RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: rkive82 on Sunday 28 February 16 19:05 GMT (UK)
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William Jones died in Bridgend in February 1894 but lived most of his life in Lampeter (born c1841).
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"Something over two years ago Mr Jones left Lampeter for Bridgend. Mr Jones was for some time a member to the Lampeter Town Council. One of his brothers is vicar of Llanor, North Wales and another brother is vicar of Llanwrwg, Pembrokeshire. The body was conveyed by train to Lampeter on Monday evening. The funeral took place on Tuesday morning and was very largely attended. Numerous wreaths were sent by friends and relatives. The vicar officiated at the house and the Rev R. C. Jones at Brondeifi Unitarian Chapel, in the burial ground of which chapel the remains were interred. Much sympathy is expressed with his widow and children."
From the Cambrian News on 23rd February 1894
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Any photographs and information about William from a headstone or the records there would be much appreciated. I am particularly looking for his birth date.
Thanks very much
Richard PJ
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Only just seen your message. The only William Jones I can find recorded for Brondeifi fits your information.
William Jones, formerly of the Cambrian Shoe Factory, Lampeter, died at Bridgend, Glam, 15 Feb 1894 (54).
On the same stone there is a dedication to:-
Janie, eldest daughter of William and Anne Jones, died at Bridgend, 2 Dec 1891 (19).
I just checked... we exchanged some info before on the Cambrian Shoe Factory.
Couldn't find his birth cert, but can find his marriage cert.
William Jones was married in St Peters church, Lampeter, 1871, December 13th
To Anne Davies,
Both of full age
He bachelor, and she spinster
Both living in Lampeter at time of marriage
His occupation given as Boot manufacturer
His father John Jones, also Boot manufacturer
And her father David Davies, Inn Keeper.
The grave info came from the volume of Unitarian Grave inscriptions by E.L. and M.A. James, and the marriage info via Findmypast.
Best wishes
Jen (aka rebecca_riots)
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Thanks very much Jen.
1. I was wondering if I should have just posted in the general area as the two other lookup requests that I posted at the same time in other counties have yet to receive a reply.
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2. Is a subscription needed to see the Unitarian grave inscriptions? I would like to see the gravestones.
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3. I wonder why Janie and her father William were buried at Brondeifi when the family had a connection with St Peters Church in Lampeter?
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4. The GRO were unable to find a birth certificate for William and his twin brother John born in 1841.
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5. Anne Jones née Davies remarried a David Griffiths in Bridgend in 1897 I believe.
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Richard PJ
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Recently there was a glitch in Rootschat, unless I dreamt it ! I remember seeing a "website unobtainable" or similar notice, which said that access to Rootschat because of a fault or hack or something meant that it would be down for ages and ages, so I personally did not bother to look for ages. Thought it wouldn't be around for several months, but perhaps I misread or dreamt it.... this might account for people not responding. Personally I would stick to the counties sections, but make sure that the subject heading is specific... I notice people say things like "Help Please", so I never bother to look.
Perhaps William was Unitarian and his wife was not. Lampeter is part of the Black Spot after all.
Birth Cert... don't know. Probably the mother/parents didn't register the births. People were a bit sloppy still in 1840. There is a good page on when compulsory registration came in here:-
http://www.owenfamilyhistory.net/civilreg.html and it is later than one might have thought.
Where do you live? I go to Lampeter several times a week, but not at the mo to the Brondeifi area as the road is up (road works) and it is too cold to go wandering around. However, when Spring comes (she says hopefully) I could take a photo for you.
Jen
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Hello Jen.
A photo of the graves would be great if/when "Spring Has Sprung." Thanks.
I have just educated myself by googling "Black Spot" and the "Rebecca Riots." This gives me more understanding of the area.
Is a subscription needed to see the Unitarian grave inscriptions compiled by E.L. & M.A. James? Do you have a link please?
I live in Santa Rosa in Northern California, so I'm not able to physically visit sites of interest in Wales.
Thank you,
Richard PJ
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UPDATE: Burial records for William's twin brother, Rev. John Jones, give a date of birth as 19th April 1841. The GRO wasn't able to find birth records for the boys, so this is especially useful. I am hoping that records for William at Brodeifi will confirm this.
