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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: juliaanna1701 on Sunday 07 February 16 05:44 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I am struggling to find the death of my ancestor Henry Davy who came with his wife MARY ANN SMITH + family in 1848 aboard the 'Sibella' from Cornwall. Mary Ann remarried in 1853, and Henry + Mary Ann had five daughters the last one Martha Davey in 1851 in Adelaide. This leaves his death to around that time. Can anyone help me at all? I am very very keen to find the names of his parents in particular as there is a lot of confusion around his place of birth and parentage - three possible sets of parents so I would dearly love to narrow it down! I know from his immigration record that he would have been born circa 1810. Thanks in advance Anna
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Hi there,
There's a birth in South Australia in 1853 for Martha DAVEY, but the index I am looking at has her parents as Thomas DAVEY and Martha APPLEDOOR.
https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html
18 March 1853
The Murray/Burra District.
#6/180
FindMyPast has Genealogy SA transcriptions.
Cheers, JM
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Similar post- same person (Henry Davey) different request- on the Cornwall Lookup board
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h0n/
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Thanks - that was my post as well :) I can find one of his other daughter CHRISTIANA DAVEY born 1848 in Adelaide, so i'm not sure why martha is not coming up either. There was one more daughter, Mary Ann who was born in 1850 in Adelaide. Henry Davey is proving very elusive!
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Do you know who Mary Ann married?
BTW, Christiana was reg in Adelaide but born on the ship.
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What document gives you Martha as Henry's daughter?
Cheers, JM
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Henry Davey possible arrival 1848
Note 1 daughter born at sea http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article48727628
Refer to SpikeHs post
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Do you know who Mary Ann married?
BTW, Christiana was reg in Adelaide but born on the ship.
And may I add to the question ..... From Mary Ann's 1853 marriage, what information is recorded about her status .... does it actually give her status as Widow. Which colony is that 1853 marriage registered in?
Cheers, JM
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Yes - Christiana was born on the 'Sibella' coming to australia, along with her parents HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH - plus her two older sisters Emma Mary and Elizabeth. Two further daughters are listed (Mary Ann + Martha) from other family researchers. Elizabeth Davey married in 1853 in Victoria, which makes me think the family moved there before heading to NZ where the mother MARY ANN SMITH remarried.
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Do you know who Mary Ann married?
BTW, Christiana was reg in Adelaide but born on the ship.
And may I add to the question ..... From Mary Ann's 1853 marriage, what information is recorded about her status .... does it actually give her status as Widow. Which colony is that 1853 marriage registered in?
Cheers, JM
I know that MARY ANN went on to Marry WILLIAM HENRY LUKE on 01 OCT 1853 in Castlemain, Victoria. I do not have the certificate so cannot verify that she is a widow, but marrying again so soon after giving birth makes me think that Henry died.
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So, from the NZ marriage, does it record Mary Ann DAVEY as a widow?
...... NZ where the mother MARY ANN SMITH remarried.
...... MARY ANN went on to Marry WILLIAM HENRY LUKE on 01 OCT 1853 in Castlemain, Victoria. I do not have the certificate so cannot verify that she is a widow, but marrying again so soon after giving birth makes me think that Henry died.
Something is not making good sense to me, sorry
Cheers JM
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Sorry that is my fault im trying to respond to two boards at once - MARY ANN SMITH remarried in 1853 in Castlemaine, Victoria to WILLIAM HENRY LUKE - they then immigrated to NZ with her daughters
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deleted
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Sorry that is my fault im trying to respond to two boards at once - MARY ANN SMITH remarried in 1853 in Castlemaine, Victoria to WILLIAM HENRY LUKE - they then immigrated to NZ with her daughters
Mary Anne Davey no status
I see the marriage on my subs site...but what makes you think it is the widow/ex of Henry?
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Perhaps you should consider obtaining a copy of the Vic BDM registration for that marriage. You can download them immediately, and they are usually quite informative.
The index is free to search. Here is the link. Noting Mary Anne (with the 'e') is as per the index at that link.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/search+your+family+history/
Here is the link for the NSW BDM free to search http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
There were huge increases in the populations of the colonies of Victoria and of New South Wales due to the gold rushes.
Cheers, JM
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http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1848Sibella%20PassengerList.gif
Just bear in mind that civil registration did not commence in the Colony of Victoria until Jul 1853 and if Henry died in Victoria before then and possibly at Castlemaine during the early years of the gold rush, there will be no record unless there was a parish record of his burial and the parish records handed to the Victorian Registry. Many churches did not comply with the legislation which required them to hand over parish registers.
It is possible that this record also has limited information....and has anyone researching the family purchased the marriage certificate.
DAVEY Mary Anne
LUKE William Henry
1853 Reg#756
Cando
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There is a death of a William Henry Luke in 1872
Event Death
Event registration number 8440
Registration year 1872
LUKE
William Henry
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There was a William Henry LUKE in South Australia in 1849.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/71624166
Sue
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There is a death of a William Henry Luke in 1872
Event Death
Event registration number 8440
Registration year 1872
LUKE
William Henry
I think he may have been born in 1869 to different parents
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:) Thanks Spike.
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A LUKE William H arrived in SA 24 Sep 1847 aboard RAJAH from London via Plymouth 28 May 1847.
The link to the manifest at SLSA from Bound for South Australia [Di Cummins] website no longer works and I don't have the CD :(
Cando
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The death of the man of that name in NZ describes him as a native of Cornwall aged 58
1888
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TT18880630.2.5&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2william+henry+luke--
This death for a Mary Ann , wife of William Henry LUKE requests Victorian papers to copy.
1878
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TT18780720.2.4&srpos=2&e=-------10--1----2%22william+henry+luke%22--
Sue
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Henry + Mary Ann had five daughters the last one Martha Davey in 1851 in Adelaide
You have no proof of this event. No registration however do you have an actual date in 1851?
Adding to my comment about civil registrations.....many births were not registered in SA especially in rural areas. I note that Mary Ann SMITH's birth registration on 27 Sep 1850 was at Reedy Creek which is in the South East of SA. Perhaps the family was en route to Victoria.
I have just found an online tree which has the date of marriage in Victoria and no parents listed for either of the bride or groom. Of course the date may have copied from another tree.
juliaanna do you have your tree online?
Cando
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Adding to my comment about civil registrations.....many births were not registered in SA especially in rural areas. I note that Mary Ann SMITH's birth registration on 27 Sep 1850 was at Reedy Creek which is in the South East of SA. Perhaps the family was en route to Victoria.
Cando
Also Reedy Creek mine at Tungkillo from the 1840s so if Henry was a miner then births there were recorded in the Adelaide registration district. Mary Ann's reg. in 1850 was Ade / 3/110
From 1860 onwards Reedy Creek was in Talunga or Nairne districts.
