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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: whiteout7 on Sunday 14 February 16 13:11 GMT (UK)
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I am currently looking at this family
"Robert MacMurray - Lambeg/
Drumbeg died 10 Oct 1874 aged 60; husband of Elizabeth who d. 16 Mar 1902 aged 89; father of Agnes, Elizabth, Sarah, Robert John & Maria (Hull); buried Hillhall Presbyterian graveyard"
I have Robert McMurray Snrs (died 1874) will to his children including Robert John and all his sisters.
Excutors John McMurray of Tullinacross in Lamberg and Reverdend James Dawson crawford of Hill Hall
The witnesses are Andrew Hamilton and William John Murdock.
Just found a another McMurray of Hill Hall - William.
The Will of John M'Murry late of Tullinacross County Down Farmer deceased who died 23 December 1876 at same place was proved at Belfast by the oaths of William M'Murray Farmer and the Reverend James Dawson Crawford Presbyterian Clergyman both of Hill Hall (Lisburn) same County the Executors
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What I am looking for is evidence of an Eleanor McMurray of Hill Hall that went on to marry Andrew Hamilton in 1810.
Who were the parents of John, William and Robert McMurray of Hill Hall?
John McMURRAY Esq. Lambeg of Lisnatruck; a gentleman; mentioned in Deeds dated 1857
Registry of Deeds, Dublin Vol 185811 p144
http://irishdeedsindex.net/index.html
?Related?
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The Will of Andrew Hamilton late of Ballywalter in the County of Down Farmer deceased who died 19 February 1863 at same place was proved at Belfast by the oaths of John Hamilton and Andrew Hamilton the Younger both of Ballywalter aforesaid Farmers the Executors.
Will mentions sons John & Andrew, wife "Eleanor Hamilton otherwise McMurry", daughter "Anna Maria Hamilton otherwise Campbell" & her "present husband David Campbell", daughter "Margaret Hamilton otherwise Adams" & "Thomas Adams her present husband" ...
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Thankyou so much, I have looked for that for so long Aghadowey!
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Young Andrew Hamilton-
Probate of the Will of Andrew Hamilton late of Ballywalter County Down Gentleman who died 21 May 1905 granted at Belfast to Sarah Jane Hamilton the Widow.
Will mentions sister "Margaret Hamilton now Adams" & wife Sarah Jane Hamilton.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ballywalter/Ballywalter/1256539
Hamilton Sarah Jane of Sea View House Ballywalter county Down widow died 31 October 1933 Probate Belfast 5 June to Eleanor McMurray Bowden widow. Effects £402 16s. 6d.
Hamilton John Gilliland of Seaview House Ballywalter county Down farmer died 17 June 1945 Probate Belfast 8 July to Eleanor McMurray Bowden widow and Georgina Hamilton Bowden spinster. Effects £328 10s.
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Partial family tree-
Andrew Hamilton (d.1863) m. Eleanor McMurry
The Will of Andrew Hamilton late of Ballywalter in the County of Down Farmer deceased who died 19 February 1863 at same place was proved at Belfast by the oaths of John Hamilton and Andrew Hamilton the Younger both of Ballywalter aforesaid Farmers the Executors.Will mentions sons John & Andrew, wife "Eleanor Hamilton otherwise McMurry", daughter "Anna Maria Hamilton otherwise Campbell" & her "present husband David Campbell", daughter "Margaret Hamilton otherwise Adams" & "Thomas Adams her present husband" ...
1. John Hamilton
2. Andrew Hamilton (c1820-1905) m. Sarah Jane Gilliland (c1852-1933)
3. Anna Maria Hamilton m. David Campbell
4. Margaret Hamilton m. Thomas Adams
Andrew Hamilton (c1820-1905) m. Sarah Jane Gilliland (c1852-1933)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ballywalter/Ballywalter/1256539
Probate of the Will of Andrew Hamilton late of Ballywalter County Down Gentleman who died 21 May 1905 granted at Belfast to Sarah Jane Hamilton the Widow. Will mentions sister "Margaret Hamilton now Adams" & wife Sarah Jane Hamilton.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballywalter/Ballywalter_Town/265659
Hamilton Sarah Jane of Sea View House Ballywalter county Down widow died 31 October 1933 Probate Belfast 5 June to Eleanor McMurray Bowden widow. Effects £402 16s. 6d.
