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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: MJW on Tuesday 16 February 16 13:14 GMT (UK)
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I’ve just received my grandfather’s War & Victory WW1 medals reissued by the MOD. These are newly struck medals with my grandfather’s details impressed on the side.
I originally had thought this was not possible as everything I'd read told me so - MOD’s medal office website states “The MOD Medal Office is not able to provide replacement World War 1 medals”. Even their medal application form states “Please note: Medals awarded prior to the Second World War can no longer be issued”.
However, I was just about to purchase replica medals when I came across a post on the Great War Forum about having returned WW1 medals reissued. Although this possibility is not specifically mentioned on MOD documents/website, it seems there is an important distinction between the words “replace”, “issue” and “reissue”. The MOD does not “replace” or “issue” WW1 medals but it can “reissue” medals if it can be shown that WW1 medals were returned.
I had to complete an application form, show that I was next of kin and provide evidence that these medals were returned (his medal card did this). Then, it was a just a long wait (6 months) but well worth it in the end.
Malcolm
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Well done Malcolm.
I'm sure this will be useful to a lot of people & hopefully the moderator will add this to the top of the page as a sticky.
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Hi Malcolm
I am sure the members of the British Medal Forum would like to see images of them. Collectors will be interested not only in the story, but also if the original dies still exist or these were made from a stock of blank medals.
Ken
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That's a wonderful result, Malcolm. Having recently applied for and received a campaign medal to which my father was entitled but never applied for himself, I can fully understand your saying that it was well worth it in the end.
Fortunately for me, I have my grandfather's WW1 medals but it is good to know that those families whose relative's medals were returned can apply for them to be reissued to their descendants.
RRTB
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Result!!!
Well done you ;) very happy for you.
Frank.
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That's great news I'm very happy for you. I did consider applying for my Grandad's returned medals purely because I would like to have them. However his beliefs were so strong in returning his medals that I decided to keep his wish and leave them alone. Whether I was right or wrong I don't know. Wishing success to all who apply.
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Hi Malcolm
I am sure the members of the British Medal Forum would like to see images of them. Collectors will be interested not only in the story, but also if the original dies still exist or these were made from a stock of blank medals.
Ken
I posted some images on the Great War Forum thread on this topic (you can see these if you're registered - easy to do). I'm not a member of the British Medal Forum but I've agreed that a member, who contacted me, can repost them so some should appear soon.
Malcolm
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Thanks for all the positive comments.
If anyone wants information about the process, let me know and I'll post some details.
I'll post a few images of the medals here if anyone is interested.
Malcolm
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This is really interesting. I will set it as a sticky topic so it will stay at the top of the page.
Milly
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Hi Malcolm
Please could you post details of how you went about obtaining the medals.
My great grandfathers WW1 medals were returned to the MOD as he no longer lived with his wife when they were issued.
Thanks
Helen
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Hi Helen
Links to the MOD medal office website.
Guidance on applying for medals
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-ministry-of-defence-medal-office
Medal Application Form
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applying-for-medals
You’ll see several statements on the website and application that WW1 medals cannot be “replaced” or “issued” (in the MOD, “issued” seems to mean produced & issued for the first time). However, medals can be “re-issued” if it can be shown that the original medals were returned – e.g. due to non-delivery.
I didn’t know the application process when I first heard about this possibility, so I emailed the medal office and asked for advice on the procedure for having WW1 medals re-issued in the circumstances of non-delivery. I then had to send a copy of his medal card (this showed his medals were returned) and they then sent me the medal application form.
I did all my communication with the MOD Medal Office by email (to DBS-Medals@mod.uk), including sending the medal card and application form.
Hope this helps. Good luck!!
Malcolm
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Thanks Malcom.
Will give it a go.
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Good Luck. Let us know how it goes :)
Milly
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I was wondering if medals sent back in protest are part of this scheme?
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I was wondering if medals sent back in protest are part of this scheme?
I don't think that medals returned in protest will be re-issued. I understand this scheme only applies where the original medals were returned due to them not being delivered to the intended recipient (i.e. the soldier or next-of-kin).
It's probably worth checking with the MOD medal office just to be sure - their contact details are in the links I posted previously.
Malcolm
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Malcolm thanks for you reply.
Mack
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Thanks for the post, it has given me hope that I may be able to claim medals that were returned, unclaimed. I hope to information you all how I get on.