Essie
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Obit for Christina Mary BLOXHAM
http://tinyurl.com/jd74adj
She married Henry BLOXHAM in Vic in 1864 (#2676) so the bit about the daughters going to NZ with their mother seems not completely correct, although the trees suggest they all died there. And it seems odd to me that none of Mary Ann's children were mentioned in her death notice.
Christina had 18 children (all but one survived)!!
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Adding to my comment about civil registrations.....many births were not registered in SA especially in rural areas. I note that Mary Ann SMITH's birth registration on 27 Sep 1850 was at Reedy Creek which is in the South East of SA. Perhaps the family was en route to Victoria.
Cando
Also Reedy Creek mine at Tungkillo from the 1840s so if Henry was a miner then births there were recorded in the Adelaide registration district. Mary Ann's reg. in 1850 was Ade / 3/110
From 1860 onwards Reedy Creek was in Talunga or Nairne districts.
Essie
To confuse things further..... :)
In July 1842 the colony was effectively divided into two District Registries based on Port Lincoln and Adelaide headed by District Registrars answerable to the Principal Registrar in Adelaide.
A good summary of districts and periods and it would appear that the subdivisions didn't commence until 1855/56 onwards. In 1850 and 1852 Adelaide registration district covered all districts north, south and east of Adelaide.
http://www.jaunay.com/districts.html
Cando
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Thanks everyone,
Yes I do have my tree online - ancestry.com.au 'best edwards-meagher family tree' the information I have about HENRY DAVY + MARY ANN SMITH and their total number of daughters is from family word of mouth and other trees on ancestry, im afraid - which is why I was not satisfied to just go along with the information provided as a lot of it did not add up or make sense. My ancestor is his daughter, Elizabeth, who married Richard Henry Edwards in 1853 in Victoria (supposedly Reedy Creek, but that again could be different but there is a marriage listed on VICBDM that is for them in 1853) I do not really need the information about MARY ANN SMITH and her second marriage details, which is why I have not obtained her death certificate as I know her death date etc I am just after Henry's. As i am a university student, money is tight which is why I have relied on microfilm data from the QLD state archives and of course ancestry and the world wide web to confirm some info (such as the cornwall opc, which is brilliant) but I will have to purchase some certificates now it seems. I know from records of the 'sibella' henry's approx age (along with mary ann) and their two daughters (with Christiana born on board en route to australia) so know that HENRY + MARY ANN married in Torpoint, cornwall as the two daughters' are registered there before they set sale in 1848. As I am in QLD I am not familiar at all with south australia nor victoria and which towns are close to each other etc, and having a reedy creek in both states confused me even more! There has been a book I have been told about called 'from Brackley to Blue Spur' all about MARY ANN SMITH and her journey to NZ along with descendents from the CHRISTIANA DAVEY line (Bloxham) which gives a lot of certified dates on her life, but still leaves poor HENRY with a 1852? death. I have a lot of info on Elizabeth Davey + Richard Henry Edwards (and their football team of children!) its just getting further back is the struggle, esp because there are at least four possible parents of HENRY DAVEY in cornwall circa 1810 so I would love to be able to try and narrow it down, and without a death cert, that is not easy. Does that make sense?
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Okay I've just purchased the marriage cert for ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS - thoughts?
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And this is what I have from another researcher which I dont fully agree with -
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Okay I've just purchased the marriage cert for ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS - thoughts?
My thought initially was that she would have been too young to be married in 1853, but the certificate confirms that she was 16.
Now, the certificate says born in Plymouth?? Where did that come from? Born Plymouth, baptised Torpoint, Cornwall?
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My thought initially was that she would have been too young to be married in 1853, but the certificate confirms that she was 16.
Now, the certificate says born in Plymouth?? Where did that come from? Born Plymouth, baptised Torpoint, Cornwall?
16 from 1853 gives 1837
As far as I was aware the shipping record quoted above was 1848 :)
Post 8 Yes - Christiana was born on the 'Sibella' coming to australia, along with her parents HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH - plus her two older sisters Emma Mary and Elizabeth.
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16 from 1853 gives 1837
As far as I was aware the shipping record quoted above was 1848 :)
Post 8 Yes - Christiana was born on the 'Sibella' coming to australia, along with her parents HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH - plus her two older sisters Emma Mary and Elizabeth.
I have seen the baptism records for both Emma and Elizabeth on OPC so I was aware that Elizabeth was 16 in 1853. Because 16 was a bit youngish to get married it was possible that this was not the correct marriage. The marriage certificate removes that doubt, which was the point I was trying to make.
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I responded to this section
Now, the certificate says born in Plymouth?? Where did that come from? Born Plymouth, baptised Torpoint, Cornwall?
To me that indicated confusion over where she was born.
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Torpoint is a parish in cornwall that is across the bay from Plymouth - approx 3 miles so many bdm were registered in Plymouth instead. Torpoint is a very small parish at that time, so it was common and the family departed for australia from plymouth as well - I guess Elizabeth didn't really care much for particulars in birth place! A lot of people these days still think that Plymouth is in cornwall as it marks the border with cornwall and as it is the cultural centre for both Devon + Cornwall - a lot of confusion but it is technically in Devon.
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Firstly I made a typo with the commencement date of civil reg in Vic...apologies. I have corrected it. It was 1 Jul 1853 not 1856 :-[ :-[
The marriage registration has been completely filled out by minister including the signatures of the bride and groom. In Victoria it is usual for the signatures of the bride and groom to be on the marriage registration. And no consent noted on the registration for a minor to marry. Also an opportunity for mistranscriptions to occur.
Even though many of the registrations in the period following the commencement of civil registration had limited information I would have purchased the LUKE/DAVEY marriage cert in the hope that more information was available.
Many married at 16 and earlier. Perhaps Mary Ann wasn't present at her dau's marriage hence the misinformation.
Cando
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I also note that the bride and groom's mothers' maiden names are not completed.
Cando
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It was lawful for girls to marry from age 12 and boys from age 14. If either had not yet reached majority then that person was not yet old enough to give consent to their own marriage, and therefore needed to obtain consent from the adult responsible for that minor person.
Yes, re which mc to download from Vic BDM .... I did not consider the daughter's marriage. I was referring to Mary Ann/e's marriage. I apologise if you were confused by my post.
Cheers, JM
Sorry that is my fault im trying to respond to two boards at once - MARY ANN SMITH remarried in 1853 in Castlemaine, Victoria to WILLIAM HENRY LUKE - they then immigrated to NZ with her daughters
Mary Anne Davey no status
I see the marriage on my subs site...but what makes you think it is the widow/ex of Henry?
Perhaps you should consider obtaining a copy of the Vic BDM registration for that marriage. You can download them immediately, and they are usually quite informative.
