RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: gwyninoz on Wednesday 27 January 16 05:24 GMT (UK)
-
Hi All
Does anyone on here live near Marshfield? Would anyone be willing to wander around the burial ground (corner of Marshfield Road and the A48 Newport Road)?
I'm asking because I have struck not just a brick wall, I think its a tank trap. I'm trying to find the family of my GG Grandfather, John Thomas b.1840. He is in the 1841 census with his father, John, and his mother Elizabeth. In this census he is 5 months old, fairly specific eh?. In the 1851 census he is still in Marshfield (aged 10) but his father is now a widower, there is no-one else in the household.
SO - he should have been registered in the birth index for December 1840 or January 1841 yes? (I've tried November to Feb too) There are only 2 for Newport in the free BMD for that period and neither of them are him. There are several marriages for John Thomas and "Elizabeth" during 1840 but I can't order them all.
I'm thinking that as Elizabeth died between the 41 and 51 censuses maybe she is buried in the graveyard there. John Snr stays in the Marshfield area all his life, last heard of at Black Birds Nest Farm (now a housing estate I'm told) Rogerstone in the 1871 census.
I'd be very grateful for any help anyone could give.
Thank you ;D
-
The 1841 census was taken on the night of 6th June 1841.
That puts his birth in January 1841 or December 1840.
Marshfield was a parish within the Newport (Monmouthshire) Registration District,
And there was only 1 birth registration for John Thomas in that time!
March qtr 1841
Newport District vol 26, page 111
Thomas, John
-
Yes no problem happy to help - I'll pm you
Richview
-
Thank you KGarrad. That was my conclusion too so I ordered that registration certificate and it isn't our John. The parents names are wrong among other things. :(
-
Please bear in mind that the 1841 census does not show relationships (to head of household).
So the people John is living with may not be his parents?
-
There is no-one else listed in the household. The census taker has delineated between families. Next door is a Lewis family which is one of the possible surnames for John's wife but you couldn't count on that either.
He goes through all the censuses with no family except his son.
-
There is a Marriage in Marshfield Parish Church that may be of interest to you.
John Thomas, OTP, bachelor and Elizabeth Jones, OTP, spinster, were married at this Church by Banns
on the 27th May 1837. Both signed their names. In the presence of Thomas Jones and Cecilia Jones.
Civil registration started July 1837 so you will not find this entry in the Registrar General Records.
As yet have not found a Baptism for John Jnr. in Marshfield
-
Wow. Thank you for that. I have thought before that John Thomas Snr's father may not have had Thomas as his surname. So the Thomas Jones who is witness to this marriage could possibly have been my John's father. That would follow the historical pattern of the Welsh patronymic style.
I will search the census records and see if I can find either Thomas or Cecelia Jones.
-
May have been John's father in law, Elizabeth's family.
-
True. More research for me.
-
Having just read your query I was intersted to see that your gg grandfather was living with Ebenezer Williams at Black Birds Nest.
Ebenezer was the brother of my gg grandfather David Williams of Gout farm, Peterstone Wentlooge. Their parents were William and Jane Williams of Gout farm.
Ebenezer was a Baptist Minister and farmer. I don't know of any link with the Thomas family. Will have to have a look into that.Many of the Williams family are buried in Castleton.
Best wishes,
Christine davies.
-
Thank you for your message Christine,
I think my John Thomas was working for Ebenezer in a very humble capacity but its lovely to hear of the connection. At the very beginning of this quest some years ago I was contacted by a lady whose husband, a doctor, had his general practice on what was Black Birds Nest. Its a very small world.
According to the census records JT was born at Peterstone and, since he put the same place in each one, there is no reason to doubt that. In 1861 he was working at the Coach & Horses, Marshfield which is still there and I have a photo of it. Maybe he didn't share the Baptist views of the Williams family?
JT never remarried after Elizabeth died and appears to have brought John Jnr up himself as no other family member is mentioned in any census. I can't even tell when either of them died as there are just too many John and Elizabeth Thomas' in the GRO death records to order them all.
Another corespondent said that although she had looked at what graves there are in the area John didn't seem to be there. I doubt if he would have had a headstone anyway.
GerryP found a marriage (1837) that could be relevant if Elizabeth was Elizabeth Jones. There is a Cecelia Jones (aged 60) at Michaelstone in the 1841 census who may have been the witness and maybe Elizabeth's mum. I can't yet find an Elizabeth born to (Thomas and) Cecelia (millions of spelling variations) but I'll keep looking.
Cheers, Gwyn
-
Gwyn,
Also in the 1841 census for Marshfield is this family:-
Thomas Jones 55 shopkeeper
Mary Jones 55
Mary 20
William 20
Ann 15
Thomas 15
Cecilia 15
This Thomas and Cecelia could be Elizabeth's brother and sister. Witnesses maybe?
-
Thanks Gerry. Yes, that is a possibility, there is another Cecelia Jones in the same census at Michaelstone too.
Unless the full parish record for the marriage (not just the BT) is lurking somewhere and has an address for John or parents for either I can't prove any of it. Very frustrating.