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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: Ceeoh on Monday 29 February 16 15:02 GMT (UK)
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I am currently working on the Buckinghamshire Carr family and cannot find Fanny. Can anyone help.
William Carr born 1838 Lane End married Elizabeth Blackwell (born 1844) in Lane End 1862.
They had one daughter Elizabeth Ellen Carr born 15 February 1863 (date not confirmed)
Elizabeth (mother) died March quarter 1863 (childbirth related??)
William remarried to Fanny Blackwell in 1864. In 1871 gives Fanny gives her age as 39 (born 1831/2) and all subsequent census as a year younger born 1841/2.
I have been unable to find any birth registration for either Fanny Blackwell or Elizabeth Ellen Carr.
On various census Fanny's birth place is given as Marlow, West Wycombe and Wheeler End.
Elizabeth Ellen's birthplace 1871 is given as Marlow. The only record I have of her.
Fanny died Sept quarter 1916 reg Wycombe, age given as 75
Input would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Ceeoh
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Who does the marriage give as Fanny's father
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Sorry don't have that. Only have registration December quarter 1864 registered Wycombe, and subsequent census returns for William and Fanny Carr.
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1851 living Princes Risborough :-\
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKVC-ZZCS
1861 born Lane End -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7VZ-X57
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Possible baptism West Wycombe, parents Henry & Elizabeth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMB6-2YW
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I have been unable to find any birth registration for either Fanny Blackwell
If that is her in 1851 aged 19, she was born 1832, so before registration. Your only hope is if you can find her baptism.
Sorry, we crossed Rosie. Looks as if she knocked 10 years off her age!
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1841
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7Q2-GBJ
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Very many thanks. This certainly looks like Fanny. With a ten year age change - she lived to a good age then.
Have accessed the 51 and 61 census on FindMyPast - it's struggling to find the 41.
Many thanks Rosie and groom. Once again rootschatters have come up trumps.
Most appreciated
Ceeoh
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Much more than I could have hoped for.
1841 image Henry and Elizabeth (Fanny Blackwell) are living next door to the parents of William Carr's first wife Richard and Harriett (Elizabeth Blackwell).
Thank you
Ceeoh
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Have accessed the 51 and 61 census on FindMyPast - it's struggling to find the 41.
FindMyPast is struggling to find anything at the moment ::)
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Taken from BucksFHS - Holy Trinity, Lane End Parish Transcripts CD.
Baptism - 29 Jul 1838. William, born 2 July, son of John & Sophia CARR of Ditchfield, Labourer
Marriage - 23 Sep 1862. by Banns
William(x)CARR, aged 24, Bachelor of Lane End, Chairmaker son of John Carr, Bricklayer
Elisabeth BLACKWELL, aged 19, Spinster of Lane End, Lacemaker daughter of Richard Blackwell, Wheelwright. Witnesses - Thomas Fletcher & Sarah Blackwell.
There is only one baptism at Lane End to this couple. Place and date of baptism, are not proof of date and place of birth. And sometimes the christian are different, when registered.
15 Feb 1863 - Elizabeth Ellen, daughter of William & Elizabeth CARR, of Ditchfields, Occ. Chairmaker.
EDITED
Burial - 24 Jan 1863, Elizabeth CARR aged 19 of Ditchfield. (Wife of William, I think).??
Burial - 2 Oct 1880. John CARR aged 77, of Ditchfield.
Burial - 20 Oct 1884. Sophia CARR, aged 79 of High Wycombe.
Baptism -17 Mar 1844. Elizabeth, born 15 Feb daughter of Richard & Harriett BLACKWELL of Lane End, Carpenter.
Burial - 28 May 1870. Harriet BLACKWELL, aged 56 of Lane End.
Burial - 4 Aug 1896. Richard BLACKWELL, aged 76 of Lane End, grave in new part No 63.
Possibly, the registration of Elizabeth Ellen Carr could be different. So how about, Elizabeth Sophia Carr, registered j/f/m 1863. Wycombe district.
Her grandmother was Sophia Carr, if we are correct with what we have found..
