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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: apthorpea on Wednesday 17 February 16 23:19 GMT (UK)
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It appears that my Great Grandfather John Gerald Stewart from Drumclamph, Ardstraw Tyrone married Ellen Thompson. Ellen and her twin sister Sarah Jane were born on September 27, 1867, in Ballynatone, Co. Donegal, Ireland. She married John Gerrard Stewart on May 12, 1897, in Ballylennon Presbyterian Church, Parish of Cloghan Co Donegal, Ireland. Marrage was recorded in the Derry Journal May 27 1897.
In the 1901 census Townland of Lisclamerty, District of Kincraigy, County Donegal, Parish Raymoghey. John Stewart, her husband was not at home the time the census was taken. In the form John Stewart's name is crossed out as Head of the house and Ellen's name is added. In the 1911 census I can find one Ellen who matches the description of Ellen Stewart, she is married 11 years and is recorded as on her own but married 11 years. Ellen Thompson lived in Treantagh, Trentaghmucklagh, Raphoe, East Donegal, Ireland, on April 2, 1911.
Relation to Head of House: Head Ellen Stewart 50 years of age: Denomination Presbyterian: Birth Place Donegal: Occupation farm servant: Can read and write: Married 11 years: No children, Disability Deaf: Trntaghmucklagh in 1911 census.
I am looking for Ellen Stewart nee Thompsons death record, I cant find any records of her death in Donegal. My grandmother was born at Tullymortans Tyrone, I have a copy of her birth certificate. Mary Kathleen Stewart was born on June 5, 1902, in Castlederg, Tyrone, Northern Ireland, the child of John Gerrard and Eliza Jane. I wondered did John Gerrard marry again, even if his wife had not died. Any help that resolving the riddle. Thanks Angela
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Could this be Ellen's husband?
Stewart John Gerrard of Drumclamph Castlederg county Tyrone farmer died 15 September 1933 Administration (with Will) Belfast 1 March to John G. Stewart farmer. Effects £33 10s.
In 1911 he's a widower with 4 children (the youngest only 4 months old)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Magheracreggan/Drumclamph/852446
In 1901 John is listed as married but no wife or children in household
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Magheracreggan/Drumclamph/1722541
Strangely enough, I haven't yet found any children born in Tyrone with father Stewart that match the 1911 census or details you've posted
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Even stranger are a few online trees which confirm the 1897 marriage record you mention but say that John married in 1899 to Isabella Duncan (1873-1903) and had a daughter Mary Kathleen on 5 June 1902 with a later wife called Elizabeth Duncan (married 1916).
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CONJECTURE is that Margaret Stewart, John’s mother did not approve, although they were Presbyterian they are now C of E, or know of her son John's first marriage in Donegal. Although it was recorded in the Derry journal and Margaret was from the Parish of Ballindrait, Donegal. John may have returned to the farm to look after his siblings and the farm when his mother died, if his mother did not approve of his wife his siblings may not have approved either. He seems to have left Ellen in Donegal and lived in Tyrone.
Elizabeth Duncan who is registered in the 1911 census could have married John at a later date as in the census he is widowed. Did Ellen Stewart nee Thompson his first wife die between 1901 and 1911 and did Isabella Stewart also die? It appears that Elizabeth Duncan may have been the mother of my grandmother’s younger siblings. Elizabeth Duncan could also be related to Isabella Duncan. I can’t find either Elizabeth’s or Isabella’s marriage certificates to John. I do not think that he divorced the ladies, as divorce was not that common at that time. I can not locate the death certificates of the Ellen or Isabella or the births registered to the younger siblings at the farm at Drumclamph. Any ideas how I could extend my search Please see attached the extent of my research. Thanks for any help. Angel
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Perhaps you didn't understand my latest post?
According to several online trees, Isabella Duncan married John Stewart in 1899 and died in 1903, he then married 1916 Elizabeth Duncan (she seems to be the mother of 4 younger Stewart children). Elizabeth Duncan is with the Stewart family in 1911. If the younger children were illegitimate then they will likely be registered under Duncan rather than Stewart.
