RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: tookie9293 on Tuesday 09 February 16 20:05 GMT (UK)
-
Hi. I'm new to this, so please bear with me. I am looking for my great grandfather, James Wilson Pickthall, born about 1851, in Lancashire. His wife was Hannah Jackson and their son Ralph Henry (born 1890) was my grand father. It seems there are no records of James prior to his marriage. His father may have been named Joseph. Please, any information will be appreciated. Thank you
-
not this chap?
baptism
First name(s) James Wilson
Last name Pickthall
Gender Male
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1849
Baptism date 14 Apr 1849
Residence Dalton In Furness, Lancashire, England
Place Dalton-In-Furness
County Lancashire
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Pickthall
Mother's first name(s) Bridget
-
that particular James W Pickthall is in Hampshire in the 1861 census....which is also where your chap married?
-
Baptism: 14 Apr 1849 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Jas. Wilson Pickthall - Son of John Pickthall & Bridget
Abode: Lindale
Occupation: Joiner
Baptised by: H.N. Walton
Baptism: 15 Feb 1851 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Wm. Pickthall - Son of John Pickthall & Bridget
Abode: Lindale
Occupation: Joiner
Baptised by: J.M. Morgan, Vicar
Baptism: 25 Dec 1852 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Agnes Jane Pickthall - Daughter of John Pickthall & Bridget
Abode: Lindale
Occupation: Joiner
Baptised by: H.N. Walton
Baptism: 28 Jan 1855 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Esther Ann Pickthall - Daughter of John Pickthall & Bridget
Abode: Lindale
Occupation: Joiner
Baptised by: H. N. Walton
Baptism: 24 May 1857 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Mary Pickthall - Daughter of John Pickthall & Bridget
Abode: Orgrave Cottage
Occupation: Joiner
Notes: [earlier heading indicates baptism at Ireleth Chapel]
Baptised by: H: N: Walton
-
although by 1871 the family are back in Newbarns, Dalton, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
-
Large family as well in 1861! All born Dalton-in-Furness
RG 9; Piece: 638; Folio: 58; Page: 49
Portsmouth, Portsea Island
John Pickthall 40 Carpenter
Bridget Pickthall 39
Elizabeth E Pickthall 14
James W Pickthall 12
William Pickthall 10
Agnes J Pickthall 8
Esther A Pickthall 6
Mary Pickthall 3
Margaret Pickthall 2/12
James Pickthall 35 brother Sawyer
James W Denny 47 m in law? Dock labourer
-
James Wilson Pickthall and Mary Philippa were married for 13 years in 1911.
Marriage of James Wilson Pickthall to Mary Philippa Kenworthy, showing James father as John Pickthall: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNZZ-837
-
did he marry 3 times?
First name(s) James Wilson
Last name Pickthall
Name note -
Marriage year 1876
Marriage date 26 Sep 1876
Marriage place Millom
Father's first name(s) Joseph W.
Father's last name Pickthall
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Jackson
Spouse's age 0
Spouse's father's first name(s) Joseph
Spouse's father's last name Jackson
Residence Millom, Cumberland, England
-
First name(s) JAMES WILSON
Last name PICKTHALL
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1885
Registration month -
JAMES WILSON PICKTHALL married one of these people
MARY JANE HOLLOWAY, HANNAH JACKSON
District SOUTH STONEHAM
District number -
County Hampshire
-
1851 census
Lindale, Division or Chapelry of Ireleth, Ulverstone, Lancashire, England
John Picthall Head Married 1821 Carpenter Aldingham, Lancashire
Bridget Picthall Wife 1822 Wife Dalton, Lancashire
Elizabeth E Picthall 1847 Dalton, Lancashire
James W Picthall 1849 Dalton, Lancashire
William Picthall 1851 Dalton, Lancashire
-
Marriage: 21 Sep 1846 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
John Pickthall - Full age, Joiner, Bachelor, Gleaston
Bridget Denney - Full age, Spinster, Lindale
Groom's Father: James Pickthall, Shoemaker
Bride's Father: William Denney, Farmer
Witness: J. W. Denney; Arthur Pickthall; Eleanor Pickthall
Married by: James M Morgan
-
Baptism: 14 Jan 1821 St Matthew, Dendron, Lancashire, England
John Pickthall - Son of James Pickthall & Elizabeth
Abode: Gleaston
Occupation: Shoemaker
Baptised by: Jno. Pattenson, Minister
Performed at: Ireleth
-
did he marry 3 times?
