RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Lottie1987 on Wednesday 17 February 16 21:13 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am based in the UK and need help finding an ancestor who may have died in Canada please.
Bernard William Smeed was born 3 Oct 1895 in Sussex, England but travelled from Liverpool to St John, New Brunswick in 1912, arriving on 2nd March and intending to be a farmer. His parents were John William Smeed and Clarissa Amy Burchett.
However, I cannot find any records after he arrived.
Bernard travelled with his brother John Lancelot Smeed who later joined the army and I believe Bernard may have done the same. However, I can find a death record of John Lancelot but Bernard seems to have disappeared.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Charlotte
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Attestation papers for Bernard Smeed
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=234573
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=234573
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra :-) I really appreciate your help.
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Hello Lottie
There is a passenger record on An***try showing Bernard returning home in 1919 indicating he is returning to Toronto. This record is for military returning from the war.
Will take another look around and see if I can find any more info for him.
Cheers
Lilybell
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Thank you Lilybell- unfortunately I don't have worldwide membership on ancestry and it is holding me back quite a bit!
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I don't think you would gain anything if you did have worldwide - unfortunately Canada has very strict privacy laws which is perhaps why there are a lack of records showing him :'(
Sandra
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It doesn't help but here is that 1919 return to Canada :
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6Y28-V2?mode=g&i=2&wc=36TT-R96%3A981999201%2C982157401%2C982152601%3Fcc%3D1823240&cc=1823240
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Thank you :-)
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Sadly, I see that John didn't survive the war. Here are his Attestation papers.
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=234575
Library and Archives Canada is digitizing the complete service records of WW1 soldiers and they will be available for free through their website. They are currently up to H, I believe, so you will have a bit of a wait yet.
PB
Added: in case you haven't seen it, John is memorialized here.....
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Sussex/EastGrinstead.html
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Bearing in mind that unfortunately antibiotics were not around in 1919,Bernards diagnosis on the return to Canada list, shows that perhaps his life span was destined to be fairly short.
Suggest that someone searches for him in long term institutions in Canada.
Brionne.
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That's a great point that hadn't occurred to me. Thanks so much
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Hello Charlotte
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have not had a reply back from Library and Archives Canada yet on Bernard.
I have contacted them a few days ago to make sure that they received my request and they have but they seem to be backed up.
I did find out that you do not need a obituary or date of death for soldiers files in WW1. So that means you can go onto their website and fill out the request for his military file. I believe the cost is about $15.00 Canadian. They do accept credit cards. Indicate it is for research and either ask for the genealogical package or the complete file.
I am pretty certain his file will indicate his address in Canada as he survived the war. If I receive anymore information from the Archives I will forward it onto you.
Cheers :) :) :)
Lillian
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Hi,
The Globe and Mail newspaper has Sgt Bernard Smeed, 53054, England, on the Official Canadian Casualty list, Oct 6 1916. He is under "wounded". (Printed in the Oct 7th edition of the paper)
Found an obituary for a Bernard Lancelot Smeed, born March 4 1922, died April 16 2000. The obituary doesn't mention his parents, but given his names and his age, I would think he is likely related (son?) to your Bernard William. His wife was the late Marjorie Brown (died 1992). Father of S and her husband F Scamurra, and N and her husband R Meeke. Five grandchildren are listed. His nickname was "Buzz". He worked at Hawker Siddeley.
Toronto Star, April 18, 2000, page B7.
RK
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If you think Bernard Lancelot is a relative, you can use Canada 411 to find the daughters. I was able to locate the first daughter on this site. Perhaps you could contact her to see if she knows anything about Bernard William?
http://www.canada411.ca/
RK
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Found a birth announcement from 1989 for one of Bernard Lancelot's grandchildren. Listed as Great grandmother was Agnes Smeed. If Bernard Lancelot is Bernard William's son, then Bernard William's wife is Agnes, and she was alive in 1989, (but he was not).
Another birth announcement at the beginning of 1992, one of the other great grandparents is listed (other side of the family), but Agnes is not.
