RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: brigidmac on Friday 19 February 16 07:40 GMT (UK)
-
On sidelines of my research I found
Ellis Ratner who died 1911 cut his sister Caroline out of his will
(* correction misread date should be 1917 +siter's name Cecelia)
leaving his dentist business to a brother Morris
his estate divided between his father David Ratner
,unmarried sister ,neice
I wondered why Caroline was left out ;internet searches just keep coming up with dresses when i google her name
my browser is not compatible with Family Search I have a hard time with USA
research
-
I think you mean Cecilia ? I can only find Celia/Cecilia Ratner b about 1885 in Russia.
1910
David Ratner 59
Morris Ratner 30
Allens Ratner 26
Celia Ratner 25
Sarah Ratner 23
Lena Fellman
Tillie Fellman
in Wythe Ave, Brooklyn
Cecilia Ratner m Charles Silk 22 Sep 1912 Bronx, New York
I'm struggling to find an Ellis Ratner died 1911. So far I have only this :
Ellis Ratner b 1883 d 16 Jul 1917 Manhatten.
I would suggest that he didn't leave her anything as she was married and supported by her husband.
Edit : I haven't posted any familysearch links as you say your browser doesn't work with the site.
-
Hello
The census looks to read Allers who is perhaps Ellis.
Both Morris and Allers are dentists so maybe that is why the dental business was left to his brother.
Regards
Heywood
-
Thanks CB +Heywood ;yes i'd misremembered the first name from the strange google result which I can no longer find, but I had noted Cecelia
The date must have been a mistranscription
...he left a quarter share to his 14year old niece for her coming of age
as Tillie Fellman was 2 in 1905 I did wonder at that discrepancy 1917 the
Ellis the dentist did left a quarter share to his widowed sister Lena Fellman
of204 west one hundred st
and a quarter to Sadie Ratner ....I suppose this is Sarah
father David Ratner was born in Russia in 1851 he may be the one who is listed as born 1850 80 yrs in 1930 described as "inmate" Manhatten New york district
Lena Fellman + Matilda T Fellman were living alone in Quenns NY on the 1930 census ; I'm using Mooseroots for my information its quite slow and doesnt show whole census just 1 person at a time
-
So are you saying that Cecilia became Mrs Silks?
Do you have info about her?
-
only info on her ic CD saying Cecelia ratner married Charles Silk in Bronx 22nd sept 1912
It does seem strange that she wasnt left any possessions even if she did have a husband to look after her unlike widowed sister Lena F and unmarried Sadie Ratner who would have been 30
-
Cecilia Ratner m Charles Silk 22 Sep 1912 Bronx, New York
.
Here's the 1930 census for the benefit of anyone who is looking , even if the OP can't see it !
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4XG-FPR
-
Bit more info on the marriage , giving father's name David mother Tillie :
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2444-K4S
-
Connecticut Death Index -
Cecelia Silk - 15 July 1885 Non-Western Hemisphere passed away 21 September 1890 Dansbury Connecticut - aged 95 years - widowed - - father surname Ratner - Spouse Charles.
Last Residence 06482 Sandy Hook, Fairfield, Connecticut
Sandra
-
only info on her ic CD saying Cecelia ratner married Charles Silk in Bronx 22nd sept 1912
It does seem strange that she wasnt left any possessions even if she did have a husband to look after her unlike widowed sister Lena F and unmarried Sadie Ratner who would have been 30
Charles Silk was a physician according to 1930 census.
The couple show on Ellis Island records for October 1912 as US citizens sailing from St John's Newfoundland - honeymoon perhaps?
The other benefactors were widowed or unmarried. Maybe as has been said, Cecilia did not need further monies.
Unless Ellis specifically gave his reasons in his will, you will just have to presume and it might be nicer to think that it was because Cecilia had a comfortable life. :)
-
Thanks CD And Sandra
the family search page is still telling me to get a new browser
I dont suppose it tells you when the Ratners came from Russia
I doubt if they went via GB like my ancestors as they've not come up on GR searches
is ther a 1905 census for David Ratner and wife Tillie ?
I'll see what i can fiind on Ellis Island site
-
1910 shows immigration year as 1893.
-
that's saved me a lot of slog Heywood .!
yes i like to think the siblings were all close especially as Lena and her daughter also died in Conneticut in 1966 and 1982 respectively .
It's just that the posting was strange it sounded like a legal will or news report but started with the fact that 1 sister had been "cut out of will" which is not a legal term ....probably just a case of "cut and paste".