Brian
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After a few exchanges of e-mails, it looks like I may be able to receive my great grandfathers WWI medals after all. Will let you know if they arrive.
Brian
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The medals have been issued to the family, after proving the medals were returned unclaimed. The medal office could not have been more helpful.
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That's great news, I'm very happy for you.
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Thanks for the update and it's good to hear of another successful application. Well done.
Malcolm
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Hi all, i also applied for my grandfathers returned medals and recieved an email a couple of weeks ago to say my application was successful ;D but it may take several months before they are issued.
regards,john.
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Would that be just for medals returned? My Grandfather's medals were stolen as part of a burglary during the 1930's so I believe, it would be good if I could have copies.
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Copies can be bought here:
http://www.awardmedals.com/ww1-medals-c-282_252_110.html
Carol
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Would that be just for medals returned? My Grandfather's medals were stolen as part of a burglary during the 1930's so I believe, it would be good if I could have copies.
I understand this scheme only applies where the original medals were returned due to not being able to deliver them to the intended recipient (i.e. the soldier or next-of-kin).
Malcolm
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Received my grandfathers two returned medals in the post this morning ;D
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Aw...so pleased for you...back where they belong....thanks for the update :D
Carol
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Received my grandfathers two returned medals in the post this morning ;D
Great news. Thanks for telling us.
Malcolm
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Copies can be bought here:
http://www.awardmedals.com/ww1-medals-c-282_252_110.html
Carol
Thank you Carol
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Hi
How do you know if your ancestors medals were returned? All my grandparents are gone so nobody to ask.
A
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Hi
How do you know if your ancestors medals were returned? All my grandparents are gone so nobody to ask.
A
His medal index card would show if any medals were returned.
This link from Imperial War Museums website explains where the medal cards can be found.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/research/tracing-your-family-history/tracing-your-army-history/medal-records
Malcolm
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I have decided to try and obtain my wife's great grandfather's WW1 medals after reading these and other posts elsewhere,but I'm unsure as to how I figure out who his surviving n.o.k would be,any hints?....
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Your wife can apply seeing as she is a great granddaughter of the soldier.
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Your wife can apply seeing as she is a great granddaughter of the soldier.
Thank you doch, so any of his g.grandchildren qualify?
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As far as I'm aware any blood relation can apply as nok.
I personally applied for my grandfathers returned medals even though I wasn't the oldest grandson.
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As far as I'm aware any blood relation can apply as nok.
I personally applied for my grandfathers returned medals even though I wasn't the oldest grandson.
That's interesting, thank you again doch.
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I made a successful application for my great grandfathers medals, unfortunately the medal office sent them to another family member by mistake, as there details were on record for a failed application. I had been able to prove the medals had been returned unclaimed, and had informed the other person of my intentions, doing everything above board, even giving the correct relation to the deceased. The other family member never mentioned to me of there intentions to claim, several years earlier and had wrongly stated that he was the grandson, not great grandson on the application. Am I bitter, yes very much so, because at the time my wife was dying from cancer, and the relative used her illness as a cover up for his lies, by saying he did not mention he had aslo put in a claim, because my wife was ill. He failed to say it was 11 years before my request and that he knew his application had neen turned down, even when the package arrived on his door, he still decided not to tell me anything about it, knowing I was waiting for the delivery. I now have little to do with him, and feel betrayed.
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As far as I'm aware any blood relation can apply as nok.
I personally applied for my grandfathers returned medals even though I wasn't the oldest grandson.
I agree with doch and, as far as I know, any blood relative can apply. I don't think the MoD do a detailed check to confirm if the applicant is the closest NOK but there has to be a level of trust that the applicant is a genuine NOK.
Good luck with your application
Malcolm
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thought i would share my good news,
following advise provided by members on here, i applied for my grandads war medals via email, they responded the next day saying yes i can have them! and a few weeks later they arrived!
so thanks all
note to others if the medal card has annotation on it that might read "Rtd" (some times its is difficult to decipher annotations) it is worth just emailing a copy of the card to the medals office and they can confirm if the medals were returned for some reason and whether or not you can apply to receive them.
regards
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Well done,delighted you got them ;D
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thought i would share my good news,
following advise provided by members on here, i applied for my grandads war medals via email, they responded the next day saying yes i can have them! and a few weeks later they arrived!
so thanks all
note to others if the medal card has annotation on it that might read "Rtd" (some times its is difficult to decipher annotations) it is worth just emailing a copy of the card to the medals office and they can confirm if the medals were returned for some reason and whether or not you can apply to receive them.
regards
Good to hear of another successful application. Well done.