Steve. :)
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Now here is where the confusion may lie. From BucksFHS - Holy Trinity, Lane End Transcripts.
Marriage - 25 Sep 1865. by Banns
William(x)CARR, aged Fa, Bachelor of Ditchfield, Sawyer son of George Carr, Sawyer.
Fanny(x)PLUMRIDGE, aged Fa, Spinster of Wheeler End, Lacemaker.
Witnesses - William Hancock & Mary Ann Carr.
Baptism - 2 Feb 1840. William born 28 Dec 1839 son of George & Eliza CARR of Park Lane, Sawyer.
Steve. :)
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Now here is where the confusion may lie.
Marriage - 25 Sep 1865. by Banns
William(x)CARR, aged Fa, Bachelor of Ditchfield, Sawyer son of George Carr, Sawyer.
Fanny(x)PLUMRIDGE, aged Fa, Spinster of Wheeler End, Lacemaker.
Witnesses - William Hancock & Mary Ann Carr.
For info. this looks to be the above couple on the following census
1871 RG10; Piece: 1405; Folio: 127; Page: 11
Ditchfield
William CARR 30 West Wycombe, Buckinghamshire occ Sawyer
Fanny 29 lace maker ‘’
John 6
Ann 4
Carry 1
Louisa Harrop 23
Sophia Harrop 31
1881 c RG11; Piece: 1466; Folio: 123; Page: 19
living Lane End Ditchfield
William & Fanny Carr have 5 more children David, Amos, Eliza, George & Kate
1891c RG12; Piece: 1140; Folio: 115; Page: 2
another child Gilbert age 8
1901c RG13; Piece: 1351; Folio: 37; Page: 10
Fanny Carr 60 widowed with son Gilbert age 18
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Hmmm, now here is an interesting burial @ Lane End.
25 Jan 1901. William CARR, aged 61 of Stone Asylum, & Lane End, grave in new part No 116.
I can't be sure which of the William Carr's this could be, even if he's either of them, but it's before the date of the 1901 census. ???
Stone Asylum records, do mostly exist at the Centre for Buckinghamshire Stuidies, but you will have to manually search them, or ask the CBS for a quote for looking at his records, and passing them to you.
Steve. :)
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From the 1861 census, John Carr c1806. Harley, Oxfordshire, is actually Hasley, or in fact, Great Haseley. His wife, Sophia Carr was born c1807. West Wycombe, Bucks.
From Familysearch, there is a marriage @ West Wycombe(St Lawrence), 7 Aug 1825. John Carr to Sophia Easdon. From the same source, Sophia Easden was baptized, 20 July 1806, to William & Charlotte Easden @ West Wycombe.
From OxFHS Great Haseley Transcripts.
John Carr was baptised, 26 Feb 1804 to Richard & Elizabeth Carr.
Richard Car(batchelor), married Elizabeth Parsler(spinster), 5 Feb 1795. Witness - John Parsler.
Steve. :)
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Thank you bucksboy and Ladyhawk.
Will compare your data with what I have and post later.
Regards
Ceeoh
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The only constant with this group seems to be William Carr 1838 was the son of John and Sophia E Carr nee Easden.
William marries Elizabeth Blackwell 1862
They have one daughter Elizabeth Ellen born 1863.
Elizabeth (Blackwell) Carr dies 1863.
1871 Census the child is with her father and stepmother Fanny (but Fanny who?)
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1871 census image Fanny's age is clearly shown as 39 no smudges or indistinct scribble.
1871 census the child's name is not clearly Elizabeth. But Ellen is clear.
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Reading all the data you have provided I would take all the following census returns 1881 to 1911 to be the William Carr who married Fanny Plumridge. The ages are consistent 1840 and 1841. This Fanny's last child would be born when Fanny was 42. This also is consistent with William's occupation as a sawyer following on from his father George. Plus in the latter census Fanny's place of birth is given as Wheeler End - where Fanny Plumridge was from.
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Fanny on the 1871 census (born May 1831)would have been 52 when the last child was born.
This leaves the question - where then are William and Fanny (whoever she may have been) after the 1871 census.