Not seeing an obit for Agnes Smeed. Death would be between 1989 and 1992.
RK
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1945 Voters List has Bernard & Mrs Agnes Smeed at 48 Afton Toronto. He is shown as retired.
1957 Voters List has Bernard & Mrs Agnes Smeed at 30 Norwood Toronto. He is shown as engineer?
1965 same as 1957. He is shown as retired.
1974 Voters List has Bernard & Mrs Agnes Smeed at Apt 201, 675 Niagara St, Victoria BC. He is shown as retired.
No BC death records for either up to 1993.
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Agnes Baigrie (Baigres) married John L Smeed in 1918 East Grimstead Sussex
Agnes Smeed, 28, widow, parents William Baigrie & Rebecca Dickson married Bernard Williams, 26, parents Frank Williams & Mary Smith on 17 Jan 1922 in Toronto Ontario.
I suspect she may have married her first husband's brother and for religious or family reasons, he disguised his identity until a number of years had passed.
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I also found a passenger list for a Mr. B Smeed. 30 years Mrs B Smeed and two daughters S Smeed 4 yrs and A Smeed 7 months . He is in the Army going to Egypt.
There is something else written behind B Smeeds name but I do not know what it means.
Found this on An****try
My membership has expired so could not get another look at it so maybe another chatter could take a look.
I also posted a previous piece of information indicating that Bernard W Smeed returned to Toronto in 1919 and that his dependant was his mother as indicated on his WW! CEF Attestation . So it does not seem to me that he was married unless he hid that from the Military.
Stranger this have happened.
Lilybell
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Found the following from 1922 Toronto Directory
Bernard W Smeed emp Canuck Tool Mfg.Co.. Ltd. res 16 Algonquin Ave
I sent a request off to The Toronto Ref Library for a look up in the 1923-1925 directories. They will do 3 looks ups per day.
Cheers
Lilybell
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Bernard was my grt uncle. My grandfather Ralph Smeed did not talk much about his family to my mum. I think he left behind a lot of pain when he came to Newcastle. Many family skeletons in closet! I have done a little research and really believe that Bernard and Agnes got married. In Canada at that time is was against the law to marry yr siblings widow. It is too much of a coincidence to believe anything else. I seen something somewhere that Bernard died in Sussex but they may have wrong guy.
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I have found the marriage of Bernard William Smeed to his brothers widow, Agnes Smeed. As already mentioned, it was illegal to marry your brother/sister in law and Bernard did not marry with the name of Smeed, and gave ficticious parents:
Bernard Williams, salesman, 26, and Agnes Smeed, 28, widow married in Toronto, York Co., Ontario on 17th January 1922. He gives his parents as Frank Williams and Mary Smith!! (His brother John had married Agnes Baigrie Sept.qtr.1918 East Grinstead and had died soon after). Agnes' remarriage to Bernard shows her parents as William Baigrie and Rebecca Dickson!
suemay - the 'Bernard' who died in Sussex was an Edward Bernard Smeed who was born 22/11/1895 Southwark, London and died Dec.1976 Hastings, Sussex. (Bernard William Smeed also born 1895 but on 3/10/1895).
Annette
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Bernard was my grt uncle. My grandfather Ralph Smeed did not talk much about his family to my mum. I think he left behind a lot of pain when he came to Newcastle. Many family skeletons in closet! I have done a little research and really believe that Bernard and Agnes got married. In Canada at that time is was against the law to marry yr siblings widow. It is too much of a coincidence to believe anything else. I seen something somewhere that Bernard died in Sussex but they may have wrong guy.
Hi Suemay,
I didn't know Ralph ended up in Newcastle so thank you for that!
Bernard was my 2nd great uncle because his and Ralph's sister Clarice was my great grandmother. It would be interesting to compare trees.