It sounds like the application process is running well and much quicker than when I applied (it took me over 9 months).
Malcolm
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Thanks to your post I also applied for my great uncle's medals. Only one was returned so they sent that which is great.
However, the medal card says the other two medals were not returned yet my grandfather and his sister said didn't have medals in their possession when they died. Wonder what happened to them if they were actually delivered - lost or even pawned / sold even!!
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Thanks to your post I also applied for my great uncle's medals. Only one was returned so they sent that which is great.
However, the medal card says the other two medals were not returned yet my grandfather and his sister said didn't have medals in their possession when they died. Wonder what happened to them if they were actually delivered - lost or even pawned / sold even!!
That's good news even though you only got one.
Presumably there are no comments on the medal card against the two that you say were not returned. Which one was marked as returned?
I got two of my grandfather's medals returned (Victory medal & British War medal) but not the Star medal (this was not shown as returned on his medal card). I originally thought all his medals would have been sent out together but this was not the case. The MoD told me that Star medals started being issued from late 1918 but that the Victory & British War medal only started being issued in 1922 and were sent out together.
Malcolm
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Malcolm
I didn't know they sent them out as you described. My grandfather was entitled to 3 1914/15 star, gen madal and vic medal.
I git the Victory Medal recently. Strange it was returned - because it was sent out with Gen medal as you said.
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Just to add to your posts. My grandfathers brother had his 1914 star returned, presumably due to the fact he was killed in 1915, however after reading your post I applied, sent a copy of medal card and around 2 months later.......got a 1914 star impressed with his name, number etc.
So, thanks for putting this post on the forum!
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Jack TT, did you send as death cert??
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No, downloaded the application form, sent copy of medal card. I assume as he was KIA in 1915 battle of Loos that was sufficient.
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Jack TT, may I ask where you downloaded the form from?
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Sorry if this is duplicating, i am having trouble replying to mails.
Email:dbs-medals@mod.uk
Ask them for the form and they will send the attachment
Send application by recorded delivery as they did not receive my first application.
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Thank you for your help Jack TT, it is appreciated.
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Sorry if this is duplicating, i am having trouble replying to mails.
Email:dbs-medals@mod.uk
Ask them for the form and they will send the attachment
Send application by recorded delivery as they did not receive my first application.
Jack TT, would you mind if I send you a pm?
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No problem.
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Thanks to encouragement from JackTT, I finally took the plunge and completed the forms to claim my wife's great grandfather's medals which were originally unclaimed , one week later,confirmation of a successful application. I'll have to wait a few months for the newly minted medals, but I'm as happy as Larry. Thank you Jack.
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Thanks to encouragement from JackTT, I finally took the plunge and completed the forms to claim my wife's great grandfather's medals which were originally unclaimed , one week later,confirmation of a successful application. I'll have to wait a few months for the newly minted medals, but I'm as happy as Larry. Thank you Jack.
The medals arrived on Saturday after a little prompting by phone,to say I'm chuffed is an understatement.....
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Great stuff, only wish some of my other relatives had returned their medals as well!!!!
Who knows whats happened to the originals!
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Great stuff, only wish some of my other relatives had returned their medals as well!!!!
Who knows whats happened to the originals!
Thanks again Jack for your help with this.
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Malcolm
congratulations on getting the medals. i have a question in regards to claiming medals. the soldier's immediate family have all died out once he was killed. so my branch of the family are related to the soldier by my great great grandfather and the soldier's great grandfather are the same man. so does it matter how far back you go to find a common ancestor
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I'm no expert,so I can only tell you that my wife made the application as the serviceman concerned was her great grandfather,unfortunately, it didn't work when we later applied for his Boer War medals ( which I thought we're also unclaimed,wrongly apparently),we received the standard reply about not issuing medals prior to WW2.
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Can anyone family member apply for replacement medals as my 3rd uncle on my dad's side has medals I'd like to get for my dad ?
Thank you
Gemma
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GemmaD, I can't give an answer to that, as the medals we applied for (my wife's great grandfather's) were returned as unclaimed by the serviceman concerned,as opposed to replacements.