There is a marriage registered for William and either Mary Oxlade or Fanny Blackwell. December quarter 1864. 1871 we have William and Fanny (not Mary) and William's child.
To confuse the issue 1881 Census William Carr 44 (1837) a sawyer and Fanny Carr 49 (1832) are living Vine Terrace, Chipping Wycombe, Wycombe. With daughter Elizabeth age 18 -born 1863!!??
Have not collated the Richard Carr Elizabeth Parsler, John Carr Sophia Easden data yet.
Regards
Ceeoh
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If this is the correct William, Fanny and Elizabeth 1881, Elizabeth marries Hezekiah James in 1882 and in 1891 they are living in Sheffield.
Have not found this William and Fanny 1891.
Ceeoh
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If it was this registration, it may have occurred at the registry office, as I couldn't find the church, using BucksFHS, Church finder facility. So I am unable to check the parish regs for it.
If it was a registry office marriage, then the cert would have to be purchased to find out for sure.
William Carr.
1864.
O/N/D.
Wycombe
Buckinghamshire.
V - 3a
P - 704
I would suggest to you, that you contact BucksFHS, and ask for a search of their marriage database, for William Carr marriages, with a good spread of years. If a marriage did occur in a Registry Office, BucksFHS are unable to give answers, as it's only parish records that they have, not Registry Office marriages.
The two marriages I found for you, are of two different William Carr's. One with father as George Carr(Fanny Plumridge), the other with father as John Carr(Elizabeth Blackwell).
I also think, there is another William Carr, 3 in total, possibly 4, but not sure, as the places of birth vary so much.
It may also be an idea, to ask for a baptism search for William Carr, again with a sensible spread of years. But saying that, not all children were baptized, only registered.
These 2 searches(Marriage & Baptism), would cost you £2 in total, and results are received via email.
EDITED.
According to Family Search, Fanny Blackwell was baptized, 22 May 1831 @West Wycombe, to Henry & Elizabeth Blackwell. (Confirmed in 1841 census).
Now I ask, are Fanny Blackwell and Fanny Plumridge, one and the same. Did Fanny Blackwell, marry a Plumridge, and then marry William Carr. BUT, she was single in the marriage I found, in the name of Plumridge, as was William Carr, shown as single, and not widowed(either of them).
Maybe the 1864 cert will show more. ???
Steve. :)
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This is purely end of thumb but I suspect Fanny B and Fanny P are two different people because of the 1881 census - two Fanny wed to two William! Especially as one has an Elizabeth of the right age with them.
Many thanks for suggestions. Will see what I can arrange - accept credit card payment for such a small sum? Great that results will be e mailed.
Thank you rootschatters all for input - most appreciated.
Regards
Ceeoh
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To confuse the issue 1881 Census are living Vine Terrace, Chipping Wycombe, Wycombe
William Carr 44 (1837) a sawyer
Fanny Carr 49 (1832)
Elizabeth age 18 -born 1863!!??
1881 census Elizabeth has a middle initial of H possibly for (Helen/Ellen) :-\
1861 RG 9; Piece: 858; Folio: 111; Page: 11
Ditchfield
John Carr 55 occ Bricklayer
Sophia 54
WILLIAM 22 Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire occ Chair maker
Ellen 19
John 17
Charles 14
Ann 10
1871 RG10; Piece: 1405; Folio: 111; Page: 12;
William CARR 33 Marlow, Buckinghamshire occ Labourer
Fanny 39 Marlow, Buckinghamshire
Elizth Ellen 8 Marlow, Buckinghamshire
1881 RG11; Piece: 1463; Folio: 63; Page: 41
William CARR 44 Gt Marlow occ Sawyer
Fanny 49 West Wycombe
Eliz’th H 18 Gt Marlow dress maker
1882 Wycombe 3a 817
Hezekiah JAMES
female name on same page
Elizabeth Helen CARR
1891 RG12; Piece: 3822; Folio: 71; Page: 6 living Sheffield
Hezekiah JAMES occ Chair Manuf
Elizabeth 28 Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire
William CARR 52 occ dittoed as Chair Manfct.