1. John Gililand Hamilton (c1876-1945)
Hamilton John Gilliland of Seaview House Ballywalter county Down farmer died 17 June 1945 Probate Belfast 8 July to Eleanor McMurray Bowden widow and Georgina Hamilton Bowden spinster. Effects £328 10s
2. Eleanor McMurry Hamilton (c1878-aft.1945) m. ___ Bowden (d.bef.1933)
1. Georgina Hamilton Bowden (c1903-aft.1945)
3. Andrew Walter Hamilton (1880-1951 Canada)
Birth: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGK4-2HF
Death: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLPL-X4R
4. Margaret Anne Hamilton (c1883-aft.1901)
5. James Renwick Hamilton (1887-1945 Canada)- family
http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/m/u/l/Terriann-Muldowney/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0323.html
6. Sarah Jane Forsythe Hamilton (c1891-aft.1911)
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Wow, I'm not sure where you found all this but there is quite a bit I didn't have. I haven't really worked down all the children, especially the Canadian ones. I had been told there were Hamiltons in Canada but have never been able to tell who. Some of these Hamiltons went to America and I have those ones.
The Ballywalter Hamiltons http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=672846.msg5187632#msg5187632
Eleanor McMurray's parentage still a mystery
When did she die? Between 1863 -1901.
Her husband Andrew Hamilton b circa 1783
Thankyou Aghadowey :) :) :)
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John McMurray of Tullinacross - Tullynacross in Poyntzpass (Armagh/Down Border) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poyntzpass
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What I posted is a partial family tree easily compiled using freely available resources-
1901 & 1911 census
Family Search
GRONI's database
PRONI's Will extracts
Google
There will be other resources, many of them also free, where you'll be able to get more information on the family
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Yes and thankyou but I am trying to go back from Eleanor McMurray and not forward.
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Never know- someone else might come across this thread if they are searching for Eleanor's descendants ;)
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Might have found something in Proni wills
Eleanor's brother?
Robert McMurray of Hill Hall, Drumbeg 1874
son Robert John McMurray
dau Jane McMurray
dau Sarah McMurray
dau Maria McMurray
dau Martha Elizabeth McMurray
Witnessed Andrew Hamilton
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just to keep your interest flowing
from http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ map ref 21a {not to be confused with 21A} Robert McMurray 37 acres land an office and house£7pa Townland Hill Hall, Parish of Drumbeg Switch to modern google for satellite then street view I think 21A still stands withtwo round rings beside house the a was just above and looks as if its gone demolished. But it was a substantial others are living in10 shillings per annum valuation houses so keep digging The valuation continuation sheets exist at PRONI and can be looked at online do followup must rush
mcmurray earlier
tithes none found
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Thankyou BallyaltikilliganG that does look interesting
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Found a bit more:
Robert MacMURRAY . Lambeg/Drumbeg died 10 Oct 1874 aged 60; husband of Elizabeth who d. 16 Mar 1902 aged 89; father of Agnes, Elizabeth, Sarah, Robert John & Maria (Hull); buried Hillhall Presbyterian graveyard.
*(Did Maria marry a Hull??)
Maybe this is him too?
Robert McMURRAY Esq. Lambeg of Lisnatruck; a gentleman; husband of Eliza Boyd; mentioned in Deeds dated 1857 Registry of Deeds, Dublin Vol 185811 p144.
Robert McMurray married to Eliza Boyd.
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ooh
Alfred Hull of "Fairview" Hillhall county Down farmer died 5 August 1936.