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Ok thank you Tom I’ll do some more research
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Malcolm
congratulations on getting the medals. i have a question in regards to claiming medals. the soldier's immediate family have all died out once he was killed. so my branch of the family are related to the soldier by my great great grandfather and the soldier's great grandfather are the same man. so does it matter how far back you go to find a common ancestor
It's probably worth contacting the MoD Medal Office to ask about this.
Malcolm
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Can anyone family member apply for replacement medals as my 3rd uncle on my dad's side has medals I'd like to get for my dad ?
Thank you
Gemma
The MoD do not provide replacement medals. They will re-issue medals where it can be shown that the original medals were not received by the intended recipient. See first post in this thread.
Malcolm
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Hello,
I am researching my Grandfathers WW1 service. I have come across a document that shows the possibility that he was awarded medals. He was also 'mentioned despatches'.
The family have no idea as to wether he collected the medals that were awarded. I was hoping that someone may be able to tell by looking at the attached document?
Any help would be gratefully received as I don't really know where to start.
many thanks xx Im looking at William Ernest KEELING
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Hello,
I am researching my Grandfathers WW1 service. I have come across a document that shows the possibility that he was awarded medals. He was also 'mentioned despatches'.
The family have no idea as to wether he collected the medals that were awarded. I was hoping that someone may be able to tell by looking at the attached document?
Any help would be gratefully received as I don't really know where to start.
many thanks xx Im looking at William Ernest KEELING
There's no indication here that his medals were returned so they were probably sent out and received by him. By comparison, the soldier listed above your grandfather had his medals returned - the notes mean Retd.(=Returned) under KR (Kings Regulation) 992 which I think covers medals returned because they could not be delivered or had mistakes in them. These medals were sent out from 1922 and many families had changed address.
It's probably worth getting his medal index card which might have more information.
Malcolm
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Hello & welcome
As Malcolm says there's no return voucher mentioned so he received them.
His MID is listed in the London Gazette.
The RE Museum have their war diary, item 10:
https://www.re-museum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Library-War-Diaries-WW1.pdf
I notice in June 1918 he also received the Meritorious Service Medal.
One anomaly he has the MC which was only awarded to Officers.
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Hi Malcom and jim,
Thank you SO much for taking the time to explain and to find these other documents.
My Grandfather was a postman before WW1 in Dorset and became a Despatch Rider during the great war. We have recently uncovered a huge array of letters and photographs which were taken to Australia by his daughter. There are lots and lots of personal letters that were sent to granny but also a huge array of photographs during training in Leighton Buzzard and also form France dated the summer 1916 (flanders/somme/ypres) .There are an awful lot of photographs with and of his fellow comrades. He has written names on them but we have no idea who they are......
The war diaries that you have mentioned at the RE museum ,would that give further indepth information as to who he served with and when and where they went?
There was a rumour in the family that some medals were given to a museum but again we have no idea if that is true or how to go about finding them....if he received the medals then it is possible the medals are out there somewhere ,how wonderful that would be to find them !!
I have attached a photo of him on his bike and also after the war with granny , we think he is a sergeant at this point.
Thank you again xx
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William Ernest Keeling
Despatch Rider
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Great photos.
Can you find any more with medal ribbons?
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His medal index card shows he was also awarded the 1915 Star medal, and first "theatre of war" he served in was France from 31/7/15.
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WOW!! Thank you for finding this out !
I've just been looking through the pictures but I cant see any others with medal ribbon/bar visible. Most of the pictures are of him serving as a Corporal. The first pictures start in June 1915 in Leighton Buzzard so that makes sense that he went out on 31/7/15.
So am I right in believing that I am looking for-
1915 Star
MC ?is this a military cross
Victory medal
British war medal
and x2 oak leaf 'mentioned in Despatches'
So next port of call is to contact the RE museum archives and pick their brains ! I will try and find out what 'B' corp were up to when they went!! Thank you so much for all your help xxxI will report back soon xx
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The MC is incorrect as this was only awarded to Officers, the minimum rank being Warrant Officer.
Other Ranks were awarded the MM.
I would ask about this anomaly when you contact them.
I would also send the photo of him with the Medal bar & see if they can ID them.
They're not Pip, Squeak & Wilfred as they were referred to as they hadn't yet been awarded when the picture was taken.
