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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Catling121 on Wednesday 17 February 16 12:17 GMT (UK)

Title: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Catling121 on Wednesday 17 February 16 12:17 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

I thought I'd start a general discussion about some annotations that are littered across the 1939 register and what they might mean.

For example, I've found two people, Henry Shepherd and Elizabeth A Shepherd, in Erith.
They have dates of birth against them, but in pencil are written alternatives, next to the writing "C.G.D. 21.4.42" which I'm assuming is the date of the update.

But firstly, why would their dates of birth change, what evidence did they have for this, and what on earth does C.G.D. mean?

All answers welcome. And if anyone else has any mysterious lettering, let's have it.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: josey on Wednesday 17 February 16 13:34 GMT (UK)
Good idea Chris to start an abbreviations thread. Spooky - I posted this morning about some abbreviations!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=741823.msg5884658

I have dob change - just the day, to an incorrect one - with TYA over the year. I suppose CGD & TYA could be the initials of the 'editor'? But I don't think accountability & audit trails were that common in those days.

I did find UDD - Unpaid Domestic Duties.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Mean_genie on Wednesday 17 February 16 13:41 GMT (UK)
The books were annotated by a lot of different people for about 60 years, for a variety of purposes. There is no master list of what the abbreviations and code letters mean, but you can sometimes hazard a guess. A three-letter code might be an area code, where a person moved to another district (exact addresses were not updated on the Central Register). Sometimes a code might be the serial number of the form used to notify a change of some kind - these often start with 'NR' then a number. 
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Lostris on Wednesday 17 February 16 15:01 GMT (UK)
maybe some help on the new 1939 Hints & Tips note on LostCousins ?

http://lostcousins.com/newsletters2/1939special.htm
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: axial1680 on Sunday 30 July 17 12:29 BST (UK)
I have found in two instances where a woman later re married the new surname is written in green above her name. One of these was in the 1980s! The other was in 1965 and it has 1/2 M/C written then the date 28.11.66, followed by NR no idea what that means as I looked up the marriage and it was 1965. Its a great help though.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Ellenmai on Sunday 30 July 17 14:28 BST (UK)
The Enumerator mixed up my Great Grandparents DOB's, but no one ever corrected this. I didn't find out until I bought their Birth Certificates.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 30 July 17 17:31 BST (UK)
I have found in two instances where a woman later re married the new surname is written in green above her name. One of these was in the 1980s! The other was in 1965 and it has 1/2 M/C written then the date 28.11.66, followed by NR no idea what that means as I looked up the marriage and it was 1965. Its a great help though.

The date is when the adjustment was done.  The register was updated with new married names until the early 1990's
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: poissonrouge on Wednesday 09 August 17 13:25 BST (UK)
I have found in two instances where a woman later re married the new surname is written in green above her name. One of these was in the 1980s! The other was in 1965 and it has 1/2 M/C written then the date 28.11.66, followed by NR no idea what that means as I looked up the marriage and it was 1965. Its a great help though.

The date is when the adjustment was done.  The register was updated with new married names until the early 1990's

I have a similar finding. The delay in the dates does relate to the date of update (some say the date on the form filled in by the applicant) but I wondered if the M/C related to the marriage certificate to distinguish the change from other alterations because of name change by Deed Poll or adoption that were also noted? The final initials in my entry were LA, could these be codes for different geographical areas or NHS registration areas?
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 09 August 17 15:07 BST (UK)
Hi

Welcome to rootschat

Was it Lancashire  :-\  I see one I have in 1960 has LA
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: poissonrouge on Friday 11 August 17 12:34 BST (UK)
Hi and thanks for the welcome Rosie. Have been a member for a while to occasionally view topics but this is the first time I've posted. Yes it was Lancashire, Manchester in fact, which also had me wondering about the MC.