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I came across this thread as I had documented Ellen Stewart on Wikitree as part of my trawl through the parish of Raymoghy in 1901 and 1911.
Rebecca's birth record from 1911: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01529/1619860.pdf - registered as Duncan with no father
Similarly John's birth record from 1909:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01593/1640050.pdf - registered as Duncan with no father
I cannot locate a birth record for Mary.
I can find no marriage records for John other than the original 1897 marriage. I do not believe divorce was possible in Ireland at that time; given the distance between John and his actual wife I would speculate it would be possible to live as husband and wife without too much issue. It is also possible there was no Isabella and the widow status is a cover.
Hope that helps a little.
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I'm struggling to substantiate some of the information posted in this thread, not least about Isabella Duncan marrying John G Stewart in 1899 and the couple having a daughter Mary in 1902. For example, to recap this specific piece of information posted at reply #3 above:
'My Grandmother, Mary Kathleen Stewart was born on June 5, 1902, in Newtownstewart, Tyrone, Northern Ireland to Isabella Duncan and John Gerrard Stewart. Mary Kathleen, father John Stewart, living at Tullydoortans, mother Isabella Stewart formerly Duncan, fathers occupation farmer, Margaret Duncan registered the birth, was living at Tullydoortans, birth was registered on 20 June 1902. Details on birth cert. Although my grandmother's birthday was 6th January.'
Not only can I not find the 1899 marriage, but the only birth that seems to fit the detail - Mary born at Tullydoortans on 5 June 1902, mother Isabella Duncan, birth registered 20 June 1902 by Margaret Duncan of Tullydoortans, relates to John Lecky, not John G Stewart:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01911/1741207.pdf
Which reads across to this family in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Altaclady/Tullydoortans/1750993/
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Unfortunately the original poster never bothered to respond further to details posted but new resources are online.
Birth of Maggie Jane Stewart- born 12 June 1906 at Drumclamph, parents John George Stewart (farmer) and Elizabeth Stewart formerly Duncan (informant- mother Lizzie Stewart)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01730/1683559.pdf
... still typing
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Indeed, I didn't post that last night as OP had apparently already identified the record, although I didn't realise they had the wrong one.
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There are numerous inaccuracies in the details the poster has on this thread. Some perhaps due to mis-reading records and others perhaps due to family members trying to cover up illegitimacy and other scandals.
Starting with the incorrect 'facts' OP has given us- [my corrections in red]
(original post) Marrage was recorded in the Derry Journal May 27 1897. Cannot find marriage notice in Derry Journal 27 May 1897
In the 1901 census Townland of Lisclamerty, District of Kincraigy, County Donegal, Parish Raymoghey. John Stewart, her husband was not at home the time the census was taken. In the form John Stewart's name is crossed out as Head of the house and Ellen's name is added. Census doesn’t indicate that John Stewart was her husband. John Stewart was the person from whom Ellen Stewart was letting the property
In the 1911 census I can find one Ellen who matches the description of Ellen Stewart, she is married 11 years and is recorded as on her own but married 11 years. Original lists Ellen’s status as “married” with quotes around the word married
My grandmother was born at Tullymortans Tyrone, I have a copy of her birth certificate. Mary Kathleen Stewart was born on June 5, 1902, in Castlederg, Tyrone, Northern Ireland, the child of John Gerrard and Eliza Jane. Very strange because, as gaffy found earlier (reply #6), this record is completely different. (reply #3 gives mother was Isabella Duncan)
(reply #3) John's first marriage in Donegal. Although it was recorded in the Derry journal and Margaret was from the Parish of Ballindrait, Donegal. The Derry Journal readership covered an extremely large area. However, I cannot, as yet, find any trace of the marriage being announced in the 27 May 1897 issue (or any other in that period)