The index is free to search. Here is the link. Noting Mary Anne (with the 'e') is as per the index at that link.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/search+your+family+history/
Here is the link for the NSW BDM free to search http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
There were huge increases in the populations of the colonies of Victoria and of New South Wales due to the gold rushes.
Cheers, JM
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Sorry that is my fault im trying to respond to two boards at once - MARY ANN SMITH remarried in 1853 in Castlemaine, Victoria to WILLIAM HENRY LUKE - they then immigrated to NZ with her daughters
Mary Anne Davey no status
I see the marriage on my subs site...but what makes you think it is the widow/ex of Henry?
David unless you are viewing a copy of the marriage certificate from the Victorian Register, I very much doubt Mary Anne's marriage status at the time of her marriage to Wm H LUKE would be detailed. The Victorian Marriage Index does not detail the bride and groom's marital status. One needs to view the certificate.
I wonder how many living and deceased children of Mary Anne's previous marriage, if any, are detailed on that 1853 marriage certificate? Three, four or five? It is possible that Henry did not father the SA births. Who registered the 1850 birth?
Cando
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I kid you not ..... There is a tree owner who has uploaded their tree to the web, and they have Mary DAVEY marrying Mary DAVEY in Victoria, in 1853 ..... and the married couple go on to have children .... I kid you not. Both Mary Davey and her husband, Mary Davey, died on the same day. ::)
Rarely am I lost for words .... I am at present lost for words.....
Cheers, JM
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And another has her death in NZ in 1878 then she miraculously appears on the English 1881 census
1881 • Lambeth, London, England
Relation to Head of House: Lodger; Marital Status: Windower
I fail to understand how people can research accurately without purchasing a certificate or two along the way or in the case of the tree I accessed online, use a bit of common sense.
It's not a matter of 'knowing' that someone was born, married and died......certificates contain information that is not available elsewhere eg how many living and deceased chn were on Mary Anne's 1853 marriage cert; causes of death and places of burial etc etc.
Cando
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David unless you are viewing a copy of the marriage certificate from the Victorian Register, I very much doubt Mary Anne's marriage status at the time of her marriage to Wm H LUKE would be detailed. The Victorian Marriage Index does not detail the bride and groom's marital status. One needs to view the certificate.
Cando
:) Thank you. I wasn't sure
I was forecasting a further question - as there was on another topic by the same poster- so I added the comment before it got asked :)
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From our fantastic Vic Resources Board :
What to expect on Vic BDM certs ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Quoting from that thread in case anyone is using a device that cannot give immediate access, (highlights in red by JM)
Marriages
Date and place of marriage;
name and surnames;
conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
children by each former marriage;
birthplace;
occupation;
age;
residence (present and usual);
parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of father;
signatures of the parties and witnesses;
signature of Minister. Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of the parties is also shown.
This thread is about searching for Henry's death .... if we know the date of his death we have some sensible starting place....
Fingers crossed this 1853 marriage is post 1 July 1853 :)
Cheers, JM
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Thanks everyone - im glad I am not the only one who saw major flaws and gaps in other ancestry trees on the family and decided to investigate further! I like the one where it states that HENRY DAVEY immigrates to VIC in 1848 (which is correct) but then goes on to list him when he 'appears' in following census for cornwall - sigh. It isn't hard to see why there are so many people claiming royal ancestry - one slip and they get all excited when they see another researcher's mistake and don't bother checking each individual person for accuracy - I've seen it more than once and I don't by any means claim to be a prof genealogist, but apparently I have a good degree of common sense :)
I unfortunately don't have the funds to spend buying cert for MARY ANN SMITH + HENRY LUKE as I am a struggling uni student, but I did purchase the marriage of ELIZABETH DAVEY in the hopes that (going off the VIC BDM website) the marriage cert would provide more info on the parents than it did. My mistake, but another cert to add to the tree as proof.
And please don't think that the tree I have posted is my own work, it is not it was sent to me by another researcher and I have not verified all entries and there are a few things I already disagree with - the first one being the presented baptism record for HENRY DAVEY as for 1818 in Illogan - I have found an alternate birth for him in Gwennup in 1809 to JOHN + PRISCILLA DAVEY which fits in much better with the ship records on the sibella, which do list him as having a birth circa 1810 in 1848. That is why I am concerned with using the 1818 baptism as it is not the only option for his birth and parentage, and hence my challenge locating his death in the hopes it may help me further.
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The thing is, you see, that the Vic BDM marriage cert for Mary Anne DAVEY should give you the date of death of her husband Henry DAVEY, assuming that Mary Anne IS his widow. Divorce did not come to Victoria until 1861.
Cheers, JM
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The thing is, you see, that the Vic BDM marriage cert for Mary Anne DAVEY should give you the date of death of her husband Henry DAVEY, assuming that Mary Anne IS his widow. Divorce did not come to Victoria until 1861.
Cheers, JM
I know, I just can't risk it if it does not - I know that sounds like a silly excuse, but that money would buy me groceries for a week. I can only ask for ancestry membership as expensive it is for my birthday once a year!
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I would love a grocery bill of just $24 for the week.
Cheers, JM
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I would love a grocery bill of just $24 for the week.
Cheers, JM
Baked beans are very underrated :)
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I suppose the question becomes
Do you really need Ancestry membership to do family history research when there's so many free to search live links at the various RChat resources Boards :) :) ?
Cheers, JM
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This link works today and has Henry DAVEY from Worchester??? Not very helpful at all.
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1848Sibella%20PassengerList.gif
RE marriage certificates.....sometimes a couple were not truthful if either had deserted their lawful spouse in another state!!
Essie
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At this stage I'm inclined to think your 1809 Henry b Gwennap married Elizabeth CRAGOE in 1834. They are listed in the 1851 Census with him being 44 and born there.
Also from memory Mary Ann SMITH was bpt 1816 and marrying Henry bpt 1818 is a much better "fit" (this is not good research, "fitting" people though).
There are very few Henry Daveys born in Cornwall, 1800 to 1810.
Anyhow, I'm off to see what's for dinner, baked beans -mmmm- or maybe pasties.
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Ooh Essie, I meant to add maybe he was born elsewhere such as Devon. But Worchester, hmmm.
So there are two lines for Davey...are they the same family then, I wonder?
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SIBELLA 1848
DAVEY, Henry (from Worchester), wife,
DAVEY, 3 children and another born on voyage on July 1st
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/48727628 South Australian Register 19 July 1848
Henry Davey wife three children (one of them a daughter, born at sea on 8th July)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/158926343 Adelaide Observer, 22 July 1848
Henry Davey wife and three children (one of them, a daughter, born at sea on 8th July)
I am not sure about fares to South Australia, but to me, 'children' indicates that the fare paid was for a child .... I wonder at what age would a lad or lass need to be, to be noted as 'single male' or 'single female' rather than a child, part of a family if travelling in 1848 from the ports of London or Plymouth.....