Was his wife Maria McMurray? Or his mother?
and
"Robert John M'Murray late of Fairview Hillhall County Down Farmer who died 12 February 1894 at same place were granted at Belfast to Charlotte Ann M'Murray of 34 Buckingham Palace-road London the Widow."
Huh? Why was his wife in London?
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House 16 in Hillhall Lower (Drumbeg, Down) (Free Irish Census)
Hull Alfred 52 Male Head of Family Presbyterian
Hull Anna Maria 50 Female Wife Presbyterian
McLeer William 55 Male Servant Presbyterian
McDermott Ellie 26 Female Servant Roman Catholic
So Maria must have married locally
No children born alive in this census result for her......
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Maria Hull married 9 years-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Drumbeg/Hillhall_Lower/248917
Alfred Hull married 1901 Anna Maria McMurray, Fairview, daughter of Robert-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10326/5758873.pdf
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Robert John McMurray's death- married but informant was coroner-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05980/4700587.pdf
Belfast News-Letter, 14 Feb.1894: DEATH OF MR. ROBERT J. M'MURRAY.- At Fairview House, Lisburn, the late residence of Mr. Robert J. M'Murray, Dr. Parke, J.P. held an inquest yesterday on the remains. Mr. Samuel Carson was foreman of ...
Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Robert John M'Murray late of Fairview Hillhall County Down Farmer who died 12 February 1894 at same place were granted at Belfast to Charlotte Ann M'Murray of 34 Buckingham Palace-road London the Widow.
Administration granted 2 March 1894- perhaps she went to stay in London after husband died.
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More of Charlotte McMurray's connection to London-
Northern Whig, 27 Nov.1890: November 23, at 1, Prince's Mansions, London, S.W., the wife Robert Murray of daughter.
Cant see marriage in Ireland- was she English? A Charlotte Ann Thorp married July/Sept.1881 St. George's Hanover Square district and a Robert John McMurray on same page.
Belfast Telegraph, 6 Oct.1881: September 28, St. George’s Church, Hanover Square, London, by the Rev. Charlee E. Greenaida[?], M.A., Robert J. M'Murray, of Hillhall, Lisburn, to Charlotte, elder daughter of the late W. Harvey Thorp, Hadley, Suffolk, England.
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have you seen the big book The Hamilton manuscripts : containing some account of the settlement of the territories of the Upper Clandeboye, Great Ardes, and Dufferin, in the county of Down / by Sir James Hamilton, knight ... ; printed from the original mss. and edited by T.K. Lowry. Belfast : Archer & Sons, [1867] viii, 166p,cv ; 22 cm.
Some references for Hamilton and McMurray family trees, in the Blackwood Family History manuscript trees Collection in the LinenHall library, Belfast. I should warn you you will be lucky to find your family line as both are popular family names Visit if you can give them warning helps, if you cant then I suggest you write to them asking them for photocopying estimates only if they think your knowledge relevant and be prepared to pay the extra for post and packing if you are tempted. the following prepares you but is likely to be out of date “The Library welcomes all research enquiries, whether made in person, by phone, fax, letter or e-mail. Enquiries from members will be answered free of charge. Visitors from afar, and in particular those engaged in serious research projects, are recommended to make prior contact with the Library to ensure that they receive the best possible service. More complex enquiries should be made by letter, fax, or e-mail. Enquiries of this kind from within the British Isles will normally be answered free of charge, apart from any copying and postage charges. A minimum charge of £2 will normally be made in respect of overseas enquiries. A4 photocopies b&w are 20p. The Library may be able to assist those with more extensive research requirements on terms subject to negotiation with the Librarian. Contact the Library for further information on info@linenhall.com or Telephone 028 9032 1707. Their address is The Linen Hall Library,17 Donegall Square North, Belfast BT15GB, Northern Ireland, see their website for contact details or use Email:info@linenhall.com.The volume references for