Cheers

Roger
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 12 August 17 11:00 BST (UK)
Hi Roger
I hadn't looked to see when you registered  ;D

Mine was on Heysham, Lancashire so it probably is the county reference.  I am sure someone will advise us if we are wrong.  :)
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: MarkyP on Monday 14 August 17 14:03 BST (UK)
Hoping someone might be able to help with an annotation in red after an entry name plus some odd looking characters over a date of birth. Any clues would be gratefully accepted.  :)
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: MarkyP on Monday 14 August 17 14:14 BST (UK)
Also, just noticed to the right of the name, can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: upstream on Thursday 31 August 17 19:15 BST (UK)
This is a fascinating thread which raises the question 'Who did the annotations and why?'.
It is understandable that, as the 1939 Register was used as the basis for Ration Books, it would be worth while continuing to update it through to the mid 1950's.  But to 1990?
I guess the work was done by or in conjunction with GRO and funded by the taxpayer.  Bearing in mid the Register was not digitized, this must have been a major task and presumably, someone thought it was worthwhile keeping tabs on people all this while.  Sounds a bit Big Brother-ish to me.
Having said that, the annotated notes have been a help to me in identifying relatives.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: josey on Thursday 31 August 17 22:18 BST (UK)
The register was used as a resource for the NHS which is why it was kept up to date with name changes for women.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: upstream on Thursday 31 August 17 22:54 BST (UK)
Thanks Josey, Good explanation, although you would have thought that keeping track of people through National Insurance Numbers would have been easier.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: CarolA3 on Friday 01 September 17 09:08 BST (UK)
I guess the work was done by or in conjunction with GRO and funded by the taxpayer.  Bearing in mid the Register was not digitized, this must have been a major task and presumably, someone thought it was worthwhile keeping tabs on people all this while.  Sounds a bit Big Brother-ish to me.
Thanks Josey, Good explanation, although you would have thought that keeping track of people through National Insurance Numbers would have been easier.

None of this had anything to do with GRO.  As Josey says, the NHS 'inherited' the Register after rationing and identity cards ended in the early 1950s, and continued to update it until 1991.  It was simply a record of people's names, addresses, and dates of birth - a customer database on paper - nothing more sinister than that.

Obviously NINOs would be of no use to the NHS as they are issued by HMRC for entirely different purposes.

Carol
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: upstream on Friday 01 September 17 11:33 BST (UK)
Thanks Carol,  You are right, guess I should have said National Health Service Numbers.  I wonder why these are not annotated on the register.
The more I learn about this, the more surprising it becomes.  By 1989 there would have been 50 years worth of new-borns not included on the register so its usefulness must have deteriorated year on year.  Someone must have thought this was appropriate use of NHS manpower ..............
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: josey on Friday 01 September 17 11:46 BST (UK)
By 1989 there would have been 50 years worth of new-borns not included on the register

No reason why there shouldn't have been a parallel register of those born after the original 1939 register was completed...

My ID number - I was born in 1944 - became my NHS number until they were replaced in 1995/6. From wikipaedia: the previous system founded on wartime identity card numbers which in England and Wales used letters and digits.. I can still remember mine entirely [sad I know] & it was 4 letters + 3 integers.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 01 September 17 11:48 BST (UK)
You are right, guess I should have said National Health Service Numbers.  I wonder why these are not annotated on the register.

The NHS did not start until 1948.  ???

As the register already had a reference number allocated to everyone listed I doubt it would be necessary to add another reference
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: CarolA3 on Friday 01 September 17 11:55 BST (UK)
The Register is a snapshot of everyone living in England and Wales on 29 September 1939 (except those already in the armed forces).

Details of anyone born later, plus those who were missed from the first list, were written into additional books which have not been released.

Carol

Added - I believe this information is freely available on FindMyPast.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Mean_genie on Saturday 02 September 17 03:50 BST (UK)
For births after 29 September 1939 each birth register book was assigned a unique 4-letter code, and each birth has an entry number. This ensured that each newborn had a unique 4-letter, 3-number identity card number, which later became their NHS number.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 02 September 17 07:50 BST (UK)
This ensured that each newborn had a unique 4-letter, 3-number identity card number, which later became their NHS number.

On a letter I have seen dated 2017 for someone born 1948 - their NHS number is 10 numbers no letters   :-\
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: gifford2011 on Saturday 17 February 18 13:17 GMT (UK)
Rosie that's because everyone's number has been changed to a 10 digit one. Maybe from 1992 when the Register stopped?
I haven't a clue what mine or my children's are but I know the original ones!
In fact when asked I always give my original one too!
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Mean_genie on Saturday 17 February 18 20:43 GMT (UK)
I once spoke to someone who had been involved in the project to computerise the database; he told me that the existing numbers were in so many different letter and number formats that it was simpler to scrap them all and start again.
Title: Re: 1939 Register - Annotations and What They Mean?
Post by: Tils-Lilly on Thursday 03 January 19 13:29 GMT (UK)
Does anyone have any idea what ‘Ref C/H EX’ means on the 1939 Register?