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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Paul Deggan on Wednesday 03 February 16 19:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Deggan family history
Post by: Paul Deggan on Wednesday 03 February 16 19:44 GMT (UK)
I am looking for the parents of Edward Deggan born 1829, Clifton, Bristol, and also the parents of Matilda Deggan, nee Ayres, his wife, born 1835, Frome, Somerset.
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: spendlove on Wednesday 03 February 16 20:11 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Assume in 1841 Census your Edward Deggan is show as a servant aged 12, 1851 Census  he is
in London - Police Constable.

If so this could be the bpt Bristol, Gloucestershire:-

Edward Dagan Born  19th September 1828  Bpt 12th October 1828 son of John & Eliza Dagan.

The above is from www.familysearch.org, however it is only a transcript so you would need to
look at the original parish register.

Spendlove
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Paul Deggan on Wednesday 03 February 16 21:59 GMT (UK)
Hi, thanks for information on Edward Dagan. However, in spite of police connection (Deggan was superintendent of police in Axbridge District in the fifties) this has to be the wrong man. Edward Deggan lived in Frome, Somerset, where he died in 1899. He was also, I believe, educated at Oxford, in those days a privilege for the comfortably off, so not likely to have been a servant at the time of the  '51 census.
I must keep looking!
Paul
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 03 February 16 22:34 GMT (UK)
where did you find the information that Edward had attended Oxford???

1851 he was just a plain police constable in London

He married 1856
Marriage 2 Sept 1856 St Leonards St Mary Bromley
Edward Deggan full age Bachelor occ Government Officer address Bromley father John Deggan occ Gentleman
Penelope Mary Abraham full age Spinster address Bromley father William Abraham deceased
witnesses Charles mears & Ann Nichol?
all signed

Edward and Penelope had moved to Frome by 1861
Penelope died 1862 death reg Sept qtr 1862 Frome

Edward then married Matilda Ayres in 1863

If you could purchase the 2nd marriage cert it would tell if Edward was a widower when he married Matilda and who hs father was

It very much looks like the strongest possibility is John & Eliza

Suz


Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 03 February 16 22:35 GMT (UK)
He was also, I believe, educated at Oxford, in those days a privilege for the comfortably off, so not likely to have been a servant at the time of the  '51 census.
I must keep looking!
Paul

Edward was a police constable in 1851??
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Christine53 on Wednesday 03 February 16 22:56 GMT (UK)
From the Frome Times 6 Aug 1862 :

Deaths :

July 30th ,Penelope Mary beloved wife of Mr Edward Duggan , superintendant of police  Frome Division , aged 30
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: spendlove on Wednesday 03 February 16 22:59 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Have just searched All Oxford University Alumni, 1500-1886, on Ancestry.

There is no Deggan recorded using any spelling.

Think you should check police records to discover his progress from constable to Super.

Spendlove

Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 03 February 16 23:03 GMT (UK)
1861
Christchurch St Frome
Edward Deggan Head M 32 superintendant of police Bristol Glos
Penelope M wife 30 Bristol
Honora E (misentered for Florence) daughter 3 Axbridge somerset
Sarah Hyatt servant 18 Wilts
RG9 1654 78 23

birth reg Florence Emily Deggan Sept qtr 1857 Axbridge

1871
Christchurch St Frome
Edward Deggan head M 43 clifton
Matilda wife 38 Frome
Percy E son 6 Frome
Florence E daughter 13 Axbridge
Matilda M daughter 1 Frome (listed as Hilda in 1881)

so the eldest daughter was mother Penelope

1881 census Edward & Matilda have Mary (sister in law )with them
This is matilda's sister
1861 Mary Ayres is a school teacher and her sister Matilda is living with her as School mistress' assistant

Matilda's baptism is on familysearch and she is in earlier census

Suz
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Christine53 on Wednesday 03 February 16 23:08 GMT (UK)
Somerset County Constabulary was established in September 1856 and a notice in the newspapers in December 1857 marks the appointment of several Superintendents , including Edward Deggan.
It appears to have been a rapid promotion.
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Christine53 on Wednesday 03 February 16 23:40 GMT (UK)
Matilda Ayres 5 Mar 1833 / 26 Mar 1833 Zion Independent Frome , Richard & Matilda Ann Ayres
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPJQ-BG6

1851 census :
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKV8-5MTB

Matilda with her mother , Matilda A Ayres , a proprietor of houses , who is a widow.

Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Christine53 on Wednesday 03 February 16 23:50 GMT (UK)
1841 census

transcribed as AYON on "A"

Matilda Ann Ayon 35
Richard Ayon 12
Mary Ayon 11
John Ayon 10
Matilda Ayon  9

HO107 942 10 21 3
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Paul Deggan on Thursday 04 February 16 00:04 GMT (UK)
all my previous information is undergoing revision! Now I would like to make the connection between Matilda, nee Ayres, wife of Edward Deggan and James Ayres of Frome who died in 1817. Still looking for parents and background of Edward.