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Richard PJ
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Seen your message today. Rootschat are apparently now sending helpful emails to say a reply is on line. I am absolutely up to my eyebrows in helping our little tiny museum get ready for the annual opening on Monday next, with my input into a display of various items and history of a local parish. (this pm was actually in another Unitarian graveyard called Capel y Groes, not far from Lampeter)... will do some more research and try to answer you when things calm down.. if you haven't heard by Easter do remind me. Its Sul y Blodau this Sunday (Flower Sunday/known elsewhere as Palm Sunday) and we are trying to visit our family graves with flowers as remembrances.
Best wishes, Jen
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Forgot to say, the grave inscriptions by the James's are not online. The only place that has the complete set is the National Library in Aberystwyth. Let me know of any local names I can look up for you.
J
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Thanks very much Jen.
I appreciate that you're volunteering your time and expertise, so any time that you can get to it is fine.
If I think of any other local names, I'll let you know. Good luck with your Museum project.
Richard PJ :)
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Family search has Wm Jones b Lampeter 18/7/1842 parents Elinor & John
Wales Births and Baptisms, 1541-1907," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1TD-HL3 : accessed 25 March 2016), William Jones, 18 Jul 1841; citing LAMPETER,CARDIGAN,WALES, reference ; FHL microfilm 105,148.]Wales Births and Baptisms, 1541-1907," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1TD-HL3 : accessed 25 March 2016), William Jones, 18 Jul 1841; citing LAMPETER,CARDIGAN,WALES, reference ; FHL microfilm 105,148
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thanks petmas - reminded me, so had a good look around
FOUND the church baptism record for the twins... July 18th 1841, and the vicar has also noted the word TWINS in the margin of the register.
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Thank you.
I was really looking for the birth date as I do have the baptism record for the twins. The GRO could not find birth records for them which is unfortunate as it would also have given me Elinor's maiden name.
So I am still hoping that the grave and/or record at Brondeifi will give us the birth date. John's birth date is said to be 19th April 1841 and I would like to see that confirmed.
Thanks a lot.
Richard
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Right, I am with you. But it is going to be difficult finding him if the date of death unknown. I'll try, you never know your luck !
J
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Forgot to say, the births may not have been registered at all, it wasn't legally compulsory until 1874
J
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"Right, I am with you. But it is going to be difficult finding him if the date of death unknown. I'll try, you never know your luck !"
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We have the death dates for both twins:
"William Jones died in Bridgend on 15th February 1894."
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"John Jones died on 1st JUNE 1917 in Caewrs, Llanwnnog, Montgomeryshire, Wales."
Richard
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What was he doing in Caersws? Does he have a grave stone there?
(I know Caersws - I was born in the neighbourhood !)
Jen
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You can read all about the Rev John Jones here:
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742618.new;topicseen#new
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I have been getting help with John too.
Richard
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How does one "insert image" - I can find the code inserter above, but have failed to insert anything.
I'll email them to you, but thought it would be interesting for any contributors to the conversation to see one of them at least.
J
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Used to be on reply page click on "attachments & other options"- looks like it has gone although it works on other counties. Think copy and paste wil work though.
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Hi Jen, contacted the webmaster & it is now sorted so you can post pics. Seems photos can't be added in "Look up" section only the main boards
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@petmas I was just messing and searching for a solution... and lo and behold the additional whatnot appeared... I will try on a main board topic.. but doesnt want to work here apparently... (and I had reduced the size with Irfan View.) Does Cardiganshire not count as a main board I wonder? Anyway... MANY thanks, Diolch o galon
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Good heavens... image now appeared like magic... many thanks again... J
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It shows on the main boards but not the "look up request" board. The Mod moved the entire subject from one to t'other. Did you get to look for the stone as we are going to Lampeter on Friday and if fine I'll have a look , just hope there isn't hundreds of black slate with lettering then is engraved but not filled so almost illegible
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The grave of William Jones is the second on the left as you go up the path to the Chapel. The engraving is clearly visible. It was very wet yesterday when I went, and the grass looked slippery so I didnt risk falling. There is a car parking lot opposite the chapel, marked Capel Brondeifi.
(You can see the grave in the photo posted above somewhere - you can see the first single grave stone, and William's gravestone is between that and the two pillared graves.).
The actual boot factory was demolished, but was opposite the police station, below the Catholic church / and to the left of the Parish church St Peters. The grassy area is now called named after
St Germain Sur Moine (town link)
I have a photo of the grave stone closer up, but rootschat keeps telling me I have posted it before, which I haven't, but who knows! Anyway, have a good trip to Lampeter.