Kind regards,
Charlotte
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I have found the marriage of Bernard William Smeed to his brothers widow, Agnes Smeed. As already mentioned, it was illegal to marry your brother/sister in law and Bernard did not marry with the name of Smeed, and gave ficticious parents:
Bernard Williams, salesman, 26, and Agnes Smeed, 28, widow married in Toronto, York Co., Ontario on 17th January 1922. He gives his parents as Frank Williams and Mary Smith!! (His brother John had married Agnes Baigrie Sept.qtr.1918 East Grinstead and had died soon after). Agnes' remarriage to Bernard shows her parents as William Baigrie and Rebecca Dickson!
suemay - the 'Bernard' who died in Sussex was an Edward Bernard Smeed who was born 22/11/1895 Southwark, London and died Dec.1976 Hastings, Sussex. (Bernard William Smeed also born 1895 but on 3/10/1895).
Annette
...and just like that you guys have reignited my enthusiasm for the search!
I officially love this website ;D
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Bernard William Smeed and Agnes Baigrie Smeed had two children in Canada, Bernard Lancelot Smeed and Vera Avril Smeed. I am the daughter of Vera. Bernard and Agnes were my beloved Grandma and Grandpa. My name is Janet Lynn Tomkins and I live in Toronto Canada. I am today returning from attending the 100th Anniversary Commemoration of Vimy. I have photographs of Jack, Bernard and Albert and visited Jack's grave in Ontario Cemetery near the Canal du Nord yesterday.
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Oh wow Lynn its nice to (kinda) meet you! Did you know much about Bernard's family in England? If you wouldn't mind sharing your photos they would be very interesting to see.
Charlotte x
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I really do not know anything about the English family other than that the Smeeds were originally German. Grandpa used to tell me about his great aunt Ann (his grandfather's sister) who spoke only German and kept the turkeys on the family farm. My grandparents didn't really speak of the English family in East Grinstead and my mother never knew much or heard from her Smeed grandparents or relatives. I did hear that my grandfather's mother (who I was told was French) did not like my grandmother (Agnes) which now makes sense if Agnes was married to Jack and then married Bernard when Jack was killed at the Bourlon Wood in the last 100 days of WWI. I only found out that Albert existed a few weeks ago and knew nothing of any other siblings until I was on this website (while waiting for my plane). But many things make sense, the estrangement from family and staying in Canada, the difference in ages of my grandparents and the almost total silence about the past. What is your connection to the Smeed family?
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I really do not know anything about the English family other than that the Smeeds were originally German. Grandpa used to tell me about his great aunt Ann (his grandfather's sister) who spoke only German and kept the turkeys on the family farm. My grandparents didn't really speak of the English family in East Grinstead and my mother never knew much or heard from her Smeed grandparents or relatives. I did hear that my grandfather's mother (who I was told was French) did not like my grandmother (Agnes) which now makes sense if Agnes was married to Jack and then married Bernard when Jack was killed at the Bourlon Wood in the last 100 days of WWI. I only found out that Albert existed a few weeks ago and knew nothing of any other siblings until I was on this website (while waiting for my plane). But many things make sense, the estrangement from family and staying in Canada, the difference in ages of my grandparents and the almost total silence about the past. What is your connection to the Smeed family?
Hi lynn
Bernard was my 2nd great uncle because his and Ralph's sister Clarice was my paternal great grandmother.
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So that makes us "cousins" ;-)
My first cousin is Susanne Smeed Scamurra and she has three grown children. I do not have kids but am married, Tomkins is my maiden name, which I kept as I had been practising my profession (dentistry) for five years when I married.
Susanne's sister Nancy has two children but I have lost touch with them. My mother is still alive and well at 92. Her brother, Bernard Lancelot, (father of Susanne and Nancy) known as "Bus" died around age 79 in 2000 or 2001.
Agnes lived to 96 (in 1989) and Bernard lived to 82 (1977) and they were happily married for almost 65 years.
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Lynn this information has been so helpful! Thank you so much. Are you on ancestry? If so feel free to get in touch and you can see the family tree that I have been working on. I am Charlotte_Shepherd64
I'm sat putting you all into the tree now to see how many times removed we are as cousins ;D ;D
Edit: We are second cousins once removed :)
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My mother has always kept a gold link bracelet that belonged to my grandmother (but was never worn)and wondered why the initials on it were JLS and AB.