First name(s) James Wilson
Last name Pickthall
Name note -
Marriage year 1876
Marriage date 26 Sep 1876
Marriage place Millom
Father's first name(s) Joseph W.
Father's last name Pickthall
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Jackson
Spouse's age 0
Spouse's father's first name(s) Joseph
Spouse's father's last name Jackson
Residence Millom, Cumberland, England
1898 Marriage gives father's name as John.
-
did he marry 3 times?
First name(s) James Wilson
Last name Pickthall
Name note -
Marriage year 1876
Marriage date 26 Sep 1876
Marriage place Millom
Father's first name(s) Joseph W.
Father's last name Pickthall
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Jackson
Spouse's age 0
Spouse's father's first name(s) Joseph
Spouse's father's last name Jackson
Residence Millom, Cumberland, England
1898 Marriage gives father's name as John.
i realise that,,,,but mistakes have been made,,,,worth noting in case,,,,also wondered about her surname,,,,he may have married a sister??
-
possible marriage- a Cordwainer is a Shoemaker.
Marriage: 16 Nov 1816 St Mary the Virgin and St Michael, Urswick, Lancashire, England
James Picthall - 24, Cordwainer, Batchelor, this Parish
Elizabeth Robinson - 19, Spinster, this Parish
Witness: Isabella Robinson; Thomas Picthall
Married by Banns by: Wm. Ponsonby, Vicar
-
just to prove James Wilson's mother's maiden name
Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name
PICTHALL James Wilson Dalton Cumbria Certificate Services DENNEY
-
Thank all of you so much. I know Hannah Jackson was my great grandmother and they were married in Hampshire. She committed suicide in 1895 in St Olave Southwark London. Mary Kenworthy would be my step great grandmother. I think great grandfather was married to Hannah's sister, Elizabeth. All the census reports I have looked at and my grandparent's marriage banns all point to James Wilson being born some time around 1853, so I'm ruling out John and Bridget as his parents. Once again, thank you all so much.
-
There is only 1 James Wilson Pickthall (or any other variation) in the birth reg. between 1848 & 1854 - Born 1849
1861, 1871, 1881 ages 12,22,32 ie born 1849
1891 not found
1901 age 47
1911 age 59
so as he got older he varied his age perhaps to be a nearer match to his various wives?
a tree on ancestry from a direct descendant of Ralph Henry (incl a photo) has James Wilson's parents as John & Bridget
-
you say you have the marriage certificate of James & Hannah. How old are they both on that and who are named as their fathers and their occupations
-
I have the marriage banns for my grandparents, Edith Haley-Whitely and Ralph Henry Pickthall, November 1919, Leeds Yorkshire. James Wilson Pickthall is listed as deceased and was a contractor. Did James change his age as time went on? Don't know. Trying to locate the banns from Hampshire for James and Hannah. I love a mystery.
-
there are some interesting articles about the death of May Pickthall in 1887. There is a long article in one paper if you have access to the Southampton papers. Otherwise a short version can be found by googling Hannah. There is another article available about her suicide. Reading between the lines it sounds like after each child Hannah suffered what today would be diagnosed as severe post natal depression.
-
i think we have found the correct family...just my opinion. Ages on censuses are not to be relied on..and even ages on marriage certificates can be wrong,,,as people tried to make themselves younger,,or older. As pointed out,,in the census alone he is b 1852..1854...and 1849.