The newspaper cuttings do not give the gender of the two older children....
Did our OP's family actually arrive on that voyage
Cheers, JM
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Many married at 16 and earlier. Perhaps Mary Ann wasn't present at her dau's marriage hence the misinformation.
Cando
I took it that the recording of witnesses on the certificate being Mary Ann DAVEY and William Henry (no surname) was the bride's mother and William Henry LUKE
I note the date of this marriage is a few months before the marriage of Mary Ann and William Henry LUKE given as October 1853.
Sue
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Henry has a middle name ;D
from that 1853 marriage for his 16 year old daughter Elizabeth
Attaching a snip, as the initial could be hard to decipher
Cheers, JM
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I don't know...
The minister, or whoever wrote out the whole document, has made the same funny little squiggle between the words Elizabeth and Davey and again between Mary Ann and Davey on the witness line.
Maybe he formed the letter D in that way. :-\
Sue
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SIBELLA 1848
DAVEY, Henry (from Worchester), wife,
DAVEY, 3 children and another born on voyage on July 1st
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/48727628 South Australian Register 19 July 1848
Henry Davey wife three children (one of them a daughter, born at sea on 8th July)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/158926343 Adelaide Observer, 22 July 1848
Henry Davey wife and three children (one of them, a daughter, born at sea on 8th July)
I am not sure about fares to South Australia, but to me, 'children' indicates that the fare paid was for a child .... I wonder at what age would a lad or lass need to be, to be noted as 'single male' or 'single female' rather than a child, part of a family if travelling in 1848 from the ports of London or Plymouth.....
The newspaper cuttings do not give the gender of the two older children....
Did our OP's family actually arrive on that voyage
Cheers, JM
I never saw the worchester part! But then again the sa immigration records for me never seem to work - I must be allergic to their search function. Yes the HENRY DAVEY from Gwennap does appear in that census with ELIZABETH CRAGOE - thanks for pointing that out, at least it can partially narrow down potential parents.
On another note, the minister administering at the marriage between ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS was a weslyan minister, would that make one of the families potentially a non-conformist baptism/marriage back in cornwall???
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I suppose the question becomes
Do you really need Ancestry membership to do family history research when there's so many free to search live links at the various RChat resources Boards :) :) ?
Cheers, JM
I am starting to realize that - especially with the amount of errors I am finding in other people's family trees and the HINTS are really annoying - sometimes they are completely random and have nothing to do with the person I am researching :) Words of wisdom right there JM :)
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Let's hope this isn't HENRY DAVEY's death plot...
Image removed by moderator and transcribed here
Davey burial
11th Dec 1852 Angaston Cemetery South Australia
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And this might be the 1841 census record for the ILLOGAN birth HENRY DAVEY - not living with MARY ANN + should have had two daughters by now -
Image removed by moderator and transcribed
Henry Davey
1841 Census of LLogan in Cornwall
age 30-34
born 1807-1811 approx in Redruth Cornwall page 13 H0107 142/25
Charles Davey 70-74
Ann Davey 75 -79
Henry Davey 30-34
All born in Cornwall
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LOL, you're on a roll!
The Local Govt Assoc cemeteries database has that Davey burial as Thomas DAVEY d 11 Dec 1852 bur 13 Dec 1852. Not that I can find him in the Deaths Database.
http://barossa.dcw.lga.sa.gov.au/page.aspx?u=383&c=9643
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The problem I have with Henry, son of Charles and Ann, is that he's a tailor and he's not going to survive in Aust. Oh wait, he didn't.
I think SA was desperate for miners and I got the impression from reading the news article that that's what the men on the Sibella were selected for.
On the other hand, can't find him in the 51 census.
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Find A Grave - not your Henry. Details include Thomas Henry's birth and death registrations.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h0z/
Record is duplicated
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h10/
My resource has a different date for the death so either there has been a mistranscription from the burial register or the details in the register are incorrect. Seen it all before!!
DAVEY Thomas Henry 13 weeks Status Child Relative John DAVEY [Father]
23 Dec 1852
Residence Bowden Death Place (not recorded) Ade 2/174
The submitter of the information on Find A Grave may have taken the death information from the microfiche.
I doubt you will find Henry's death and if you find it in SA it won't help with the names of his parents as that information is not recorded on SA death certificates until 1992.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368744.0
If it was my research my next step would be Mary Anne's 1853 marriage certificate.
Cando
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I prepared this post earlier and although it is probably not necessary now you may as well have it :)
http://www.familyhistorysa.info/shipping/passengerlists.html
DAVEY Henry, Mary Ann SMITH, 2 ch, Christiana My (b@sea) arrived in SA 1848-07-16 aboard Sibella from London via Plymouth 48-04-06
And another source of the same information
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/sibella.htm
And another
http://www.southaustralianfamilyhistory.com/shippinglistSibella.htm
http://www.southaustralianfamilyhistory.com/SibellaleavesforAdelaide1848.htm
APRIL 4-5 Today those immigrants who waited patiently at the depots boarded with their trunks and few belongings. Thomas Bunney. Henry Davey, John C. Eddy, Robert Peters, William Thomas, Thomas Warren and their families, along with Martin and his sister Peggy Trebilcock and many more. All hoping for the future in the voyage ahead.
JUNE 22 Conditions are difficult now as the rains are very heavy and the wind it is very squally. Mrs. Davey also heavy in child and finding it very uncomfortable as the ship made little headway in heavy seas. A woman fell down the hatch escaping with only bruises.
JUL 5 Babies everywhere and Henry and his wife Mary Ann Davey awaiting their turn any day now, weather good.
JUL 8 There was a fair wind today, but not as squally as it had been, of which Mrs. Davey was very thankful. When the cry of a little daughter was heard Henry Davey gave a sigh of relief.
JUL 9 Captain read the service and it was a squally afternoon. It was hard to sleep with babies crying as the sound of one cry would start the others. Mary Ann and Henry Davey named their daughter Christiana Mary.
Cando
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The problem I have with Henry, son of Charles and Ann, is that he's a tailor and he's not going to survive in Aust. Oh wait, he didn't.
I think SA was desperate for miners and I got the impression from reading the news article that that's what the men on the Sibella were selected for.
On the other hand, can't find him in the 51 census.
I know it doesn't mean it is the truth, but on the marriage cert from ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS the occupation of HENRY DAVEY is listed as miner though - not tailor though but with the gold rush anyone became a miner. Would a tailor really be first choice for selection for mining to send to SA? Or VIC for that matter, as that is where the family ended up.
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I've also noticed that of the 15 children ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS had not one is named MARY/ MARY ANN - bad feelings between mother + daughter perhaps?
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Are your reading all the posts and the links?
Feedback would be appreciated even if it is a thank you.
