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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: johntosh on Tuesday 26 January 16 18:49 GMT (UK)
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Hello all. I'm developing a family tree for the Tosh/Christie family of Coleraine. I've reached a bit of a road block, and I wonder if anyone can shed any light.
I'm a grandchild of Matthew Henry Tosh and Margaret Ann Christie of of Nursery Avenue, Coleraine. I believe Matthew's father was William Tosh, married to Mary Ann McCandless. It seems William's father was James Tosh. I can't find any information about James's origins or family.
Margaret's father was Alexander Christie, son of Samuel Christie. Margaret's mother was a Margaret Ann. Beyond that, I have no information.
I would be very grateful for any information anyone has that will help me progress further. Many thanks!
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Your grandfather wasn't the Matt Tosh who taught woodworking at the Tech by any chance?
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Do you have any approximate birth years for your grandparents please?
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Your grandfather wasn't the Matt Tosh who taught woodworking at the Tech by any chance?
Yes he was that Matt Tosh.
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Do you have any approximate birth years for your grandparents please?
Matt was born in 1907, and Margaret was born in 1909, both in Coleraine.
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In that case you will find them both on the free 1911 census of ireland (1901 is also free).
Matthew's with father William aged 45 - mother Mary 45 and about 8 or 9 siblings.
See
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002806846/
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In that case you will find them both on the free 1911 census of ireland (1901 is also free).
Matthew's with father William aged 45 - mother Mary 45 and about 8 or 9 siblings.
See
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002806846/
Thanks. I have that information though. It's their predecessors I am having trouble finding - earlier than their grandparents.
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If William's age is correct on the census records - I am finding difficulty in seeing either a civil birth registration or a baptism for him in Antrim (which he has given as his birth place).
Unless he has been given a strange transcription. (It would be boring if it went smoothly of course!)
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Alexander Christie married Margaret Ann Dunn on 13/9/1904 at Great James St. He was a Sailor.
As you say - his father was Samuel.
Her father was George Dunn, labourer.
Witnesses Martha McArthar and Lizzie Orr
(From RootsIreland website)
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From 1901 and 1911 census returns it looks like William Tosh was born around the time civil registration of births started so there may not be a birth registration for him. Coleraine is on the Co. Antrim border so he may have been from just outside the town.
Details from his marriage certificate may help to trace his parents- residence? father's occupation? names of witnesses?
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Alexander Christie married Margaret Ann Dunn on 13/9/1904 at Great James St. He was a Sailor.
As you say - his father was Samuel.
Her father was George Dunn, labourer.
Witnesses Martha McArthar and Lizzie Orr
(From RootsIreland website)
Thanks again! That's new information I didn't have before. And thanks for the pointer to the RootsIreland website. I'll trawl through that. You have been really helpful - much appreciated! :)
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From 1901 and 1911 census returns it looks like William Tosh was born around the time civil registration of births started so there may not be a birth registration for him. Coleraine is on the Co. Antrim border so he may have been from just outside the town.
Details from his marriage certificate may help to trace his parents- residence? father's occupation? names of witnesses?
Great suggestion about the marriage certificate - many thanks! :)
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william and mary ann are my grandparents your grandad matt and my father were brothers .ive been going at this for quite a long while and am stuck with the same problem, and i have the marriage certificate and it doesnt reveal much.
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william and mary ann are my grandparents your grandad matt and my father were brothers .ive been going at this for quite a long while and am stuck with the same problem, and i have the marriage certificate and it doesnt reveal much.
Could you please post the details here so that we can try to help?
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Johntosh --- Roots Ireland is a subscription site --- but there are millions of Irish parish registers on there - and as you are at the beginning stages of your search it may be worth you splashing out.
It's useful for obtaining the names of brothers and sisters of ancestors also - by using the baptism section, inputting just the surname AND then the parents names in that county - with dates before and after your own ancestor's baptism. This will give you some idea of when the parents married.
Also you may find the following website useful - relating to Irish naming patterns. Obviously you cannot take this as 'gospel' --- but it is interesting and can be useful.
http://www.cotyroneireland.com/guide/NamePaterns.html
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If johntosh is in Northern Ireland then Coleraine Library and RON, Belfast have microfilm copies of many of the local church records- both are free to use :)
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On the Ireland Civil Registration Index there are 2 marriages for a James Tosh in Coleraine Registration District close to William's apparant birth year.
They may be for the same James Tosh if he remarries.
1857 -- The only 'bride' on the same page is Annie Cabina.
1865 -- unfortunately there are several possible brides -- including (by coincidence) a Margaret Ann Christey.
This doesn't really help until we find William's birth - it's just worth bearing in mind.