-
another article has James (clerk of works) being declared bankrupt in Brighouse in 1892
-
just for researchers info
Name: Ralph Henry Pickthall - compositor
Birth Year: abt 1890
Age: 29
Marriage or Bann Date: 22 Nov 1919
Parish: Buslingthorpe, St Michael, Yorkshire, England
Spouse: Edith Whiteley (widow)
Father: James Wilson Pickthall - contractor (deceased)
Spouse Father: William Haley - butcher (deceased)
on James marriage to Mary Kenworthy he names his father as John but no image available for more details
-
has anyone found him in the 1891 census ?
-
in 1881 he is with an Elizabeth,,,which would tie up with the marriage to Elizabeth Jackson.
1881 census
?, Midsomer-Norton, Clutton, Somerset, England
James Wilson Pickthell Head 1849 General Contractor Dalton, Lancashire
Elizabeth Pickthell Wife 1857 Cumberland, England
Fred W Pickthell Son 1878 Blackburn, Cumberland
Bessie Woodland 1869 General Servant
-
I'm with lancsann - there is only one James Wilson Pickthall born in the relevant period. In 1851 and 1861 John and Bridget give his birthplace as Dalton but in 1871 they state it is Lendal which is what James himself gives as his birthplace is 1901!!
It sounds like you do not have the marriage details when he married Hannah Jackson in 1885 Hampshire. You need to know these details to correctly work your way back.
Certainly, the one married to Elizabeth Jackson in 1876 and the one married to Mary Phillipa Kenworthy are the same man even though online marriage records gives his father as Joseph W. in 1876 and John for the latter. His marriage certificate to Hannah will confirm occupations of both him and his father and hopefully that his father is indeed John.
In 1871 when John, Bridget and family are back in Dalton John's occupation has changed from carpenter to that of a Dock and Harbour Inspector. James is a Draughtsman Modelmaker which lead on nicely to his occupation in 1881 (and thereafter) as a General Contractor (Engineering).
In 1881 (in Midsomer Norton, Somerset) he has a 3 year old son Fred W. (Frederick William birth Dec.1877 Blackburn). His wife Elizabeth is shown bc.1857 Cumberland and there is death of an Elizabeth Pickthall bc.1857 died Mar.1885 Taunton. If this is she he wasted no time in remarrying to Hannah Jackson in Sept.qtr.1885 South Stoneham. I wonder if there were further children born to he and Elizabeth between 1881 and 1885??
So frustrating not to be able to locate James and family in 1891 Census.
Annette
-
That 'Lendal' will actually be Lindale as shown in James baptism (not too far from Dalton)
Baptism: 14 Apr 1849 St Mary, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Jas. Wilson Pickthall - Son of John Pickthall & Bridget
Abode: Lindale
Occupation: Joiner
-
An Albert James Pickthall birth is reg'd Dec.1879 Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan and a death entry shows for Sept.qtr.1880 Clutton (registration district for Midsomer Norton where family living 1881) so think this may be a child of James and first wife.
Annette
-
First name(s) James Wilson
Last name Pickthall
Occupier's first name(s) James Wilson
Occupier's last name Pickthall
Owner's first name(s) Wm
Owner's last name Rogers
Date Mar 1891
Year 1891-92
House number 20
Address Claremont Grove
Location Didsbury Township
Title of record Poor Rate Assessments
-
ive looked at the 1891 census for Claremont Grove,,,all names...cant see him. :(
-
I just read the article. Poor Hannah, poor May. This is a part of the family history we never knew.
-
Can you please send me the link to Hannah's suicide?
-
sorry I can't give you the link. I found it by searching through some newspapers which I have access to via my library members card. Someone else may be able to find you a similar article as it was in more than one newspaper.
James does seem to have moved around presumably with different contracts. That poor rate assessment was 1891 was in Didsbury. In 1892 he was in a bancruptcy court in Brighouse, which if I remember rightly was where one child was born.
-
I did find a site which lists all the newspapers. Joined and will purchase. I'm also going to see if I can obtain his marriage certs from Derby and Hampshire. They may help in finally determing his birth and parentage. Thank you!
-
To everyone who has been posting: Thank you all so much. Sorry that I have not been on the website for quite some time. As my English ancestors would say Happy Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!!!