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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Noy1818 on Tuesday 26 January 16 22:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I am looking for the death of James Harvey, and also if possible, where he is buried. I am also looking for his wife's burial. Esther Harvey (Nee James, changed last name to Jamieson) died 5 JUL 1884 • Fitzroy, Victoria, Australia. I would love to visit their grave, especially Esther as she had a most difficult life. Any help would be much appreciated.
Esther James was born in Gloucestershire England in 1828. She worked as a cook and needlewoman for William Osborne. On March 29th 1850, aged 22, she was convicted of stealing, a locket, 3 necklaces, a pocket watch and other articles, property of her master and his wife. Her record shows that she could read and write. She was sentenced to seven years transportation to Van Diemen’s Land and departed a year later on the Aurora II. The ship arrived in August 1851. She was taken to the Brickfields Hiring Depot before being assigned work. While still a convict, in 1852, she married James Harvey (see earlier entry). In 1853 she received her ticket of leave four years early. In 1859 Esther and James Harvey shifted to Victoria. On Esther’s daughter’s marriage certificate her name had been changed to Esther Jamieson obviously trying to remove herself from her convict past. She died on the 5th of July 1884.
James Harvey was born in 1818 in London. He worked as a boot-maker before being convicted of pick pocketing and the theft of a handkerchief valued 5s (30 cents today). He was sentenced to 10 years transportation to Van Diemen’s Land and departed on May 30th 1842 upon the Waterloo. This ship was wrecked with the loss of 189 people including 143 convicts. The ship was lost when a north westerly gale struck it when it was sheltering in Table Bay, Capetown South Africa. James was lucky to survive. He was incarcerated with other surviving convicts in the Capetown Prison before continuing his voyage on the Cape Packet arriving in Hobart in November 1842. In Van Diemen’s Land he was further charge with many minor infringements including stealing from government gardens, staling leather to make shoes and being drunk and disorderly. He married Esther James on April 26th 1852 one month after receiving his ticket of leave. The following year they had their first child of an eventual seven. In 1859 they shifted to Victoria. The last record I have of James is a article in The Age 27th Apr 1866 when he was accused of beating his wife- http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/155045935 It is unknown when he passed away.
Please find the links to the previous topics here.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723582.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723300.msg5673986#msg5673986
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I have some records digitally I can upload if anyone thinks they could help in any way, but most of them you can find links to on the other topic boards listed above.
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I am also looking for his wife's burial. Esther Harvey (Nee James, changed last name to Jamieson) died 5 JUL 1884 • Fitzroy, Victoria, Australia. I would love to visit their grave...
Do you have her death certificate?
The details were given to you in a previous thread & would give the place of burial.
Given that she died in Fitzroy South possibly interred at Melbourne Cemetery.
http://mgc.smct.org.au
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Her funeral notice states burial at Melbourne General Cemetery:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/193393496
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Her funeral notice states burial at Melbourne General Cemetery:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/193393496
I checked the MGC website and couldn't seem to find her but as it says she was buried there I might give them a call or email them today. I haven't brought her death certificate just yet but was looking at it yesterday but as I was out I couldn't buy it. Might even give some insight into James. There its lots of death certificates of James Harveys as it is a common name and we don't have any dates to work off.
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Just gave the Melbourne General Cemetery and Greater Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust a ring. Neither of them have a 'Esther Harvey' in their system. Just brought her death certificate. Please find it attached.
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She is the bottom one. I've had to split the record in 2.
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Do you think this might be your James at Fitzroy? The details are not exactly right, but pretty close.
Go to http://www.rootschat.com/links/0195j/
Put the number 515 in the VPRS box
Put HARVEY in the 'Any words' box and Search
There are four pages so use the arrow to go to page 4 and then look for:
Harvey, James: No. 14202
Click on the link below the name then on the next page you will see a link for the PDF.
On this 1876 record he is a Shoemaker, born England c1812, and the story that goes with this conviction is here http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/58154358
The son who is the 'gentleman' is the right age for James Jnr.
Now go to page 3 and there is another entry:
Harvey, James: No. 14938
On this one for the following year he is a Shoemaker born London c1809 and the notes say he arrived on the Waterloo in 1839 (just a few years out). I can't see an article that goes with this one.
It is a shame they were minor offences because you would have gotten photos if he had been gaoled for longer, usually 6 months or more.
You can search Trove using this term including the inverted commas "Harvey Fitzroy"~20 and it will find all articles where those words are within 20 words of each other. You can change the number to whatever you like to narrow or broaden your results.
March 1878
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59574441
James Harvey is charged, on warrant frorn the Fitzroy Bench, with disobeying a summons for using obscene language on the 11th ultimo. Description :- English, a shoemaker, 67 years of age, 5 feet 10 or 11 inches high, rather stout, dark complexion, hair, beard, whiskers, and moustache; dressed in old grey tweed trousers and vest, old dark coat, and black soft felt hat; very dirty and slovenly looking.
So he hasn't turned up to Court on this occasion but they did find him because this was a week later:
James Harvey, a disreputable dirty looking old man was charged with using obscene language. Con. Walch described the language used as being very obscene. A Mr. John Smith was called to prove the language used by Harvey. He stated for the language Harvey had used to his wife and family he ought to be hanged. Harvey pleaded that the language he had used was caused by his son keeping very late hours. James was fined 40s. or a month's imprisonment, for which he thanked the bench.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59574487
I can't see anything else apart from the incident you mentioned in 1866.
Debra :)
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G'Day Debra, Thank you so much for all the research you have done! I am a amatetur researcher and I lack the knowledge to know where to look so I really appreciate the work you have done :) And also all the little tips along the way really help. As they were living in the Fitzroy area, that would almost be 100% him. When I first discovered and started to research James Harvey, I was proud of him for enduring so much for just stealing a handkerchief, and then all the truth started to leak through. Unfortunately he wasn't the man I imagined him to be. What Esther and her young family had to deal with was amazing and I really look up to her for that.