Mary Kathleen, father John Stewart, living at Tullydoortansm mother Isabella Stewart formerly Duncan, fathers occupation farmer, Margaret Duncan registered the birth… details on birth certificate The birth that gaffy found (more on this later) does not list a middle name and gives parents as John Lecky & Isabella Duncan
Her sister, Maggie Jane Stewart, was born on Jun 12, 1906… to Elizabeth Duncan and John Gerrard Stewart. This is the only other birth certificate I have found parents John George Stewart (farmer) and Elizabeth Stewart formerly Duncan, informant- mother Lizzie Stewart
Ellen Stewart died on December 4, 1917… Ellen Rebecca Stewart, father John G. Stewart
[1911] Daughter Mary was 8 years old at the time of the census, her father was a widower Mary’s age transcribed and clearly written as 7 not 8 and her father was widower not widow
Now, I've been checking records trying to figure this all out- see next post
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John Gerald Stewart (c1863-1933), farmer, Drumclamph, son of Charles & Margaret Stewart, m.(27 May 1897 Presbyterian Church, Taughboyne) Ellen Thompson, Lettergull, dau. of William Thompson, farmer.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Kincraigy/Lisclamerty/1188935
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002129071 (“married”)
m.? Elizabeth “Lizzie” Duncan (c1883-1948). 1911- servant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10453/5806638.pdf
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Magheracreggan/Drumclamph/1722541
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Magheracreggan/Drumclamph/852446
Stewart John Gerrard of Drumclamph Castlederg county Tyrone farmer died 15 September 1933 Administration (with Will) Belfast 1 March to John G. Stewart farmer. Effects £33 10s. Would be interesting to see the contents of his Will especially how children are mentioned
Children-
1. Mary Stewart (c1904-aft.1911).
Most likely to be Mary Lecky, daughter of John Lecky & Elizabeth Duncan’s sister Isabella who died when Mary was born?
OP- Mary Kathleen Reilly born 6 June 1902
2. Maggie Jane Stewart (12 June 1906 Drumclamph-aft.1933) https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01730/1683559.pdf (parents John George Stewart (farmer) and Elizabeth Stewart formerly Duncan, informant- mother Lizzie Stewart)
3. John Gerald Stewart (1909-aft.1933)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01593/1640050.pdf (registered as Duncan, no father listed)
4. Ellen Rebecca Stewart (1911-1917 Drumclamph)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01529/1619860.pdf (registered as Duncan, no father listed)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05202/4437490.pdf (Ellen Rebecca Stewart, father John G. Stewart)
Note: birth certificate & census list her name as Rebecca but 1917 death says Ellen Rebecca. Wonder if this is significant as John's real wife seems to have been Ellen. Also John supposedly married in 1916. So, did his wife Ellen die between 1911 and 1916?
Now comes the unravelling of Mary's birth ;D
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John Lecky (c1878-aft.1911) m.(1889) Margaret Duncan (c1868-alive 1893)- mother of Isabella Jane (1891) & Sarah Margaret (1893)
?m. Isabella “Bella” Duncan (c1878-2 Dec.1902)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Altaclady/Tullydoortans/1750993
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05671/4597380.pdf (tuberculosis- 12 mo.)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Churchlands/Kilstrule/847955 (with mother-in-law Margaret Duncan & children Martha, Mina, James, Mary)
Children-
1. Isabella Jane “Bella Jane” Lecky (4 Jan.1891 Kilstrule-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02400/1894975.pdf (father John Leckey, mother Maggie Leckey formerly Duncan)
2. Sarah Margaret Lecky (1 Feb.1893 Kilstrule-aft.1901)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02315/1867658.pdf (father John Leckey, mother Margaret Leckey formerly Duncan)
3. Martha Lecky (1 Jan.1898 Magherlough-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02095/1798319.pdf (parents John Lecky & Isabella Lecky formerly Duncan, informant grandmother Margaret Duncan)
4. Gladys/Willamina “Mina” Lecky (14 Feb.1899 Magheralough-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02051/1784801.pdf (Gladys, 14 Feb.1899, parents John Leckey & Isabella Leckey formerly Duncan, informant grandmother Margaret Duncan)