There's nothing mentioned in the London Gazette about any other award other than his MID & MSM.
War diaries seldom mention men by name but as he's been awarded he may get a mention & what he did to get them.
There will almost certainly be a charge for a copy which might be a bit expensive but even if you can find out who he was attached to & where they were stationed would be a good start.
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Hi dorsetapplecakes...
Just out of interest I wonder if the first photo was taken on Dunstable Downs as there looks to be a chalk patch in the right of the photo. Its not far from Leighton Buzzard my old home town.
Tazzie
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Hi Tazzie ,
Thank you for your reply and sorry for the delay in responding ......
The photo is marked on the back ‘ the day we went to Studland’ , my brother believes c1920 .Studland is a local beauty spot in Dorset .
We do have lots of photos of training at Leighton Buzzard and Houghton Regis with written dates in the photos from may , June and July summer 1915 . I wonder if you would recognise where any of the pictures were taken ?
I have emailed RE museum as Jim suggested but it said it could be several weeks before they respond to emails xx
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Great photos.
Can you find any more with medal ribbons?
Hello,
I have another two of William Ernest Keeling with ribbons, 'hats on' and 'hats off'.
The 'hats off' one has ranks and names on the back, except for Ernest's. He is back row, second from right.
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This time, I will try to attach the photos:
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And a close up of our man in the last picture, hat off:
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As far as I can make out, the writing goes:
Back Row
Sgt Holmes, Cpl Harry, Sgt Crofts?
Cpl Murphy, a fine chap, Sgt Husaley?.
Front Row
Q.M.S. McMacland, R.M.S. Prescott, Sgt Newman?
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Hi ....... I might be able to help with the Leighton Buzzard photos if you want to post I would be interesting.
Tazzie
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Hello Tazzie,
Here are some of the Leighton Buzzard photos.
1: William Ernest Keeling is not in this one.
2: He is at the top of the truck, with an X to the right of his head.
3: He is the man in the middle, left of centre.
May, June, July 1915
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Hi......
I can tell you where the first two are. The statue used to be outside the old fire station at the top of the high street near the market cross. It began life as the town hall with the ground floor housing a market. It was built from 1851. The lower floor was bricked in and it was used for storage becoming the fire station in 1918 I've always known it as that because the new fire station was built on a new site in 1963 just before I was born.
The second one is Church Square at the other end of the high street. The terrace behind the soldiers was built in 1855 and an incentive to buy was the offer of a first class rail ticket valid for 21 years. The parish church is just out of sight behind the end terrace and so is the war memorial, a huge piece of granite. My school was right next door in the old Cedars House. Mary Norton who wrote the Borrowers lived here as a child.
The third one I'm not sure I thought at first Spinney pool but that was dug out in 1920s. Leighton has many old sand pits around it so could be another nearby.
Lovely photos.
Tazzie
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Wow ! Thank you Tazzie ,
Sorry for the delay to reply That’s so interesting to know about the locations ! Those are just a couple of the Leighton ones .
I still haven’t heard back from the RE museum as yet but as soon as I do I will update .
Fortmap can you upload pic with them sitting by the lake? there’s more background in that one xx fortmap is my brother 👍🏻👍🏻
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Tazzie , do you still live in Leighton buzzard ?
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Hi...
No now in Milton Keynes just up the road but family all still in Leighton so back regularly.
I think its great you have the photos a snippet of happy times before going off to the front.
As a family...hubby and 2 teenage boys we have researched about 7 of our local war memorials in depth and have had some fantastic finds. Our local church now has a large volume .
Tazzie
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Ive had a look through some more pictures and found them all sitting by the lake however this is marked as 'Houghton Regis' but I would imagine it is the same place.
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A few more !!
We are very lucky to have a LOT of pictures of the time. I hope you find them intresting :)
xx
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Kit inspection in Leighton Buzzard
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Tazzie ,
In the kit inspection photo there is a spire in the background .
In our photos we have found We have a wedding photo ( will ask my brother to upload) it is labelled Leighton Buzzard July 1915. We have no idea who’s wedding it is but I am now wondering if it took place in the church in the background of the kit inspection photo?
Could the church records hold a clue to people in our pictures ?
Xx
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Hi....
Houghton regis I'm not too sure about but the other two yes.