HAMILTON Volumes 2p172 Rowan, 10p137, 20T, 27 Caddell, 47 Pirrie, 52 Drumadoney a sketch, 85 Australia, 91 {N=Notes, T=Transcript so better version elsewhere
McMURRAY Volumes 6N, 31 Hoping this is includes new information for you
Ballywalter and HillHall are 25 miles apart one on the east coast of ards peninsula, the other the other side of southwest Belfast. Which makes me cautious so are you certain the Eleanor McMurray married in Hillhall or Ballywalter is the correct one for the Hamilton marriage.s of Ballywalter There are church records.PRONI has an online church records listing of surviving records https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/PRONI-Guide-to-Church-Records.pdf look under Drumbeg see the earliest are Dunmurry closeby
Ros Davies does her own version under her churches heading eg Ist & 2nd Presbyterian church records eg Baptisms from 1824, marriages from 1845; North of Ireland FHS (www.nifs.org) has baptisms 1820-1923 & marriages 1803- 1922. the marriage seems a find if she married in Ballywalter, but its more likely by tradition to be at Drumbeg/ Dunmurry which has NSP nonsubscribing Presbyterian earliest records
end of part1
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continued
1796 Flaxgrowersofireland Neither are located
1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Booksbased upon the work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’slisting for each parish in Northern Ireland,The relevant original books are in the
Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast
Hamilton, Andrew-Townland: Ballywalter Year: 1834-Ballywalter-Down-
Hamilton, Widow Townland: Dunover Year: 1834-Ballywalter-Down-
1863 Griffiths Valuation has 38 entries leaving out subleases, this reduces to the following, some may be 2nd properties extra bits of land or a same named father and son etc
I used quick index https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php
and the detailed version with map http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&familyname=hamilton&firstname=&offset=20&countyname=DOWN&parishname=BALLYWALTER&unionname=&baronyname=&totalrows=24&PlaceID=0&wildcard=
Hamilton William J. Ballyferis map ref 1 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton Andrew Ballywalter mapref 25;26;27;28 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton Andrew Ballywalter Ballywalter mapref 29 Down
Hamilton Andrew Ballywalter map ref 50;51;52;53;54 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton John Ballywalter map ref 86;87 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton John Ballywalter map ref 101 24Ballywalter Down
Hamilton Andrew Village of Ballywalter map ref 101 24 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton Andw. Village of Ballywalter map ref 101 134 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton Anne Village of Ballywalter map ref 101 175 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton John Village of Ballywalter map ref 101 10 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton John Village of Ballywalter map ref 101 133 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton Anne Dunover House map ref 4A,B; 5 Ballywalter Down
Hamilton James Dunover House map ref 4A,B; 5 Ballywalter Down
then I looked up Rod Davies maps Ballywalter village/ sits inside Ballywalter Townland ontop of it sits whitechurch townland on top of that sits Dunover to the west and Ballyferis to the east. so it’s a focal point for hamiltions. Ros davies Co Down website has 3 sub data bases to contain all the Hamiltons in Co Down which I presume you have seen
note there are no McMurray/McMurry in the parish
moving to McMurray HillHall is officially in Drumbeg townland in Drumbeg parish which adjoins Lambeg parish in ros Davies there are 3 entries which you know
Robert MacMURRAY .Lambeg/Drumbeg died 10 Oct 1874 aged 60; husband of Elizabeth who d. 16 Mar 1902 aged 89; father of Agnes, Elizabth, Sarah, Robert John & Maria (Hull); buried Hillhall Presbyterian graveyard MIs
William McMURRAY .Lambeg/Drumbeg of Hillhall; died 25 Dec 1890 aged 70; husband of Jane who d. 12 Nov 1887 aged 40; buried Hillhall Presbyterian graveyard MIs
Robert McMURRAY Esq. Lambeg of Lisnatruck; a gentleman; husband of Eliza Boyd; mentioned in Deeds dated 1857 Registry of Deeds, Dublin Vol 185811 p144
Griffiths has
Mc Murray Margaret Ballyaghlis Drumbeg Down
Mc Murray William Lisnatrunk Lambeg Down
Good luck onwards
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Wow, need to catch up.