Francis wife 59 West Wycombe
Possible death
1898 Sheffield vol 9c page 316
Frances CARR age 67 (1831)
1901 RG13; Piece: 4368; Folio: 166; Page: 33 living in Sheffield
Hezekiah JAMES 40 occ Furniture porter
Elizabeth E wife 38 Gt Marlow
Frank 8 Sheffield
William CARR father in law Wid. 63 Great Marlow occ labourer
Frank & John Baumber
not sure if this is the correct death for William due to age :-\
1910 Sheffield 9c 351
William CARR age 65
Latest census shows Elizabeth's middle name as Ellen
If the above Fanny was the Fanny Blackwell that married William Carr in 1864
this might be her on 1841c ,
just noticed that Rosie99 had already posted the link from familysearch for 1851 & 1861 census for Fanny Blackwell :)
1861 RG 9; Piece: 862; Folio: 6; Page: 6
Fanny Blackwell 29 Lane End, Buckinghamshire occ House servant
1851 HO107; Piece: 1720; Folio: 526; Page: 26
Fanny Blackwell 19 Lane End, Buckinghamshire servant
There are two Fanny Blackwell’s on 1841 c in Buckinghamshire
1841 HO107; Piece: 55 West Wycombe; E D 14; F3; P4
Fanney Blackwell age 10 - Henry & Elizabeth
1841 HO107; Piece: 45 Beaconsfield; E D 4; F11; P16;
Fanny Blackwell age 10 – William & Priscilla
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The Blackwell name, in addition to the Bucks=wycombe>chesham>chorleywood areas also cross over the border into Herts.
Blackwells were landowners into Sarratt/Chipperfield
Even more recent, the Blackwell Cafe in Chipperfield.
Just so you know . . . . .
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This is purely end of thumb but I suspect Fanny B and Fanny P are two different people because of the 1881 census - two Fanny wed to two William! Especially as one has an Elizabeth of the right age with them.
Many thanks for suggestions. Will see what I can arrange - accept credit card payment for such a small sum? Great that results will be e mailed.
Thank you rootschatters all for input - most appreciated.
Regards
Ceeoh
From Familysearch.
Elizabeth Helen Carr(aged 20), married Hezekiah James(aged 21). 6 Aug 1882 @ High Wycombe. Fathers are William Carr & Daniel James.
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Yes, they do accept small amounts with C/Card, and results may take a week or less, as it's run by volunteers.
I was clutching at straws, suggesting the origins of the two Fanny's, but would love to hear the end result. Please keep us informed with any outcome.
As a side note, if you have a lot of Buckinghamshire interests, On-line membership of BucksFHS is quite cheap(£6), and with the membership, you get an hour's free research at the Bucks archives. (I'm not touting for business, it's the fact they are a wonderful FH society, and run as a charity).
Regards, Steve. :)
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Hi,
Will digest all the extra information tomorrow - many thanks (late here now we are 2 hours ahead of U.K.)
As a matter of interest I was in Milton Keynes for 6 months last year but the Carr research had been on the back burner for more than four years. Oh if only I had realised - so near and yet so far!!
Ceeoh
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Many thanks all.
Have made some further enquiries and will definitely post what I find.
Regards
Ceeoh
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Sorry nothing to report yet. No response to query with Bucks FHS and only an automated response from Bucks registrars on 3 March.
Will wait a bit longer.
Ceeoh
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Good day.
Have heard from Beaconsfield Registrar. Was hoping they would be kind enough to just tell me who Fanny's father was but sadly they require me to buy the certificate for £10 + £1.50 postage. That converts to R251 - very expensive for me.
Hopefully I may yet hear from Bucks FHS.
If the relationship between William and my husband's Carr connection had been close I may have been tempted, but if I have worked it out correctly my husband's great great grandfather and William were brothers.
A couple of £ to Bucks FHS - not a problem - would like to solve the puzzle.
More when I hear something.
Many thanks for all help,
Regards
Ceeoh
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Delighted to say I have received an e mail from Bucks CC today confirming that Fanny Blackwell's father was Henry Blackwell (marriage certificate).
Many thanks to all who contributed to my Carr research.
Regards
Ceeoh