You can't base research on assumptions.
Cando
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Are your reading all the posts and the links?
Feedback would be appreciated even if it is a thank you.
You can't base research on assumptions.
Cando
Sorry Cando yes I am reading all posts and trying to keep up. I didn't realise that I wasn't thanking everyone enough - so thank you everyone now and in advance for all of your help. I have previously read the shipping diaries of the 'Sibella' and I appreciate you checking the DAVEY grave that I had found. I appreciate very much your help and I am sorry I have not been thanking everyone each time for their postings :)
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Are your reading all the posts and the links?
Feedback would be appreciated even if it is a thank you.
You can't base research on assumptions.
Cando
Sorry Cando yes I am reading all posts and trying to keep up. I didn't realise that I wasn't thanking everyone enough - so thank you everyone now and in advance for all of your help. I have previously read the shipping diaries of the 'Sibella' and I appreciate you checking the DAVEY grave that I had found. I appreciate very much your help and I am sorry I have not been thanking everyone each time for their postings :)
A general thank you is simply common courtesy. We are all volunteers trying to help you.
Cando
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I know that MARY ANN went on to Marry WILLIAM HENRY LUKE on 01 OCT 1853 in Castlemain, Victoria. I do not have the certificate so cannot verify that she is a widow, but marrying again so soon after giving birth makes me think that Henry died.
Or the child was Wm's :-\.
Back to your original request to find the death of Henry DAVEY.
I wonder who gave the consent or witnessed this marriage...
Father's names were not recorded on South Australian marriage registrations until 1857. It would appear that Henry may have been alive in Feb 1852.
WILLIAMS John Henry 22 years Status single Father unrecorded
DAVEY Emma 16 years Status single Father unrecorded
13 Feb 1852
At the residence of Mr Davey Reedy Creek Ade 10/46
Cando
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I have spent a number of hours looking through my offline resources for NSW for an adult Henry DAVEY (or Davy) in any location in NSW 1848-1853. I have not yet found him. I know I have said this earlier, but as far as I can determine, it is the date that Mary Ann gave as his date of death when marrying in Vic that needs to be the next piece of information to help us all help the quest.
NSW BDM website allows for wildcard for surname and for a range of dates for the search. So, if we had the date of death, we could use the wild card and say a week either side of that given date and look at all the available index entries there for their Early Church Records holdings. The subject heading includes SA, VIC or NSW :)
Cheers, JM
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The first of nine WILLIAMS children born in SA to Emma Mary nee DAVEY was at Tungkillo, some born at Kanmantoo, and the youngest at Yelta near Moonta. So John Henry WILLIAMS was also a miner.
Essie
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I have spent a number of hours looking through my offline resources for NSW for an adult Henry DAVEY (or Davy) in any location in NSW 1848-1853. I have not yet found him. I know I have said this earlier, but as far as I can determine, it is the date that Mary Ann gave as his date of death when marrying in Vic that needs to be the next piece of information to help us all help the quest.
NSW BDM website allows for wildcard for surname and for a range of dates for the search. So, if we had the date of death, we could use the wild card and say a week either side of that given date and look at all the available index entries there for their Early Church Records holdings. The subject heading includes SA, VIC or NSW :)
Cheers, JM
Thanks JM,
Does that mean that even if he didn't die in NSW they would hold the record? It is pre federation, but as far as I can see the family never ventured (or at least stayed) in NSW - but again that is pure speculation going off the facts. Would you recommend purchasing MARY ANNE SMITH'S marriage to HENRY LUKE in 1853 cert or her death cert from NZ? And also, does the fact that ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS were married by a Weslyan minister mean anything at that time? They would then be non-conformists back in cornwall, yes? Just trying to get everything clear.
And thanks to the help from Cando + Essie, much appreciated your help in my search :)
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And if someone has any ideas and wouldn't mind giving their expert opinion, completely random but can anyone decode what the word is after the name 'MARY TREVENNAN' - she is 55 and living in the same house as another ancestor of mine, but I can't determine what the word nor the cross mean. I can see she was born 'in county' (Cornwall) but I'd love to figure out that word to help me understand the rest of the family situation? It is the 1841 census.
But back on HENRY DAVEY, he def docked in Port Adelaide with his family so he didn't die at sea; i will check prison records to see if a davey is recorded soon after 1848.
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And if someone has any ideas and wouldn't mind giving their expert opinion, completely random but can anyone decode what the word is after the name 'MARY TREVENNAN' - she is 55 and living in the same house as another ancestor of mine, but I can't determine what the word nor the cross mean. I can see she was born 'in county' (Cornwall) but I'd love to figure out that word to help me understand the rest of the family situation? It is the 1841 census.
But back on HENRY DAVEY, he def docked in Port Adelaide with his family so he didn't die at sea; i will check prison records to see if a davey is recorded soon after 1848.
Could it stand for 'Ind' as in Independent means?
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Yes it does, transcribed as follows
"Hosking Row,1,Mary Trevennen,55,Independent,In county,
Elizabeth Edwards,45,Baker,In county,"
Don't get too hung up about non-conformists in Cornwall. They still generally registered baptisms, you can see the separate search item on the OPC menu.
This link gives the coverage by Parish. It took a while to get to all of the parishes.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/coverage/non-conformist-coverage/
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......
Thanks JM,
Does that mean that even if he didn't die in NSW they would hold the record? It is pre federation, but as far as I can see the family never ventured (or at least stayed) in NSW - but again that is pure speculation going off the facts. Would you recommend purchasing MARY ANNE SMITH'S marriage to HENRY LUKE in 1853 cert or her death cert from NZ? And also, does the fact that ELIZABETH DAVEY + RICHARD HENRY EDWARDS were married by a Weslyan minister mean anything at that time? They would then be non-conformists back in cornwall, yes? Just trying to get everything clear.
And thanks to the help from Cando + Essie, much appreciated your help in my search :)
In your subject heading you have written (possibly SA, VIC or NSW) so I have been looking through my NSW offline resources. Now you are saying that the family did not venture into NSW.
Re the denomination for Elizabeth's marriage. There was NO Established Church in the Colonies. It may be that the family were Wesleyan back in the UK, but you may also find that they married in C of E in the UK because actually that was not against Wesleyan Methods....
Re what records are held by NSW BDM .... well, for example they do not hold all the extant parish registers, but from 1810 the clergy of all denominations were meant to forward (transmit) summary information to the NSW Chaplains. Not all clergy did so, and not all the transmitted records arrived, and not all transmitted records are extant, and at different times between 1810 and 1856 (commencement of NSW BDM civil registrations) changes to the admin system meant there were changes in where the clergy (of the various denominations) who were not NSW Chaplains transmitted their summary records.
The geographical territory that was administered by NSW governors and then by NSW Parliament was adjusted quite a number of times prior to Federation.