I was thinking that he was
England and Wales Census, 1861
John Mc Murray Head M 34 Scotland (a draper)
Charlotte Ann Mc Murray Wife F 34 Hazlewood, Suffolk
Thomas Rackham Mc Murray Son M 2 Hazlewood, Suffolk
Maria Ca(r)son Mc Murray Daughter F 0 Hazlewood, Suffolk
George Macmurry Brother M 22 Scotland
James Macmurry Nephew M 21 Scotland
Edward Kennedy Lodger M 22 Scotland
John Scott Lodger M 18 Scotland
*John McMurray b: 1826/1827 Knowhead, Sanquhar, Dumfires
Think I will have to keep working on this although I see Aghadowey has posted a bit with Carson in it (leading an inquest, doubling back to read it)
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Ballywalter and HillHall are 25 miles apart one on the east coast of ards peninsula, the other the other side of southwest Belfast. Which makes me cautious so are you certain the Eleanor McMurray married in Hillhall or Ballywalter is the correct one for the Hamilton marriage.s of Ballywalter There are church records.PRONI has an online church records listing of surviving records https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/PRONI-Guide-to-Church-Records.pdf look under Drumbeg see the earliest are Dunmurry closeby
Ros Davies does her own version under her churches heading eg Ist & 2nd Presbyterian church records eg Baptisms from 1824, marriages from 1845; North of Ireland FHS (www.nifs.org) has baptisms 1820-1923 & marriages 1803- 1922. the marriage seems a find if she married in Ballywalter, but its more likely by tradition to be at Drumbeg/ Dunmurry which has NSP nonsubscribing Presbyterian earliest records
end of part1
Equally impossible to disprove, so far
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More of Charlotte McMurray's connection to London-
Northern Whig, 27 Nov.1890: November 23, at 1, Prince's Mansions, London, S.W., the wife Robert Murray of daughter.
Cant see marriage in Ireland- was she English? A Charlotte Ann Thorp married July/Sept.1881 St. George's Hanover Square district and a Robert John McMurray on same page.
Belfast Telegraph, 6 Oct.1881: September 28, St. George’s Church, Hanover Square, London, by the Rev. Charlee E. Greenaida[?], M.A., Robert J. M'Murray, of Hillhall, Lisburn, to Charlotte, elder daughter of the late W. Harvey Thorp, Hadley, Suffolk, England.
She must have been Charlotte Thorp then....
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In my notes Andrew Hamilton was born in Drumbeg in 1783 and died 1863 in Ballywalter. So it is likely that he was living nearer to Hill Hall at the time of his marriage To Eleanor Mcmurray and later moved to Ballywalter ....
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"Tullynacross, Lisburn, Martha Elizabeth, widow of Henry Bell youngest daughter of the late Robert McMurray, Fairview. Hillhall. Funeral to Hillhall Churchyard tomorrow (Tuesday), 4th June 1940"
Martha Elizabeth Bell.
Henry Bell of "The Hill" Tullynacross county Down farmer died 29 January 1935 Probate Belfast 19 July to Martha Elizabeth Bell the widow.