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James Tosh may not have married in Coleraine registration district and it's even possible he married before 1845 so there might not be a civil record of his marriage. However, he can't have been married to both of the above since children's births overlap.
The marriage to Annie Cabina was on 17 Mar.1857. The following births in Coleraine district may be their children-
James born 24 Sept.1864 (mother- Caberra)
Alexander born 20 July 1866 (mother Cavena)
Annie born 17 Oct.1868 (mother- Cabena)
The 7 July 1865 marriage was to Hannah Patton. children-
James born 9 Nov.1866 Ballymoney district
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPS4-KHM
James born 31 May 1868 Ballymoney dist. (mother- Patten)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F58C-PZQ
Hugh born 11 Dec.1870 Ballymoney dist.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5K6-XL4
Annie Margaret born 25 Sept.1873 Ballymoney dist.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR73-4FP
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Hi Aghadowey
I agree it wasn't a second marriage - which means there were 2 people named James Tosh around -- (as Annie Cabina was still the mother of children born AFTER the date of the second marriage.)
It is interesting - that doing a 'children' search on Roots Ireland in Derry -- only children born to James and Annie are shown for the period bridging 1865. There was only one in Antrim in 1869 to a different wife (Jane).
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Did find 2 marriages in the Coleraine Chronicle-
30 May 1868: At First Kilraughts Presbyterian Church, on the 26th inst., by the Rev. S. Finlay, Mr. James Tosh, to Jane Wilson, Knockaholett.
8 July 1865: At the Registrar's Office, Coleraine, by license, on the 7th inst., Mr. James Tosh, Prospect, Ballymoney, to Miss Hannah Patton, of Ballystrone, county Derry.
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James Tosh & wife Jane-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Benvarden/Ballybogy/945161/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Benvardin/Ballybogy/128896/
Will Extracts-
Tosh, James of Ballybogy Ballymoney county Antrim retired carpenter died 18 July 1959 Probate Belfast 5 January to Maud Tosh spinster. Effects £431.
Tosh James of Ballybogey county Antrim farmer died 17 November 1925 Probate Belfast 19 June to Samuel Wallace farmer. Effects £11.
Then there's this James Tosh, a carpenter (occupations sometimes run in families)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Letterloan/Balteagh_Lower/1517595
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william and mary ann are my grandparents your grandad matt and my father were brothers .ive been going at this for quite a long while and am stuck with the same problem, and i have the marriage certificate and it doesnt reveal much.
Are you Campbell, by any chance?
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Johntosh and Banntrout ---- you two may want to correspond by private message. Just click on the other's username and you will be given that option. (You will both need to have posted 3 normal messages on this main Forum first though).
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They both have enough posts to use the PM (Personal Message) system ;)
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They both have enough posts to use the PM (Personal Message) system ;)
@Pennines and @aghadowey - I didn't know there was a PM option. I'll use it now, thanks. Also thanks for the mine of information you have provided! I'll let you know of any progress once I have processed it all. I'm also trying to find some information from family, but memories are vague, sadly!
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Thank you Johntosh.
It would be great to get feedback on your progress. Also wonderful in this case that you have made a family connection.
Good Luck!
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James Tosh may not have married in Coleraine registration district and it's even possible he married before 1845 so there might not be a civil record of his marriage. However, he can't have been married to both of the above since children's births overlap.
The marriage to Annie Cabina was on 17 Mar.1857. The following births in Coleraine district may be their children-
James born 24 Sept.1864 (mother- Caberra)
Alexander born 20 July 1866 (mother Cavena)
Annie born 17 Oct.1868 (mother- Cabena)
The 7 July 1865 marriage was to Hannah Patton. children-
James born 9 Nov.1866 Ballymoney district
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPS4-KHM
James born 31 May 1868 Ballymoney dist. (mother- Patten)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F58C-PZQ
Hugh born 11 Dec.1870 Ballymoney dist.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5K6-XL4
Annie Margaret born 25 Sept.1873 Ballymoney dist.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR73-4FP
After doing a lot of work on this i have come to the point where i believe there's a connection with the above family , all the names are the same as my fathers brothers and sisters ,my father's name was hugh ,he had 2 sisters called annie and margaret a brother called william james and another sister called hannah ,it would answer a lot of questions if i could place william tosh in here as the dates are right but unfortunately i cant, does anyone have any ideas as to proving or otherwise as its put a big hole in my tree.
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Some or all of these Tosh families may be related to each other but all the Christian names that you've mentioned are very common so you shouldn't assume any relationships based on those names.
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I admit I have 'lost the plot' on this query somewhat.
However -- of the baptisms you have found on Family Search - have you seen the filmed record of, or the actual parish register for these please?
