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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: jenc on Saturday 12 March 16 13:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Saturday 12 March 16 13:20 GMT (UK)
Hi folks
trying to find out any information on Agnes Lillico who was born c.1816 in Ancrum.
She married George Smail who was also born in Ancrum and was a blacksmith.  I found them on the 1841 and 1851 census residing in Denholm with their children.  I know she died sometime between 1851 and 1861 as George remarried, his second wife was Helen Turnbull.
I've tried to find a death for Agnes on OPR and the Statutory Register with no luck.  Any help would be most appreciated.
Jen
Title: Re: AGNES LILLICO, WHEN DID SHE DIE?
Post by: ev on Saturday 12 March 16 13:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Jen ,

Looking at the 1861 Census and birth of a son to George and Helen it looks likely that Agnes Lillico died before 1855 -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ1L-9XV



ev
Title: Re: AGNES LILLICO, WHEN DID SHE DIE?
Post by: Iandj on Saturday 12 March 16 18:28 GMT (UK)
Borders Family History Society have CDs of monumental inscriptions (MIs) for Cavers, Denholm and Ancrum and one of these might well include Agnes Lillico.

Borders FHS are at: www.bordersfhs.org.uk

Ian
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Sunday 13 March 16 11:58 GMT (UK)
Thanks Ev and Ian.
Found George and his new wife Helen Turnbull on the 1861 census at Leyden Road, Cavers.
He is aged 50, she is 30 and born in Jedburgh with their new family. Robert 5, James 4 and Mary 2, also step daughter Janet Brown 12 born Jedburgh, obviously the daughter of Helen.  Just trying to gather as much info as I can.
I will try to find Agnes on the monumental inscriptions for Cavers, seems the only way to find the poor lass!
Many thanks from Jen
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 13 March 16 20:46 GMT (UK)
Jen

Denholm Cemetery details here www.denholmvillage.co.uk/history.html

Remember though that not all gravestones will have survived over time and there may be no record of where Agnes was buried  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Monday 14 March 16 11:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Monica
My pc won't let me download the info from that link for some reason....think i'm destined never to find out about poor Agnes :'(  oh well, we tried.
Regards Jen
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: Iandj on Monday 14 March 16 21:05 GMT (UK)
I looked at that Denholm link myself, Jen, because I was curious - a more distant Lillico married into my Turnbull line about 200 years earlier, though I don't know if they were related. Denholm isn't showing any Lillico people at all and the only Smail is Margaret Smail, who died at Teviotbank in 1894. It is possible that Agnes was buried elsewhere, I suppose.

George's second wife, Helen Turnbull, died in 1907 at the District Asylum in Melrose, by the way. Her usual address was Minto.

Ian
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Tuesday 15 March 16 18:34 GMT (UK)
Aw thanks for that Ian....it is a small world at the end of the day....Lillico and Turnbull families combined all those years ago.
Grateful for the info on Helen Turnbulls death in 1907 too.   I always think it's wonderful when we set out to trace our family trees and we see name upon name going back through the years, then for some reason or another the names turn into people who have lived and died and their genes carry on through us.  They are no longer just names then but seem known to us somehow, we get to know them and how they lived.  Makes this search so worthwhile....thanks again
Jen
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: M Carter on Monday 21 March 16 16:39 GMT (UK)
Agnes Lillico is buried in Cavers Churchyard died 1851 aged 37.   Her name is the only one on a rather large headstone.
 M Carter
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 21 March 16 19:11 GMT (UK)
Wow, that is great news for Jen, M Carter  :)

Jen, your perseverance has been rewarded!

Monica

Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Monday 21 March 16 19:19 GMT (UK)
Big thanks for that info..hope that Agnes isn't resting alone there.... :'(need to do a bit more research on that subject..but seems so sad that she is the only one named on the heastone...did George Smail commission the stonemason for his name and their children to be added as and when?...but then he married Helen Turnbull and went on to have another family....he died in Galashiels in 1883 still married to Helen.....
George Smail and Agnes Lillico's daughter Margaret born in 1839 went on to marry Anthony Dodds in Edinburgh in 1862.  I've researched their family down to their son Anthony Dodds who married Maggie Watson in Kirkcaldy Fife in 1891 then down through the line to Dundee. Again just feel so sad that Agnes Lillico is resting so far from her descendants in Dundee and thereabouts and the fact that we don't know who her parents were!  Oh well, at least she is known now to her descendants and that's what it's all about really.
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Monday 21 March 16 19:20 GMT (UK)
thanks also to Monica for your help :)
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: t1522y on Wednesday 24 May 17 23:11 BST (UK)
I have a photo of Anges Lillico's headstone. It reads" In memory of Agnes Lillico wife of George Smail Denholm who died June 1851 aged 37 years." I am a descendant of George and his second wife Helen Turnbull.