Tasmania (VDL) hived off in 1825
Swan River Colony 1829
South Australia 1836
New Zealand 1840
North Australia 1846 (did not last)
Victoria 1851
Queensland 1859
Re what certificate to purchase .... well for any NZ document I think I would go for the printout option, but I would first check with the NZ BDM webpage as to what would actually be recorded on an NZ death registration at that time. Of course, a death registration does not give you first hand information, and if the informant was a family member, a generation younger than the deceased, then you are relying on second or third hand info provided at a time of grief.
Re the Victoria BDM not yet purchased, perhaps Mary Ann may have wanted to be known as a widow, rather than actually being a widow in the sense that her husband had died. So perhaps that info may be unreliable too. Perhaps the clergy conducting that marriage may have been a little scant on the info recorded too. On the other hand, it should have information about the children of that marriage to Henry DAVEY.... It may well be that Henry and Mary Ann became separated sometime sooner than you have first considered. It is important to remember that regardless of who physically fathered a child, if a woman was married to Mr XYZ, then it was that man who was legally the father. It is also important to remember that children's surnames matched that of the name that Mum was known by. And in that era, a married Mum was Mrs XYZ, until she chose to became known as Mrs ABC ....
Perhaps best to continue with the Baked beans meals and do some ponderings before you rush out and spend another $24 or so and go without a week's supply of groceries.
Cheers, JM
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Sorry JM, yes I did say NSW in the title as a last resort, so thank you for being thorough and checking those records - I am starting to see that anything is possible for this family, including splitting up and HENRY hiking to another state. If only they had less common names!
That makes sense RE pre federation records - that is very helpful just to know, I hadn't realised I was treating them like we do now as seperate states so I guess anything pre-fed you need to take with a grain of salt - from a family history point of view, Australia wasn't the best at keeping records in the 19th century :) And it will be very helpful to know the dates when the states broke off, thank you very much JM.
And thank you spike for your input - she seems to be the head of the household so I figured it must stand for 'independent' - just trying to determine whether the husband of the women below was still alive in 1841 as he is not listed in the census as living with the family - the search continues for both branches.
I have decided to buy the print out of the MARY ANN + HENRY LUKE marriage in VIC - fingers crossed it has something useful to use!
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Okay - thoughts?
Sorry Sarah I don't know how to transcribe this cert accurately?
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Doesn't answer all the questions, unfortunately.
The Minister hasn't asked the date of death of Henry Davey. Perhaps as has been suggested the trouble with Henry is that he's not dead yet. Hence the marriage in Vic then off to New Zealand to live?
What's with the 3 children. I gave up on Martha on day 1, but that still leaves four.
The parents line up with several of the published trees.
She says she was born in Cornwall. Most of the trees say Shoreditch, Middlesex.
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Only three daughters went to VIC with their mother...Elizabeth, Christiana and Mary Ann.
EDITED, though I did wonder if Emma and Elizabeth were from a first marriage of Henry?
Emma Mary was still in SA in 1876.
Essie
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Yes, but she was asked how many children, living and dead did she have.
(adding, that we have seen the bpts for Emma and Elizabeth on OPC and they both have Mary Ann as the mother)
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I think some certificates for 'Martha' to know if she was a DAVEY afterall and make the 'three'.
Essie
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i have the Cornwall OPC baptism records that I assumed where Emma Mary + Elizabeth Davey's:
Day Month 09-Jul
Year 1837
Parish Or Reg District Torpoint
Forename Elizabeth
Surname DAVEY
Sex
Father Forename Henry
Mother Forename Mary Ann
Residence Torpoint
Father Rank Profession Miner
Day Month 10-Jan
Year 1836
Parish Or Reg District Torpoint
Forename Emma Mary
Surname DAVEY
Sex
Father Forename Henry
Mother Forename Mary Ann
Residence Torpoint
Father Rank Profession Miner
And my thinking would be that the third daughter was CHRISTIANA DAVEY who was born on the 08 JUL 1848 on the Sibella coming to Australia as noted in the ship's diary and also registered upon arrival?
Christiana Mary Davey
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1848
Birth Place: Aboard Sabella
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father: Henry Davey
Mother: Mary Ann Smith
Page Number: 80
Volume Number: 2
There is also Mary Ann Davey who was born + registered soon after again in SA:
Name: Mary Ann Davey
Birth Date: 7 Sep 1850
Birth Place: Reedy Creek
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father: Henry Davey
Mother: Mary Ann Smith
Page Number: 110
Volume Number: 3
There is also a marriage listed on the IGI for HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH for 22 SEP 1834 in Torpoint, Cornwall.
Could it be possible that MARY ANN SMITH only counted her unmarried daughters as 'children' on her marriage cert to HENRY LUKE as they might have still been dependent on her?
Thank you all though for your help so far and theories!
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Did you see for yourself the IGI marriage?
Family Search is not working for me, but GenUKI says that there is NO IGI coverage of this (Torpoint) Parish. I thought I saw that FindMyPast had the marriage records pre 1873, but I now can't find a ref. I wonder what site David's sub was for?
Your Elizabeth Edwards in C41, was her husband Nicholas?
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Record set on FindMyPast suggests Cornwall Marriage Records. It is listed as Parish Antony Place Antony. Fine print says Transcriptions: Cornwall Family History Society
Juliaanna has said on the other thread that this is an old name for Torpoint.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=741013.0
Thank you! I know ANTONY is the name of the parish before it was TORPOINT - they are interchangeable from the data on the OPC. Does the record provide any other info at all? Anything would be super helpful :)
Which is why I knew to add status in previous post :D
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Did you see for yourself the IGI marriage?
Family Search is not working for me, but GenUKI says that there is NO IGI coverage of this (Torpoint) Parish. I thought I saw that FindMyPast had the marriage records pre 1873, but I now can't find a ref. I wonder what site David's sub was for?
Your Elizabeth Edwards in C41, was her husband Nicholas?
No - that Elizabeth Edwards married Richard Edwards and had a son, my ancestor, Richard Henry Edwards in approx 1834 in Redruth. I'm trying (at the same time as this search) to find her maiden name and why Richard Edwards disappears from any census records - i'm guessing he died.
The info on the TORPOINT marraige comes from another rootschatter who found it for me - quote =
"I did the same and you are right.
I accessed my subscription site and I see a marriage in a place called ANTONY (antony is right next to torpoint and the two are almost interchangeable it seems in records). Others may know of it
22.9.1834 (for the marriage of HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH)
Sorry I forgot that please mind my typo about the IGI.
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Yes, the Cornwall FHS handed all their records over to FindMyPast. But that's ok if you've seen the marriage. The rest of us will have to wait until the next free weekend!
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Yes, but she was asked how many children, living and dead did she have.