5. James Lecky (28 Mar.1900 Glenglush-17 Oct.1919 Kilstrule)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01996/1767723.pdf (parents John Leckey & Isabella Leckey formerly Duncan)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05137/4415304.pdf (informant- sister Mary Lecky)
6. Mary Lecky (5 June 1902 Tullydoortans-aft.1919)
Mother Isabella died a few months after Mary’s birth but she’d had TB for at least 12 months before her death.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01911/1741207.pdf
On 24 Nov.1919 Mary Lecky registered deaths of her Grandmother (Margaret Duncan) and brother (James Lecky)
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Incomplete Duncan family tree-
William Duncan (c1856-1901/1911) m. Margaret Shanaghan/Shannon (c1856-7 Oct.1919 Kilstrule)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05137/4415304.pdf (Margaret Leckey, 75, widow, informant- Mary Lecky)
1. Margaret Duncan (1866-alive 1893) m.(1889) John Lecky
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03529/2298670.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10733/5913233.pdf (witnesses- James Shannon, Bella Shannon)
2. William (1868) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPHF-SMJ
3. Andrew (1871) to U.S. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FP2H-9S6 & https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4NQ-ZJW
4. Isabella “Bella” Duncan (1873-1903) ?m. John Lecky
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03186/2167883.pdf (mother Shannon)
5. ? Elizabeth Duncan m.? John Gerard Stewart
6. James (c1880) to U.S. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N449-21N
7. Sarah Buchanan Duncan (1880 Magheralough) to U.S.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02873/2052616.pdf (mother Shanaghan)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N48W-H7F
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Wow yes you have found a lot of the information which I will read through. Sorry for not replying sooner, we moved to Cornwall and my husband has had 2 hip replacements.
My grandmother Mary Kathleen Reilly nee Stewart was born at Tullydoortans, Newtownstewart, her birthday was celebrated on Epiphany, 6th January 1902. Her birth certificate records the following: mother Isabella Stewart nee Duncan, Father John Gerrard Stewart, born 6th June 1902 at Tullydoortans, present at birth Margaret Duncan. The birth certificate I have of my grandmother mirrors that of Mary Lecky's born 6th June 1902 in Tullydoortans, mother Isabella Lecky nee Duncan, Father John Lecky, present at birth Margaret Duncan. Mary Lecky survived infancy, the youngest child of Isabella Duncan and John Lecky. (who were not married) In the 1960s my grandmother found it difficult to locate her birth certificate for her pension. I have a copy of it, but cant locate it on Groni. In my grandmothers family bible it has the dates of when Isabella Duncan married John Gerald Stewart. I think it was fictional and my grandmother's mother's name was Elizabeth Duncan, whether Elizabeth was a daughter of Margaret Duncan I dont know. Margaret registered the births of both Mary Lecky and Mary Kathleen Stewart and mixed up the information,- I assume. Isabella Duncan/Lecky died in Dec 1902 from TB and Margaret Duncan was left wiith Isabella's 6 young children to bring up. Elizabeth name occurs as Stewart on her two eldest daughters, Mary Kathleen and Margaret Jane's birth certificates,and on Ellen Rebecca's her name is Duncan, I cant locate John Gerald or Charles birth certificates. Elizabeth's name is Duncan in the 1911 census and in newspaper articles regarding a scandal in 1908. Later in a 1920 newspaper article her name appears as Stewart and in the 1939 census and on her death certificate as Stewart, I visited the church at Drumclamph last year to look at their records, there was no marriage registered for Elizabeth Duncan and John G Stewart. The children's baptism records were recorded under the name of Stewart. I believe my great grandfather could not marry Elizabeth as he was already married. I have the marriage certificate, the marriage was reported in the Derry Journal newspaper of 27 May 1897. I don't know when Ellen Thompson died. There is a Ellen Stewart married 11 years, living on her own in the 1911 census in Trenagh Donegal who is 50 years of age,it is possible her. Attached 2 pages from my grandmother's bible and newspaper cutting from the Derry Journal. I find it odd that no one amended the information in the bible. It must have been easy to register wrong information especially in rural areas. Thank you for reading all the information.