John Lancelot Smeed and Agnes Baigrie. It has a date on it- 10-09-1918. Probably their wedding date. He must have come home to England to get married and then went back to the front. He was killed 28-09-1918, just 18 days later. My grandmother travelled to France by herself in June 1919 to find the graves of her brother William Baigrie and Grandpa's brother Jack (Uncle Jack) but now we know he was her first husband. She wrote some notes about this journey in 1977 just after Grandpa died but referred to Jack only as "Bern's brother". We used those notes and a map to locate the cemeteries and visited them last year. Very sad.
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My mother has always kept a gold link bracelet that belonged to my grandmother (but was never worn)and wondered why the initials on it were JLS and AB.
John Lancelot Smeed and Agnes Baigrie. It has a date on it- 10-09-1918. Probably their wedding date. He must have come home to England to get married and then went back to the front. He was killed 28-09-1918, just 18 days later. My grandmother travelled to France by herself in June 1919 to find the graves of her brother William Baigrie and Grandpa's brother Jack (Uncle Jack) but now we know he was her first husband. She wrote some notes about this journey in 1977 just after Grandpa died but referred to Jack only as "Bern's brother". We used those notes and a map to locate the cemeteries and visited them last year. Very sad.
Hi janet (sorry i have assumed lynn in the past because of your username!).
That was indeed their wedding date. The whole situation is very sad x
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You assumed correctly, I am called by my middle name, Lynn.
Janet is a Baigire family name, my grandmother's sister was Janet. She lived in Dalkeith Scotland her entire life. Agnes had another sister named Alice, who lived in Belleville Ontario and married Tom Horton, also a WWI veteran.
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Hi there cousins!,
Thank you both so much for the info. I have been on some hunt looking for my granddad's family. I did find Ralph's first son John Charles Smeed (my mum Brenda's half brother). I took my mum to Hayward's Heath to meet him in 2015. He sounded so much like Ralph. He was deaf and very frail and died a few months later. His mother was Violet Perry. He had Graham (and Roselyn who sadly died at 18). So emotional but so lovely they met as he never knew what happened to his father.
My granddad Ralph (referred to as 'Jack'!) left to work in Newcastle - met my grandmother Helen and never went back home. He didn't like his own dad John William Smeed and said he was nasty and beat him so lived with his granddad Charles and worked on Hopkins farm. His father John may have driven all his kids away by the sounds of it. Granddad Jack was the total opposite considering he left his family, as he had a lovely nature! He always wanted to take my mum to Sussex but never got around to it. He died in 1984 of bowel cancer.
My mum had 5 of us - Helen, Anton, Mark, me (Susan) and Christopher so Ralph has left his mark on Geordie-land.
It would be great to connect somewhere where its more private and share photo's. I am also ancestry but think you have to pay to connect with members. I am also on familysearch.org and its free. All of my info will end up on there. Or facebook group otherwise I'm not sure how we'd do it?
Thanks again Sue x
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Hi sue
Facebook would be a good idea. I have seen family tree websites but facebook would be more private i guess.
I can easily set that up now. Next time you're on try searching for smeed family tree and I will try and get as much on there before my youngest wakes up from his nap 😀
Lynn are you on facebook to join us?
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Hi Lottie,
Thanks for the quick response. I will have a look on facebook now and start uploading some photo's. I was unlucky in finding whether Clarice had children so this if great! I was last on here in Nov 16 and then looked last night and gained cousins in an instance. What would 'they' all say if they were here? Just told my mum and she is glad that the puzzle is coming together! She would love to see pictures of her Uncles so Janet/Lynne, get uploading!!
Anyway will look on FB now
Sue x
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Its all set up with just myself and my dad as members. Unfortunately my 4 year old then starting demanding lunch ;D xx
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What is group name? My fb name is Susan Wood x
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I am on Facebook. Lynn Tomkins in Toronto. What is your Facebook address?
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/647089372146373/
Will be great to "see" you xx