Photo 1 Market Cross slightly to the right is the old fire station you can see the other statues at the front doors it is the market hall at the date of the photo. The building on the left of the cross is the Cross Keys pub now a bank.
Photo 2 does show All Saints church spire the chimneys are Pulfords school and the photo is by the wall in Leighton rec........an old haunt of local kids in summer.... I broke my wrist there one year!! I married in the church.
Tazzie
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Hi......
Been digging and I know of two Royal Engineers who married in July 1915. The photo if you can load it will be of help ...it might be Baptist church.
Tazzie
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Hello,
Here is the wedding photo, I'm not sure that anything can be determined from it, but thanks for looking!
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Hi......not much to go on but a couple of possible are.....
July 1915
Sgt. Major john Chapman and Emmeline Goodman. The roll of honour records him as RE.
The other George Baker to Elizabeth Mary Seems( various spellings of name on different documents).again the roll of honour states RE snapper.
George & Elizabeth married at the Wesleyan chapel. That did not have this amount of space around it.
John's bride was the organist at the Baptist chapel but that fronts onto the road so not there.
The parish church All Saints has a bricked/ cobbled walk way. It rained all day when we married and I was nervous about it being slippery.it may have been different back then.
Tazzie
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Thanks for your thoughts, tazzie.
Neither of those names appear written on any of the other photos, so I think that one might remain a mystery.
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Back on page 8 of this thread, my sister posted a medals document with a few names on it, including KEELING, William E., our grandfather.
At the top of the document, two places above our grandfather, is a Sgt. THOMPSON, William E.
We have several photos of a Sgt. Ted Thompson, in Leighton Buzzard, and some locations in France (specifically, Bailleul and Yvetote).
I guess that "E" stands for Edward and it is the same man listed in the medals document.
Here is Ted Thompson, in Leighton Buzzard, July 1915. I think he is not yet a sergeant here:
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My great uncles ww1 medal was sent to his mum he was kia .
No idea what happened to it from there . Could I apply for the medal or dont it work like that.
How much is it for a new one
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Not unless the medals were returned. As the Medal was sent to his mother after he was KIA, it is is very unlikely she would have returned it, more likely she would have treasured it in his memory.
Your best option is to buy a replica, a Google search will result in plenty of firms who sell replicas.
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If his medals were actually received by his family then the MoD will not reissue them. They will only do this if it can be shown that the original medals were returned – e.g. due to non-delivery. His medal card should state if this happened. See earlier posts in thread for details.
You can buy replica WW1 medals from several companies.
Hope this helps.
Malcolm
(Oops! 2 replies overlapped)
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Hi I have some documents in my great grandfathers service records that show that he was awarded the MM (military medal) for his action in the Second Battle of Passchendaele. According to these letters, my grandfather is asking for his medal that he was awarded but never received. He claims that he has written multiple letters to no return and in his belongings after his death he had his British War Medal and the Victory Medal but not the Military Medal despite it clearly being awarded on medal roll and in the London gazette at the time. This can only make me assume that like others here, the medal never made it to my great grandfather and was returned.
Anyone else think that this sounds about right?
And if so, do you think that these letters within his service record would be enough evidence.
Finally, if this all looks positive then how is it that I apply for this through the MOD because I have tried looking on the gov website etc but can't find the link to the applicable forms when looking for a reissue of a returned medal WW1.
Any help would be sooooo gratefully appreciated.
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Hi hols92
I don't know whether the process that's used for reissuing routine campaign medals can be used for reissuing a military medal.
Is there anything on his medal card/roll that suggests the medal was returned? That would help your case but they might consider other evidence.
Have a read through the posts in this thread to see what I (and others) did. I did all my communication with the MOD Medal Office by email (to DBS-Medals@mod.uk) including sending the medal card and application form.
Here's the Medal Application Form -
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applying-for-medals
I suggest you contact the MOD medal office as the first step, explain your situation and ask for their advice.
Good luck.
Malcolm
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Hi all I’ve read through the thread and had a question: a few people had said that it was indicated on the medal card that the medals were returned. The only document I have of my 2x great grandfather is a discharge certificate which at the top has a Class A and Class B badge with the number of the badge underneath. It doesn’t say if it was returned or not. I’m wondering if this is even the proper paperwork to determine that or not. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Edit: actually I don’t think it will matter. I see on the form you need to provide a death certificate which we don’t have :/ nobody knows what happened to him past the mid 1940’s.