Jen
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OK, try changing the photo name and reposting it. If not I'll try on Friday
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View over the Dulas bridge towards Bridge Street, Baptist chapel (Capel Noddfa) on left of the road junction opposite the Farm Supplies shop. Near Coop. Rebecca and her daughters destroyed a toll-gate on the chapel side of bridge, exact whereabouts not known to me, it was not rebuilt. (1843)
View of chapel from the chapel carpark in an earlier message here.
The tombstone wording:-
William Jones, formerly of the Cambrian Shoe Factory, Lampeter, died at Bridgend, Glam, 15 Feb 1894, (54)
Janie, eldest daughter of William and Anne Jones, died at Bridgend, 2 Dec 1891 (19)
Phew.. thanks, got there in the end !
Jen
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better view of inscription - wasnt willing to risk walking on that slope with wet grass...
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Thank you so much Jen and Petmas.
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Jen has given the wording on the tombstone for William and his daughter Janie, so I am wondering if there is any more information to be found?
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Would there be more detail in the parish records? I am especially hoping for William's date of birth.
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If not, I shall wait a few days and then consider the topic completed.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Richard
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Just checked Freebmd. I think the twins (John and William) were possibly/probably born in the first quarter of Births Mar 1841 ie some time Jan, Feb, or March 1841.
- I searched for William Jones, from June quarter 1840, to Sept 1841 (they were baptised in July 1841) and this quarter is the only one that has both a William and a John Jones together.
Jones John Lampeter Volume 27 Page 48
Jones William Lampeter Volume 27 Page 48
check with Freebmd, and you can then send for a birth cert which should give you the day of birth (costs £9.25 or thereabouts including UK postage - presumably more postage cost to overseas) via https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp which I'm sure you know! Can't guarantee of course.
As far as Parish records are concerned, I know you have a record of the baptism in St Peters, Lampeter, but the registers of baptism do not give dates of birth.
Jen
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Hello Jen,
If you look at page 1 of this thread, you'll see what's been discussed. I don't want you spending time unnecessarily on this.
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The GRO told me that they could not find birth records for John and William in 1840 or 1841.
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Death records for twin brother John give his date of birth as 19th April 1841. I was just hoping for confirmation among the death records for William.
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So, I've tried other ways to get William's birth date without success.
Thanks
Richard
P.S. I get the GRO to send certs to my sister in England and her husband scans them for me. It works well.
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Finding this interesting. A number of my forebears are buried here.
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Hi Yasmina
What are their names and dates of death if you have them?
Greetings from a rather windy Lampeter
Jen
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I will have to look up but will happily do so.
Surname Davies.
My great grandparents. He worked as a master coachbuilder. Trained in siliian. Worked 10 years on the building of falcondale whilst living in pen y lan silian. Pen y lan no longer there.
Moved to market square Lampeter. Then to new York cwmann. Which he built. He also built treherbert.
Great grandad died around 1912.
I will come back to this.
Great gran Margaret Evans ,from llandysul, daughter of a blacksmith, worked as a "housekeeper "in silian, married my grandfather. Produced 7 sons and a daughter. Last son gloried in the name William septimus. He is buried with his mother, and his little daughter in brondeifi. On far side of cemetery opposite the large memorial are the small graves of great grandfather and her eldest son. There must have been a falling out. There are more.
Great gran a distant relative of frank Lloyd wright ,the architect ,in america.
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Yes jen, twas freezing outside co op Lampeter today. I live near pumpsaint.
See birth Lahore other countries. The son in law David Joshua Davies, was a cousin of my mother. Lived in cwm Ann. A very exotic story.
My grandfather James was born 1869 in silian. The family appear on 1871 census in silian. 1881 in Lampeter and thereafter in cwmann.
The children born prior to move to Lampeter are on baptismal records in silian. The must have become unitarian after the move.
James wife, Sarah Jenkins was a daughter of john Jenkins ,cart and horses ,rhydcymerau. A description of him appears in DL Williams an old farm house ...took 20 pages and DL had only planned a short piece on john Jenkins. Between pages 40 and 60.
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Dear Yasmin4
Just messaged you on another topic (Cwmann) - well well, what a coincidence, I had been gloomily looking at Hen Dy Ffarm, as my Welsh is medium to awful - and need lots of time to read with a large dictionary, but today in the uni library I noticed an ENGLISH translation and it is now sitting on my kitchen table. I will go and peruse it.
Jen
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You will enjoy meeting my Carmarthenshire great grandad. He was a character. His wife was a deaconess in rhydcymerau. Fits well with the pledge not.