-
It doesn't sound very nice though, does it.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WCN-WT6
Death of Ellis Ratner gives father as David Rahn and mother as Tillie Epstein.
-
So Tilly named after maternal grandmother ;
So was Ellis the same man as Allens on 1910 census or an elder brother ?
-
It does read more as Allers so I would go for that. He is a dentist too.
-
New York, New York City Municipal Deaths
Name Ellis Ratner
Event Type Death
Event Date 13 Jul 1917
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Address 204 W 114th St
Gender Male
Age 34
Marital Status Single
Race White
Occupation dentist
Birth Date 1883
Birthplace Russia
Burial Date 17 Jul 1917
Cemetery Highland View Cem
Father's Name David Rahn
Father's Birthplace Russia
Mother's Name Tillie Epstein
Mother's Birthplace Russia
-
New Jersey State Census, 1915
Name Cecelia Silk
Event Type Census
Event Year 1915
Event Place Perth Amboy, 3 ward, Middlesex, New Jersey, United States
Birth Date Jul 1886
Birthplace Russia
Charles I Silk M Hungary
Cecelia Silk F Russia
Laura Keahley F Denmark
if the latter is a servant or a boarder or wether either would be an indication of wealth or lack of it
by1930 Charles silk was a surgeon
-
In the 1925 NY state census, Charles & Cecelia Silk and Sadie Ratner are at 59 Elmont Ave., Port Chester, New York. Charles is a medical doctor, had been in the US for 37 years, and it says he was naturalized in New York City in 1896. Cecelia and Sadie had been in the US for 32 years, and Sadie was naturalized in NY city in 1917. Cecelia's occupation was housework, and Sadie was a horticulturist.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSCW-GTD
-
There is a Morris Ratner b1880 Russia aged 40 in 1920 Manhatten district 4
with a wife Dora + son David
but I dont know if he is ours as can't access the image
seems likely that he'd marry before 40 and name first son after his father
was David Ratner still alive in 1920 ?
Thanks for taking time to summarize shelly ..very helpful
-
No here's our Morris in
Home in 1920: Port Chester, Westchester, New York
Spouse's Name: Gussie S Ratner
Native Tongue: Hebrew
Able to Speak English: Yes
Industry: Dentist
Naturalization Status: Naturalized
Morrice Ratner 41
Gussie S Ratner 31
Elenor Ratner 2
Lena Fellman 43 - Russia- Sister - Widow
Matilda Fellman 16
-
I was given link to Morris grave http://tiny.cc/9eta9x s
There are graves for a Sadie died 1965 and david Ratner d1934 in same grave yard but birthdates are not given + i haven't yet worked out how to find if they are in the same plot
I wasn't expecting to spend all day on this side interest but have just discovered that Gussie's maiden name was Bloomberg which is a family name I was researching for a friend .ADDED BONUS
-
There are graves for a Sadie died 1965 and david Ratner d1934 in same grave yard but birthdates are not given + i haven't yet worked out how to find if they are in the same plot
RATNER, DAVID
Section: 2
Block: 10
Map:
Path: 13
Lot: 573
Line:
Society:
Grave: 4
===========
Last Name, First Name // Location // Date of Death
FELLMAN, LENA 2-10-13-573-2 12/28/1966
RATNER, SADIE 2-10-13-573-3 1/14/1965
RATNER, DAVID 2-10-13-573-4 12/13/1934
RATNER, MORRIS 2-10-13-573-6 9/23/1974
RATNER, AUGUSTA 2-10-13-573-7 3/7/1992
STAMM, ELEANOR 2-10-13-573-8 5/22/2003
-
Thanks so much RJ
also big thanks to BOO who sent me copies of original censuses which raised a couple more questions
Just wondered if Sadie + Matilda's profession in 1925 was actually something to do with clocks as spelt Horaculturist
Matilda's uncle david Fellman was a watchmaker !
Also in 1915 Lena Fellman was head of household in 17st Bronx aged 37 daughter Tillie was 12
she is listed with Brothers Morrise dentist aged 30
+ Samuel 26 and father Aaron aged 61 not working
I'm guessing Samuel is Ellis maybe sick already
Aaron must be David Ratner (could be middle name usage)
-
Ive just found a written record of the Rattners from Breman to New York in
1893
The names and dates mostly correspond
David RATTNER aged 43
Chaine? " 40 wife
Moses 11
Elia 9
Lube 20
Zivia 8
Sara 7
Moses became Morris
Elia Ellis
Zivia celia
Sara sara
They travelled midship with 4 pieces of baggage
Topic started re these Russian RATTNER family
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=807208.msg6662632#msg6662632