Tom Smail
Montana, USA
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Tuesday 30 May 17 15:37 BST (UK)
Hi Tom
Thank you for posting these photos.  It looks a lovely peaceful place to rest
Jen
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: t1522y on Tuesday 30 May 17 16:14 BST (UK)
Hi Jen,
Do you have any information about who her parents are? Do you know who George's parents were? I have some information about who her parents may be but I haven't been able to make a positive connection. George's parents have been eluding me since I started searching many year ago. I believe their son Thomas was an apprentice blacksmith for George and eventually married and moved to England. Their son John may have emigrated to Canada. I have the same info on Margaret that you do. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Are you a descendant of George and Agnes? We may be third or fourth cousins. Did you ever do Ancestry DNA?

Tom
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Tuesday 30 May 17 17:04 BST (UK)
Hi Tom
I will need to have a wee look into my research on the family.  The connection is through my daughter's partner Graham Laing who is a descendant of the Smail family.  He asked me to trace his tree a while back as I have been able to get my own family tree back through many generations, all mostly Scottish.  I have never been on Ancestry....mainly Genes Reunited and Scotlandspeople.....will be in touch when I manage to find the details.
Cheers from Scotland
Jen
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: t1522y on Tuesday 30 May 17 17:27 BST (UK)
Thanks Jen. I've only been able to trace my family back to George. My grandmother was a Thompson from Stevenson and I've had better luck tracing her family back several generations..I use Scotlandspeople quite often.

Tom
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 30 May 17 21:48 BST (UK)
Hi Tom

Have you checked George's death cert to try to help you work further back on his line? Some family trees have his death as being on 27 FEB 1883 Galashiels Selkirkshire. George shows in Selkirkshire in 1881.

Monica
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 30 May 17 22:05 BST (UK)
Whilst I can't see an entry for Agnes in the Parish Registers, there is a couple having children in the right areas at the right time, a William Lillico and a Margaret Nic(h)ol. In 1812 for example there was a son Adam born in Cavers.

From Family Search, a summary of entries for them www.rootschat.com/links/01k6w/

A possibility really without anything more conclusive to help for now.

Monica
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: t1522y on Tuesday 30 May 17 22:52 BST (UK)
His death certificate does list his parents as Robert Smail and his mother as Helen Kerr. I can't find any other evidence to corroborate this. I usually like a second fact to confirm relationships.  Very easy to misidentify individuals when very few sources are available. I've made a few.

Thanks,
Tom
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: jenc on Wednesday 31 May 17 12:02 BST (UK)
Like you I have the parents of George Smail from his death certificate of 1883 in Galashiels as Robert Smail (master blacksmith) and Helen Kerr.
Can't find a marriage for them though.
1841 and 1851 census show George and his first wife Agnes Lillico at Cavers.
 Their children were JOHN b. 1835, Roxburgh, MARGARET 1837 Eckford, GEORGE 1839 Caver. TOM 1845 Roxburgh and JANE 1848 Caver
I have sons GEORGE (1839) and TOM (1845) both blacksmiths and both moving south to England where George had 7 children in Kent and Tom had 12.
Likewise I have their brother John (1835) possibly moving to Canada and dying in Saskatchewan in 1919.
1861 census Denholm Cavers shows George aged 50 and his second wife Helen Turnbull aged 30 with children Robert 5, James 4, and Mary 2.  They later had Alex 1861, Archie 1863, Helen 1864 and Andrew 1866.
Have been stuck on Agnes Lillico, though Monica might have pointed us in the right direction with her possible parents being William Lillico and Margaret Nicholl.
Cheers
Jen

Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: t1522y on Wednesday 31 May 17 13:18 BST (UK)
Hi Jen,
George's children Robert and Mary died  young adults (late teens or twenty's). James is my great grandfather(moved to Saskatchewan), Alex remained in Scotland, Archie went to England, Helen married Hector Johnstone and homesteaded in Saskatchewan, and Andrew ended up in Australia.

I have some information about who Agnes's parents may be, but I have to go through my files and find it. I can't positively tie Agnes to them but the evidence is compelling. It may be a couple of days before I get everything together.

Where in Scotland do you live? 
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: t1522y on Thursday 01 June 17 20:12 BST (UK)
Hi Jen,

If you will send me your email address I can send Lillico information as an attachment. It's a copy of what my researcher found when searching for George's parents. Two pages. My email is tas1@nemont.net.

Tom
Title: Re: Agnes LILLICO, when did she die?
Post by: stubbornsearcher on Friday 03 August 18 22:50 BST (UK)
Hi, I have some information that may be of use to you. The following information is understood to be on a graveyard headstone, (possibly in Cavers, Roxburghshire).

"In memory of Agnes Lillico wife of George Smail Denholm who died June 1851 aged 37 years"

I received this information, plus a photograph of the headstone from a previously unknown relative of mine. Unfortunately the writing on the photograph is not clear, and should be confirmed, but I have not reason to doubt that the information is correct.

Hope it is of some help to you.