The other day I headed up to the Melbourne General Cemetery to try and track down Esther Harvey and her burial name is registered under Ethel Harvey. No wonder we couldn't find her! Her grave was in very good condition, even though it lacked the headstone. Am going to order one for her and also plant daffodils in her grave. Still unsure of the location and date of James Harvey's death. We know he was still alive in 1878 from his conviction and I believe he was to when Esther died in 1884. When I went to the Melbourne General Cemetery I got a list of all the men buried under the name James Harvey in their cemetery and the Springvale Botanical cemetery (he most likely won't be there but thought I would grab it anyway). As none of the dates match up with his estimated birthday (1812-1820) looks like it none of them are him ???
Melbourne General Cemetery
Harvey, James- Age 86- service 07/04/1920
Harvey, James- service 28/11/1862
Harvey James- Age 81- 28/05/1903 ??
Harvey James- Age 85- Service 26/01/1870
Springvale
Harvey James- service 19/04/1907
Harvey James- service 22/12/1905
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Melbourne General Cemetery
Harvey, James- Age 86- service 07/04/1920
Harvey, James- service 28/11/1862
Harvey James- Age 81- 28/05/1903 ??
Harvey James- Age 85- Service 26/01/1870
This may be the registration for this death and gives him another 5 years:
Death
#6073
1903
HARVEY, Jas
Father: Jno HARVEY
Mother: Mary (Maiden surname unknown)
Died: Hoth W B A
Age 86
I think this should be 'M B A' which would be the Melbourne Benevolent Asylum at Hotham.
Debra :)
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Melbourne General Cemetery
Harvey, James- Age 86- service 07/04/1920
Harvey, James- service 28/11/1862
Harvey James- Age 81- 28/05/1903 ??
Harvey James- Age 85- Service 26/01/1870
This may be the registration for this death and gives him another 5 years:
Death
#6073
1903
HARVEY, Jas
Father: Jno HARVEY
Mother: Mary (Maiden surname unknown)
Died: Hoth W B A
Age 86
I think this should be 'M B A' which would be the Melbourne Benevolent Asylum at Hotham.
Debra :)
Thanks for that Debra! :) I'll check it out and see if we can link that particular death to him!
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Finally back at this forum posts again! It has been a while. I only just got round to getting the death certificate-
#6073
1903
HARVEY, Jas
Father: Jno HARVEY
Mother: Mary (Maiden surname unknown)
Died: Hoth W B A
Age 86
Debra you found the correct man! Below is the death certificate (sorry I've had to split it in 2, he is the 2nd of the 2). Would anyone be able to decipher what his mother's occupation is? It says he was 'not married' but as his wife died abt 30 years before and he basically lost his marbles I'm not surprised it says that! He may even have had dementia but as it wasn't a fully understood medical condition, it could have just been recorded as senile debility like what it states.
I haven't been able to find the Harvey family in the census before and after Esther's death in 1884. Not sure if someone would be able to point me in the right direction. Would love to know how the family coped and how James ended up in the asylum.
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Just thought I would upload a picture of the headstone that myself and the family DIYed for Esther Harvey. We went up to the cemetery today and were very pleased with how it turned out. We also planted daffodils so in the coming months it will bloom. Please note I have blanked out a name in the headstone just because of online security. We managed to track down James' plot and unfortunately he has neither a stone nor a border to outline his grave. He is sharing the single plot grave with another man by the name of John Lloyd. Not sure who he is at the current moment.
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What a beautiful tribute you have made for Esther.
On the death certificate in the column about his parents the words under "Mary HARVEY" are "Not known" meaning that her maiden surname isn't known. Interesting that the informant for this certificate knew enough about him to know his parents' names and the occupation of his father but not know that he had been married and had children. Perhaps there were papers with him from his later convictions. ???
Judith
PS. Thanks Debra for the TROVE search tip which is new to me and VERY helpful.
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Noy1818 - James & Esther Harvey are my 2G Grandparents
3rd child - Fanny Victoria Harvey married William C Selby my
1st G Grandparents.
Looking, 💜 to make a connection, sharing information.
Noy1818 could you provide location of Esther's grave, for when we fly into Melbourne to do a quick visit.
Made contact with Fanny nephew in Sydney last year, through connection on Genealogysa facebook page.
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Noy1818 - Received your message 10 May - go to send message - have a error coming up - unable to reply to you
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/rendition/nla.news-article197208620
Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954), Thursday 28 May 1903, page 10
FUNERAL NOTICES
HARVEY. -The Friends of the late JAMES HARVEY are most respectfully invited to follow his remains to the place of interment, to the Melbourne General Cemetery. The funeral will leave from the residence of Mr. James Ogden, 50 Perry Street, Collingwood, THIS DAY (Thursday), the 28th, at 3 o'clock. W. FERGUSON, Undertaker, Vere and Campbell Street, Collingwood; Read-sheet end St. George's road, North Fitzroy. Telephone 1488
INDEPENDENT ORDER of GOOD TEMPLARS, WORKING BAND LODGE, No. 8 Colling-wood. - The Member of the above Lodge and the Order generally are respectfully requested to follow the remains of our respected Brother, JAMES HARVEY, to the place of interment, the Melbourne General Cemetery. The funeral will leave the residence of his friend, Bro. J. Ogden, No. 50 Perry street, Collingwood, THIS DAY (Thursday), at 3'' o'clock p.m. Regalia. K. BERGLUND, Chief Templaz. H. FEAR, Secretary.