(adding, that we have seen the bpts for Emma and Elizabeth on OPC and they both have Mary Ann as the mother)
that's not exactly the question she was asked .... and
Could it be possible that MARY ANN SMITH only counted her unmarried daughters as 'children' on her marriage cert to HENRY LUKE as they might have still been dependent on her?
Thank you all though for your help so far and theories!
We need to read the actual heading for the column that gives us 3 children. The three children are those of her marriage with Henry. (Children by each former Marriage). The clergyman ought to have recorded their names and ages, and ought to have recorded the date of Henry's death. He did not. Perhaps he was acting with restraint, ie to record without causing embarassment to Mary Ann as the register entry was to pass into the hands of unknown clerks in the civil BDM, clerks who may not have the training of a clergyman to be discreet.
However, Mary Ann told the clergyman that there are 3 children by her former marriage, and those three are living. It is not three dependent children (that was not the question asked of her). It is not any child born outside of that marriage.
So, this is the opportunity for Mary to speak privately with the clergyman, and to be recorded as a widow, and to marry the man that may have fathered her younger baby/babies. That is of course speculation on my part, but I am quite sure that clergy (across the centuries) have a broad and open mind to variations in the domestic relationships of their congregations. I am sure that until Queen Victoria's husband died, that the word 'widow' included any female with children and without a male to support those children. I am sure that is how the word 'widow' has been used in NSW from settlement 1788 until NSW Divorce laws of the 1870s.... I am also sure that if Henry had say returned to the UK, or had moved on to say VDL, NSW, VIC, NZ or South Africa, or perhaps had caught gold fever and gone to California in 1849 that he will be difficult to isolate from any other Henry Davey. Mr Google says Prince Albert died 14 December 1861.
May I suggest these three children are the most logical : the two children who boarded the ship with Henry and wife, and the baby born during the voyage.
Cheers, JM
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Morning everyone,
I have had a very helpful email from the Torpoint archivist for the OPC who I emailed in the hope she could help me with anymore details about HENRY DAVEY + MARY ANN SMITH. She has sent back a fantastic email that might be able to open up a few more doors -
Hi Anna,
Thank you again for yours. What a complicated family with far too many
possiblities!
Firstly, the marriage. It did not take place at Torpoint. Torpoint was
split off from the parish of Antony in the early 1800s when a new church
was built, Torpoint having been just a chapel of Antony before then. As
the dockyard on the Devon side expanded Torpoint became a popular place
for dockyard workers to live as there was the Torpoint ferry to take
them over the River Tamar to work and to Plymouth. The new church was
built for this rather unruly influx. However, Antony Church remained the
burying ground for the parish, and the church with old traditional ties
to forbears. Henry Davey and Mary Ann Smith married there 22 September
1834, but I have no further details. This is characteristic of earlier
registers which only record simple names.
Very close in date is the marriage of Richard Davey to Selina Jewell
28.6.1835 and the marriage of Richard Davey to Ann Trathern 2.10.1836.
Whether this is a case of the same person rapidly widowed and remarried,
or two different Richards I can't say, but I did wonder whether there
might be a family connection to your Davey (see Richard Davey latter on.)
I have looked to see whether there was a chance to identify your family
in the Torpoint area. I have checked some local Daveys, in particular
the Davey family of Sheviock where Henry seems to have been a family
name but, as far as I can tell, their Henry's are all accounted for.
You mentioned the two baptisms in Torpoint and these are Elizabeth
(possibly Ann as middle name) b.1836 and Emma Mary b.1837. The perhaps
most interesting detail on the baptismal record is that the father was a
miner. I have checked the originals of these records to be sure thay
have been transcribed fully and accurately - and they have. However,
Torpoint is not really a mining area. There were mines nearby at
Menheniot - silver and lead - which certainly drew miners from Cornwall
to them but my initial reaction would be that there's a good chance that
a miner in Torpoint came from another area. The Torpoint area and east
Cornwall was a more agricultural area - it had a mild climate which
produced early fruit and vegetables fertilised with night soil from
Plymouth - and there was a constant demand for foodstuffs, woollen cloth
and meat to supply the naval dockyards.
The great mining area was around the Redruth area and further west,
where the granite ridge down the centre of Cornwall bore copper, tin and
rarer minerals like cobalt. When times were hard Cornish miners
emigrated with their skills to areas with similar geology - Australia,
South America and South Africa.
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CONTINUTED -
I have looked for a possible Henry Davey elsewhere, as I'm sure you have
also. I am kite-flying a bit, but thought you might find it useful to
see what I have come up with - you may know it all already, or know why
it is not useful but . . .
The census (which you can access using FreeCen) has 2 entries that
seemed interesting:-
1841 Census
Piece: HO107/141/3 Place: Penwith -Cornwall Enumeration District: 8
Civil Parish: Camborne Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 44 Page: 19
Address: Tuckingmill
Surname First name(s) Sex Age
Occupation Where Born Remarks
DAVEY Mary F 30 M Fuzer
Cornwall
DAVEY Henry M 20 Copper Miner
Cornwall
DAVEY Christina F 65 Ind
Cornwall
DAVEY Ann F 12 Cornwall
DAVEY Emma F 5 Cornwall
HOCKING Mary F 1 Cornwall
1851 Census
Piece: HO107/1915 Place: Redruth -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1a
Civil Parish: Illogan Ecclesiastical Parish: All Sts. Tuckingmill
Folio: 357 Page: 9 Schedule: 33
Address: -
Surname First name(s) Rel Status
Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DAVEY Christiana Head W F
75 Supported By Daur & C Cornwall - Gwennap
DAVEY Mary Dau U F 41
Safety Fuze Maker Cornwall - Illogan
HOCKING Mary D. Grndau U F
11 Safety Fuze Maker Cornwall - Camborne
(Apologies if the formatting is a mess at this point - but this gives
you the detail to check against.)
Now this gives you some interesting bits and pieces. The first point
is that the 1841 census did not give accurate ages but used
approximations, so 20 could cover 20-24. This location is right in the
heart of the mining area.
Could Emma be Emma Mary? Could Ann be a scribal age- error and really
be Elizabeth(?+Ann) or merely another family member of some sort. And
where is Mary Ann Smith?
At first I wondered whether Mary aged 30 & 41 could be Henry's wife but
I think she is Christina's daughter and Mary D Hocking is her
illegitimate daughter working with her in the fuze (= fuse) factory. I
think Mary D died June 1855.
Assuming Christina/Christiana was her mother I then tried to check
Mary's birth. What I have come up with is:-
John Davey (a miner) = Christian Tregilgas 22.5.1793 at Gwennap.
They had:-
Mary 1794 Gwennap
Christian 1798 Crowan
Jenefer 1801 Gwennap
Mary 1809 Illogan
John 1813 Illogan
Richard 1815 Camborne
Henry 23.3.1818 Illogan.
