a robert allen in 1878 reigate
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A possible for 1891, though ages and occupation don't match the marriage so I am not sure:
21 Grays Inn Buildings, Holborn
William McCarthy 32 bookbinder bn City of London
Annie 32 bn Clerkenwell
William 6
John 3 and a half childen bn Clerkenwell
Modified : THIS ISNT THEM, see next post.
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Cancel that 1891!
Here they are - for sure! Annie has one child from her marriage to Allen with her.
1891
82 Walterton Rd, Paddington
Wm C McCarthy 44 carpenter joiner bn Brighton Sussex
Annie W 46 bn Lyme Regis Dorset
Lizzie 13 dtr
William 12 son
Fred 6 son
Bertie 7 son
Annie S Allen 15 step daughter bn Reigate Surrey
Belle Mcarthy 9 dtr
McCarthy children bn Paddington
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And back in 1881, here is little Annie -
Alexadras Orphanage, Islington
Annie Sarah Allen 5 bn Reigate Surrey
I wonder what happened with Annie Winter, making her unable to care for her children after she was widowed? Maybe she had some sort of breakdown or something.
Now we have her year of birth and pob from 1891 Ill see if I can get her in 1881.
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Here she is, still in Reigate
Alma Road
H/H of George Simpson and his family
Annie W Allen 37 widow housemaid bn Lyme Regis
So maybe she was just having to work for a living and all she could do was a live in servant. But as Edith was cared for by rellies locally, what a shame Annie jnr wasn't aswell.
(I remember Alma Road - I used to get a bus there home from school many many years ago!!)
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wow you are a wonder! i went away for dinner and to feed my army of men and you have solved my puzzle and not only that you have added meat to the bare bone of this story. can i just summarise here?
robert allen died 1878. his wife annie w allen is then working as a servant while one of her daughters is cared for by the grandparents and the other one is shipped off to an orphanage. then annie remarries and she takes annie away from the orphanage but leaves ethel with the grandparents?
its a very sad tale. thank you so much for your help with this. it felt all wrong having the little ethel without her parents.
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That's what it appears to be. Unless Ethel was normally with her mum but happened to be with granny on both census nights. Unlikely with Annie having a live in job, and the fact that the other little girl was in an orphanage in London. Seems a sad state of affairs doesn't it? But we never know all the facts, and only see a "window" of the situation every 10 years, so we are not really in a postion to judge.
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you are very right. i love doing all family research but what i love the most is when you come across an ancestor with a bit more of a story. not your usual 'ag lab' every 10 years. not that i don't appreciate that these farmers worked hard and surely in between census' had very busy interesting lives some of them, but my favourite ones are the ones who have records aside from the census returns. something with a bit of a story to their lives.
we have a surrogate baby in my immediate family so that one is going to be interesting to research for family years from now ;D
thank you very much for your help x