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Attached copy of Mary Kathleen Stewart's birth certificate
copyright image removed
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Mary Leckey's birth certificate both births registered on the 20th June 1902 by Margaret Duncan.
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Hi, I've been researching DUNCANs in Londonderry, Donegal and a bit of Tyrone.
My DUNCAN research led me on a trail via the RootsChat posts about ELIZABETH DUNCAN to find this discussion. Regarding ELLEN (THOMPSON) STEWART.
I found a news article on the British Newspaper Archive website (search index has OCR text). Seems to be an interesting and revealing story. I believe Ancestry . com has the Belfast News-Letter in it's database. - I no longer have a subscription, I now use Ancestry at my local library - for free.
Newspaper: Belfast News-Letter
County: Antrim, Northern Ireland
Published: Saturday 25 April 1903
Title: ACTION FOR DETENTION OF A WIFE. CURIOUS CASE AT LIFFORD. [which is in Co. Donegal]
As far as I can see in the text preview; JOHN STEWART, a farmer residing at Drumclamph, near Castlederg brought a civil case against R. CAMPBELL for detaining his wife... the wife is ELLEN STEWART. Story states that JOHN & ELLEN had married about 6 years previous. JOHN has asked ELLEN to come back to him, but she refuses. There is more to the story with the cross-examination of JOHN STEWART.
Same story also in Londonderry Sentinel and Donegal Independent.
So, I think this proves the ELLEN STEWART found 1901 & 1911 in Donegal is indeed ELLEN (THOMPSON) STEWART without her husband.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Newspaper: Belfast News-Letter
County: Antrim, Northern Ireland
Published: Saturday 25 April 1903
Title: ACTION FOR DETENTION OF A WIFE. CURIOUS CASE AT LIFFORD. [which is in Co. Donegal]
Same story also in Londonderry Sentinel and Donegal Independent.
Here's the article attached.
............I now use Ancestry at my local library - for free.
Not if you live in NI, you don't :(
No free access.
KG
copyright image removed
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Oops, KG, you can’t post copyright images. Thanks for the attempt.
If one lives in Northern Ireland, there are 4 Family History Centres (LDS Church of Latter Day Saints). Limited hours, with free access to Ancestry, Find My Past and other databases. - I’ve used their resources in the States.
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Ellen Stewart. Nee Thompson was married to my Great Grandfather John Gerard Stewart for a few years, she decided to leave him. That was why he never married my great grandmother, they lived together. There was a court case brought by my great grand father, in which the court threw it out as they described it more like a divorce hearing, These are two different Ellen’s, when my great great grandmother, Margaret Stewart died in 1899 in her will named all of her children that were living with her plus her 2 youngest daughters. Ellen is included in the children born around 1861. Ellen son James Stewart was born in 1882, 3 years later 1885, Margaret takes a case against (Stuart v Love) James Love to court over the seduction of her daughter Ellen. James Love her son changes his name in 1903 to Love-before he marries Jane Gourley in 1903.Jane Gourley, daughter-in-law is on Ellen Stewart’s death certificate when she died at the house of Her son in Churchtown near Castlederg. Whereas Ellen Stewart nee Thompson is in the 1901 census http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Kincraigy/Lisclamerty/1188935/, in the form B1 John Stewart is the landholder, his name has been crossed out as head of house and Ellen’s added. He at that time appears to be paying the rent. Ten years on Ellen is still living on her own, http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Trntaghmucklagh/Treantagh/507050/ 11 years married. Unfortunately Ellen Stewart Thompson is evicted In 1918 for over-holding at Labourers Cottage at Cloon, Donegal. She dies in 1927 in the workhouse in Stranolar. Ellen is a popular name in our family in both the 1800s and 1900s. Thanks for looking. Angela