You can confirm this on the C-OPC site - Christian is sometimes listed
as Cristian. I realise this would make Henry very young to get married
but it is not impossible. It is also possible that he was baptised a
while after birth. If you are interested in this tree it would give you
a generation further back.
However, I have been unable to find any members of this family in later
life - except perhaps that John Davey who dies at Tucking Mill in 1840
aged 77 seems a possible husband for Christiana. However, a missing
miner often means they have either moved right out of Cornwall to
another area of the country - often to the coal mining areas of northern
England - or have emigrated. So, did the men emigrate?
I suspect you already have the record of Henry Davey and Mary Ann Smith
who emigrated on the Sibella from Plymouth 6-4-1848 and arrived via
London in Southern Australia 16.7.1848, having had Christiana Davey
during the voyage. I think the names of Mary Ann Smith and the daughter
Christiana (after her grandmother?) on this immigration record make
strong connections between the Tucking Mill family and the Torpoint
baptisms and this family.
Two points - where was Henry Davey between the birth of the first 2
children and the third? Its an oddly long gap. Did he emigrate first
and then return for the family? Maybe you can find that out? Secondly,
is there a record with Henry's age on it in Australia? Does it agree
with the birthdate? If it does not, then it does not invalidate matters
because people did lie about their ages. My ggrandfather and his wife
gave their ages on the wedding certificate as 23 & 19 but were actually
32 & 16!
I did find a probate record in Australia for a Henry Davey d.9.5.1877
listed as a miner, late of Dunolly, and with probate granted to Marian
Davey - I did wonder whether this might be Mary Ann Davey.
I'm sorry this doesn't really sort your family out but I hope it is of
some interest.
Thoughts? And thanks Spike - I have a feeling that MARY ANN SMITH was not exactly the most godly and honest women now...
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Hello
My Great Grandmother was Mary Ann Davey, the daughter of Henry Davey and Mary Ann (nee Smith)
Like yourself I have been unable to find any record of the death of Henry Davey or the birth of Martha, the youngest daughter, I will be returning to Australia in June to continue the search revisiting Kapunda and trying Burra for any records, I'm hoping a Sextons or burial record my exist even if the death wasn't registered.
I do have information on the rest of the family and have located the grave of Mary Ann (Smith/Davey/Luke) in NZ.
If there is any way I can assist further please let me know
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Hi Geoff,
Lovely to meet a long lost very distant cousin! Please do keep me updated if you happen to come across any new research for the HENRY + MARY ANN DAVEY saga - I am guessing you are in NZ if you are the descendant of Mary Ann the daughter? Do you have an ancestry account at all because it would be brilliant to be able to share any more info on the family.
Regards :)
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Hi, nice to meet you as well and yes I am in NZ after living for some time in Aus. My Grandfathers mother was Mary Ann Davey who married Alexander Cormack in Lawrence (Tuapeka) which is in Otago NZ. Elizabeth Edwards, who married in Castlemaine, Christiana, Mary Ann and Martha all came to Lawrence with William Henry and Mary Ann Luke. Christiana Bloxham, Mary Ann Cormack and Martha Uren were their married names. William Henry and Mary Ann Luke were well respected in the district, both Wesleyan's as mentioned, William was head of the Temperance Union and Mary Ann a midwife. I have recently found (what I think) is their grave, unfortunately the rather elaborate headstone has fallen over face down but I am planning to have it restored in the near future. I have also found the grave of Christiana Williams (a daughter of Emma Mary) in Moonta SA and traced Emma Mary Williams to Broken Hill where I believe she is buried. I do believe Henry Davey passed away around the same time Martha was born mainly because his name has been carried on down through the family, one of my Grandfathers brothers was named Henry Davy Cormack for example, which would be unusual if there was another reason for his disappearance. I don't spend much time on Internet Genealogical sites but am on Facebook if you wanted to drop a line it would be great to hear from you.
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Will do Geoff :) Elizabeth Davey (married Richard Henry Edwards) came back to australia and then back to NZ where they settled - they ended up having fourteen children that survived! First son was Henry Davy Edwards who came back to australia and is my direct ancestor, so I think you are correct on the account that Henry Snr must have died around the time of Martha's birth given MARY ANN remarried so soon afterwards. I'll send you a bell on facebook so if you find anything else in your travels I'd love to here it!
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I don't spend much time on Internet Genealogical sites
We only notify you when you have a new reply Geoff ;)
Sarah
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Hello again !
I have finally found some time to check a few Davey records and the Cert posted recording the Marriage of William Henry Luke to Mary Ann Davey.
I see there has been some discussion in regard to the number of children (3) recorded but I also note Mary Ann's age has been recorded as 30 where as my research shows she would have been 37, 10 yrs older than William Henry.
My theory is that the incorrect age was given as such a wide gap in ages wasn't ''socially acceptable " in those times.To support this theory, if she was 30 this would have meant that her first two daughters, Emma and Elizabeth, would have been born when Mary Ann was aged 13 and 14 so to support the age given these two daughters, one who was married and the other very soon to be, were not "mentioned"
It is important to note that B.D.M Certificates are only as good as the information provided at the time.
Often the informant was illiterate and the ability of the clerk, especially in the case of births and deaths, was questionable so a certificate must be viewed as part of the puzzle, not the key piece. This is certainly the case with Martha Davey who's existence was "written off" through the lack of a birth certificate.
I will be back in S.A in two weeks to continue the search for the elusive Henry Davey and will keep you posted.
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Thanks Geoff please do keep us posted on your finds!
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Hello again.
Well I'm back from Australia but still without any clues to the fate of Henry Davey although I was fortunate to find and visit Reedy Creek where I believe Mary Ann Davey, my Grt/Grandmother was born and also where Emma Mary Davey married John Henry Williams in 1852. Based on the dates the first mine at Reedy Creek operated, 1847/1852 I have come up with a theory as to the family's movements following this date but I will now start looking for some further proof to back this. It was quite something to walk into the mine that I believe Henry worked in over 160 years ago and to explore the town site where the family may have lived, I plan to return next March to look for further evidence that I am on the right track !
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Thanks Geoff that must have been a memorable trip :)
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Hi all,
Just joining this group.
I am another who has Mary Ann Davey b. Reedy Creek Kapunda 1850 as his gt gmother.
Have been puzzled about Henry Davey and how Mary Ann Davey came to be married in NZ at 16.
Information has trickled back indirectly via Geoff Pye and I am updating my RootsMagic database.
What a family line my gt gmother has 55 children. They made them hardy.
Regards to all.
Kevin O'Brien, Christchurch [kob]
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The 55 children were birthed between her and her 3 sisters.
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The family has now restored the grave headstone of William Henry and Mary Ann Luke in Lawrence, if anyone would like a photo, please let me know