Family Search is wonderful but only gives basic information. I was just wondering if the father's occupation might have been Army based at some point- OR he was in a job which resulted in him originating from elsewhere and simply settling in or around Coleraine.
The reason I mention this is because, coincidentally, I have been assisting someone with exactly the same problem as you. It transpired that the father was originally a sailor and had actually been born in England - he just settled in Ireland (must have liked the friendly people!)
I still have a feeling that the name 'Tosh' sounds more Scottish than Irish, although I may be wrong of course, and frequently I am.
Sight of the actual marriage record to Hannah Patten would be useful also.
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Tosh is a surname found in Ulster (many Scottish families did settle here).
of the baptisms you have found on Family Search - have you seen the filmed record of, or the actual parish register for these please?
Do you mean extracted Irish births from civil registration (1864-c1881)?
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Another piece of info which helps to tie in is a comment from my cousin at the funeral of his mother my father's sister maude a guy called arthur tosh a vegetable seller from ballymoney introduced himself as maude's cousin ,after investigation ive discovered arthur is a son of hugh tosh and i believe grandson of james and hannah and therefore william would be his uncle and a brother of hugh.
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Another piece of info which helps to tie in is a comment from my cousin at the funeral of his mother my father's sister maude a guy called arthur tosh a vegetable seller from ballymoney introduced himself as maude's cousin ,after investigation ive discovered arthur is a son of hugh tosh and i believe grandson of james and hannah and therefore william would be his uncle and a brother of hugh.
Now that does give a few more leads.... off to check my files...
Added- a possible relative to contact here-
https://www.facebook.com/742387465782340/photos/a.742393122448441.1073741828.742387465782340/878428838844868/?type=1&theater
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Hi
I have been researching my own family (Todd)links in Coleraine and have found a Martha Tosh aged 17 in the 1901 census living as a servant with Daniel Todd and his family at 27 Nursery Road/ avenue.
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Hi, just been reading through this blog and I’m wondering if your Tosh family is the same as the one I’ve started researching into.
My 2nd great grandfather John McMullan married a Sarah Tosh on the 4th April 1912 at castlerock, parish of dunboe. They had 8 children; Minnie, Sadie, ina, Samuel, John, Robert Douglas (who is my great grandfather), Mary Jane and Alexander.
I’m trying to find more about the Tosh family. I know Sarah’s dad was called Robert. Like I said I’ve only started so don’t know much yet.
Is my family link the same tosh link to you?
Regards
Claire
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
My 2nd great grandfather John McMullan married a Sarah Tosh on the 4th April 1912 at castlerock, parish of dunboe. They had 8 children; Minnie, Sadie, ina, Samuel, John, Robert Douglas (who is my great grandfather), Mary Jane and Alexander.
Here are links to the first five children, for others to view-
Alexander 1912, Mary Jane 1913, Robert 1916, John 1918 and Elizabeth 1920 (hers cannot be displayed probably because it was registered in early 1921).
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01q9i/
KG
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Thank you .. :)
Who’s the picture off? I’m nee to this site so not sure how it works etc.
Claire
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Here's a very brief & incomplete start on the Tosh family tree-
Robert Tosh (c1861-aft.1911), mason, m.(1883) Elizabeth/Lizzie Kelly (c1862-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10947/8000899.pdf
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Downhill/Little_Glebe/1517501/
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Downhill/Big_Glebe/588423/ (9 ch./6 liv.)
1. Catherine/Katherine Tosh (6 Aug.1884-24 Feb.1903)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05674/4598363.pdf
2. Mary Tosh (21 Nov.1887-aft.1903)
3. Sarah Tosh (12 Feb.1890) m.(1912) John McMullin
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02446/1909515.pdf
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Articlave/Castlerock_Town/588100/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09912/5602209.pdf
4. Robert Tosh (12 Apr.1892-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02351/1878694.pdf
5. James Tosh (23 July 1894-aft.1901)
6. John Tosh (26 Aug.1896-aft.1911)
7. Joseph/Joe Tosh (5 Apr.1901-11 Feb.1904)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05641/4587360.pdf
8. Kathleen/Katherine Tosh (15 May 1904-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01832/1715471.pdf
Strangely enough we were sitting at the kitchen table earlier this evening and Matt Tosh's name came up :)
Update: a few more details added
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With Robert tosh (child) I believe he married Sarah/Sara mcmullan. (John mcmullans sister who married Sarah tosh)
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Here's Robert's marriage in 1921-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09231/5340478.pdf
You can use the same site to search for other information on the family.
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Oh aghadowey - what an enormous amount of information you have found for McMullanci.
You are a star!