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There is proof of the Hamiltons being active in Drumbeg in Ros davies, the TABs 1823-1837 and later Griffiths 1863, see below which suggests he could be part of a Drumbeg Hamilton line. If he was not a Drumbeg native but a Hamilton from Ballywalter was visiting with his wife native for some reason that they are related . the solution would be a church baptism record ie the proof of your notes
Another thought that something happened at Ballywalter and he inherited a farm in Ballywalter already being perhaps related back to a grandfather etc
He would have been about 47 in 1830 with an established family his father speculation a James or more speculation a Brother James
ros davies gives
Miss Margaret HAMILTON Drumbeg wife of Arthur Maxwell Esq.; mentioned in Deeds dated 1721 Registry of Deeds, Dublin Vol 7 p484
Andrew HAMILTON . Drumbeg will dated 9 Aug 1825 IIW # 29256
Samuel HAMILTON . Drumbeg & Annahilt a labourer of Creevy; son of Arthur Hamilton (a weaver) ; married Margaret Kennedy 25 Nov 1853 at Cargycreevy Presbyterian Church, Annahilt; witnesses were William Wilson & John Kennedy PR/CR
Rev. Vesey HAMILTON . Drumbeg curate in Drumbeg ; died 3 Jun 1743 from fever & cough General Evening Post, London 18/6/1743
1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Books based upon the index work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’s listing for each parish in Northern Ireland, The relevant original books are in the
Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast
Hamilton, Andrew-Townland: Drumbeg Year: 1830-Drumbeg-Antrim & Down
Hamilton, Andrew-Townland: Drumbeg Year: 1830-Drumbeg-Down-
Hamilton, James-Townland: Drumbeg Year: 1830-Drumbeg-Antrim & Down
Hamilton, James-Townland: Drumbeg Year: 1830-Drumbeg-Down-
Griffiths valuation pub 1863 arranged by townland in Drumbeg see
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
Hamilton Charles Ballyaghlis Drumbeg Down map ref 7
Hamilton James Ballygowan Drumbeg Down map ref 2
Hamilton Arthur Bally Macbrennan Drumbeg Down map ref 20
Hamilton William Cargacroy Drumbeg Down map ref 42
Hamilton Samuel Drumbeg Drumbeg Down map ref 4
Hamilton Mary Drumbeg Drumbeg Down map ref 27, map ref 32, map ref 34
Hamilton James Drumbeg Drumbeg Down map ref 31, map ref 32
Andrew Hamilton (c1820 [81 in 1905 so b~ 1824-d 1905) farmer in 1901 m.~1875 see notein 1911 census
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballywalter/Ballywalter_Town/265659
Hamilton Sarah Jane of Sea View House Ballywalter county Down widow died 31 October 1933 Probate Belfast 5 June to Eleanor McMurray Bowden widow. Effects £402 16s. 6d.
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I have been researching my family McMurray from Carnalea area, my 2nd great grandmother was Catherine Ann McMurray, married William Robert Campbell in Bangor in Jan. 29 1863. Her fathers name was William he died in 1880. I haven’t been able find anything pass William McMurray.
Ian Campbell
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Does this assist your research :
Surname(s) Graveyard Civil Parish Graveyard Location County
MCMURRAY Bangor Abbey Bangor Corporation Down
Gravestone Inscription Erected by Thomas McMurray of Carnalea, in memory of his father William McMurray who died Octr 25th 1880 aged 75 years Also his mother Martha McMurray who died Octr 17th 1880 aged 81 years Also his daughter Jane McMurray who died August 19th 1880 aged 8 years Also his wife Anna McMurray who died 10th May 1898 aged 65 years Also the above Thomas McMurray who died 2nd May 1902 aged 66 years Also his son John McMurray who died 12th January 1904 aged 39 years Also his daughter Catherine McMurray who died 10th Feb 1908 aged 40 years Also his son William Thomas Mcmurray who died 20th March 1920 aged 50 years Also Mary C McMurray, wife of above William T McMurray, who died 3rd September 1960 aged 83 years [Inscription on the back]:- This stone claims 3 graves, 1 on each side.
William and Martha's deaths:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06462/4858325.pdf
Thomas's Marriage:
Record Type Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 12 May 1864
Groom Name Thomas MCMURRAY
Bride Name Anne HAWTHORN
Church Ballygilbert Presbyterian Church
Parish Bangor
Civil District
Newtownards
County Down
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11608/8272955.pdf