Paul
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: suzard on Thursday 04 February 16 00:14 GMT (UK)
It looks like Edward's father is John - stated on first marriage cert as John occ Gentleman.

a very strong possibility is the baptism at St Andrews Clifton -giving parents as John & Eliza

if you had the second marriage details it would be interesting to see father's occ on that

Suz
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Christine53 on Thursday 04 February 16 00:26 GMT (UK)
The will of James Ayres of Frome is available to download from TNA :

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D555177
( or from Ancestry if you are a subscriber )

I suggest you study it for clues to family relationships whilst at the same time tracing backwards from Matilda Ayres father , Richard.
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 04 February 16 00:56 GMT (UK)
John and Eliza Dagan do not appear to have had any other children besides Edward in 1828 and I seriously think you need to check the original baptism to see what occupation is given for John before you can dismiss it.

It would seem to me that either 'Deggan' may not be the original spelling of the surname or, if it is, that father John was of Irish extraction (which doesn't preclude him being a 'Gentleman').

As Clifton, Bristol baptisms are online and the only likely entry is for said 'Edward Dagan', in '1828', with father a 'John' and mother Eliza, all 3 (with that spelling) never to be seen again in available online records this seems an extremely strong contender for your Edward.   This is why you need to establish the given occupation for John on the baptism record before rejecting it.

With a dearth of 'Deggan's in UK civil registration records (and most of these descend from your Edward) it's clearly due to either a spelling difference or back to Ireland perhaps.   John could have been at Bristol (a port) because of business of some kind where Edward was born and they later returned to Ireland.

There is no Edward Deggan baptism anywhere in England, let alone Bristol, and the only likely entry is indeed in Bristol and just happens to be right forename, right date, right father with a soundalike surname??? All 3 than vanishing??

Don't see how you reject without further investigation.

Annette
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Paul Deggan on Thursday 04 February 16 02:05 GMT (UK)
Suggestion that Edward Deggan was born Edward Dagan, son of John and Eliza makes a lot of sense, as I was told many years ago by an aunt that he was of Irish origin and changed his name in order to be accepted into an English (or could it be Jewish) family. After all, Penelope Abraham, his first wife, would appear to be Jewish. Progress is being made at all hours of the day and night! My thanks.

Paul
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: rachelralph on Thursday 04 February 16 08:23 GMT (UK)
having researched my own irish Denigan. be prepared to consider variants of Dongan, Dagan, Degin, and even names such as Donegan, Hagen, Dening, Denning. Dugan.
good luck
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Christine53 on Thursday 04 February 16 08:43 GMT (UK)
This death for an Elizabeth Deggan may be relevant:

Elizabeth Deggan b 1792 J-M 1867 Clifton, Gloucestershire 6a 110

Possible 1861 census for Elizabeth Deggan in Clifton :

Ellizabeth Dogan  wife 1791 Ireland
John Dogan head 1797 Ireland retired servant

RG 9; Piece: 1725; Folio: 82; Page: 38

I know this doesn't fit with Edward Deggan's father being a Gentleman , but that could be an invention to suit the circumstances.

Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: suzard on Thursday 04 February 16 13:21 GMT (UK)
. After all, Penelope Abraham, his first wife, would appear to be Jewish.
Paul

Where did the information that Penelope may be Jewish come from?? She married in CofE???

Suz
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: Paul Deggan on Thursday 04 February 16 18:20 GMT (UK)
That Edward was married in CofE had not occurred to me, but the name Abraham suggests Jewish background?
As for his Oxford(?) education, as a young man, I remember seeing but not reading a number of history essays written by Edward. Was the search for Oxford Alumni done with the spelling DAGAN, which now appears to have been his name at birth?
I have the original will of James Ayres of Frome who died childless in 1817. Unfortunately it is in France and I will not be seeing it for a few months. There is also the problem that some of the heirs' names fall on the creases in the parchment and are difficult to read. It is interesting to read the short and hilariously unsympathetic obituary in The Gentleman's Magazine; " ..he has left property to the amount of 70,000 pounds which he acquired by extreme parsimony and unceasing exertions to increase his wealth." I suspect he was the great uncle of Richard Ayres, the father of Matilda, Edward's second wife, and certainly my great grandmother. I wonder if she got any of this fortune which amounted to nearly 100,000 pounds. (about 3,000,000 in today's currency) This is fun! Thanks again for all your interest and help.

Paul
.
Title: Re: Deggan family history
Post by: spendlove on Thursday 04 February 16 19:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

As I said in my post "There is no Deggan recorded using any spelling".  How did Edward, a servant,
at the age of 12 manage to go to Oxford?  Even if he had gone to Oxford you would not expect him
to take up a profession in the Police Force.

One of my own ancestors became a Chief Superintendent, he was the son of a farmer of 15 acres,
his only education was being able to read and write.

The name Abraham became common in England after the Protestant Reformation.

Because of your postings on Ancestry Family Tree, I assume you have access to the All Oxford
Alumni on Ancestry, but if not you may be able to get free access at your local library.

Spendlove