RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: John Johnston on Wednesday 16 March 16 01:09 GMT (UK)
-
Hi Dublin folk,
I have only recently discovered that the cousin of my Scottish grandmother, Mary Parker Cundill, died in Dublin in 1894:
Death notice for Mary in Dublin Daily Express, 12 July 1894:
MILLER -- July 9, at Cork street Hospital, Mary Cundill, aged 36, the beloved wife of David Miller, Jewel-case maker, late of 18 Raymond street, South Circular road, deeply regretted by a sorrowing family. Funeral from Hospital at 9 30 this (Thursday) morning for Mount Jerome.
Notes: Cause of death was Typhoid Fever.
1901 Irish Census shows:
27 Vernon Street, Wood Quay, St. Peter's Parish, Dublin
Wilson Race, Head of Family, Church of England, Read & Write, 31, M, Jeweller's Shop Assist., Married, England
Esther Race, wife, Church of England, Read & Write, 32, F, Married, England
Edward Race, son, Church of Ireland, 6, M, Scholar, Not married, Dublin
Florence Race, daughter, Church of Ireland, 5, F, Scholar, Not married, Dublin
Ethel Race, daughter, Church of Ireland, 4, F, Scholar, Not married, Dublin
David Miller, Boarder, Presbyterian, Read and Write, 41, M, Jewel Case Maker, Widower, Scotland
William G. Simmonds, Boarder, Church of England, 25, M, Clock Maker, Not married, England.
Notes: David Miller died in 1918, in London.
1901 Irish Census
Cottage Home for Little Children, Tivoli Road, Kingstown, Dublin
Included in 47 children are:
Marjory Miller aged 7, Inmate, birth place not known (was actually Dublin)
Edith Miller, aged 12, Inmate, birth place not known (was actually London)
Notes: Confirmed in the Cottage Home records that these are sisters.
Sadly, Marjory MILLER died while employed at the Cottage Home in 1917
but Edith Mary MILLER married James Alexander CAIN, School Board Officer, on 15 July 1914 at St Paul's Church, Dublin (Church of Ireland).
I would be grateful for any help in tracing this couple and finding descendants to bring closure to this sad story.
Thanks,
John
-
Hi
Did you check out that marriage in St Paul's in 1914, to see whether James Alexander Cain's father is named or if any children born to this couple were later baptised in that parish. Also, the record will probably show where James was living when he married.
Cheers
-
Hi LH,
Thanks for your reply. Since starting this thread, I have since found that James Alexander Cain died in 1933, in Greenock, Scotland.
For your information:
Marriage Record
1914 Marriage solemnised at St Paul's Church in the Parish of St Paul in the City of Dublin
No. 37
When Married: July 15 1914
Name and Surname: James Alexander Cain
Age: full
Condition: Bachelor
Rank or Profession: School Board Officer
Residence at the Time of Marriage: 35 Lisle Street, Greenock, Scotland
Father's Name and Surname: William Robert Cain
Rank or Profession of Father: Prison Warder
Name and Surname: Edith Mary Miller
Age: full
Condition: Spinster
Rank or Profession: blank
Residence at the Time of Marriage: 26 Murtagh Road, Arbour Hill
Father's Name and Surname: David Miller
Rank or Profession of Father: Jewel Case Maker
Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of Ireland / licence by me, E. J. Young
This Marriage was solemnised between us, Jas. A. Cain, Edith M. Miller, in the Presence of us, Marjorie Miller, Robt. J. Blythe.
Notes: Witness Marjorie Miller was the sister of Edith.
It seems that James and Edith went to live in Scotland after their marriage.
1911 Scottish Census
35 Lyle Street, Greenock, Renfrewshire
Mrs. Mary Cain, Head, 66, Widow, Ireland
Margaret Cain, daur, 38, Single, Shop Assistant, Grocery, worker, Ireland
Mary Ann Cain, daur, 35, Single, At Home, Ireland
James A. Cain, son, 28, Single, Clerk, Sugar Refinery, Worker, Ireland
Rebecca Cain, daur, 25, Single, Shop Assistant, Grocery, Worker, Greenock, Renfrewshire
James's occupation at time of marriage in 1914, was School Board Officer.
(Marriage Certificate has his address as 35 "Lisle" Street, Greenock, Scotland)
1915, 1920, and 1925 Scottish Valuation Rolls have James A. Cain, Tenant, 37 West Stewart Street, Greenock.
1930 Valuation rolls have James A. Cain, Tenant, 27 Columba Street, Greenock
James Alexander William Cain (sic), aged 50, died 12 January 1933 at his home 27 Columba Street, Greenock and his occupation at that time, was School Attendance Officer.
Informant on death certificate was brother-in-law Peter Watson who had married James's sister Margaret in 1915. His address was 42 Wellington Street, Greenock.
Certificate states "Married to Edith Miller" so presumably Edith was alive then.
A search in Scottish records did not show a death for Edith so she may have moved away from Scotland, back to Ireland or to England?
Thanks,
John
-
Hi LH again,
It occurred to me that Edith Cain (nee Miller) may have married again and a search in Scottish records produced the following:
Marriage 644/23 00301
29 January 1934 15 Coldingham Avenue, Glasgow After Banns According to the Forms of the Church of Scotland
George Ringland, Storekeeper, Post Office Telegraph Department (Widower) Age 57, Johnstown Cottage, Ballyfermot, Chapelizod, Irish Free State
Edith Mary Miller or Cain (Widow) Age 45, 32 Hawley Road, Falkirk
Thomas Ringland, Farmer (deceased) & Ann Ringland m/s Jelly (deceased)
David Miller, Jewel Case Maker (deceased) & Mary Miller m/s Cundill (deceased)
William Walls, Minister of Yoker Church of Scotland
Vincent Armstrong, 2327 Dumbarton Rd., Yoker. Witness
Annie Armstrong, 2327 Dumbarton Rd., Yoker. Witness
31 January 1934, at Glasgow W. L. Young, Assistant Registrar.
It was back then to the Irish records to look for the Ringland family:
1901 Irish Census
Woodstock Road, Ormeau, Down
Annie Ringland, Head, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 52, F, Housewife, Married, Co. Down
Catherine Ringland, Daughter, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 19, F, Shop assistant Provisions, Not married, Co. Down
Andrew Ringland, Son, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 17, M, boiler Maker, Not married, Co. Down
George Ringland, Son, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 25, M, Telegraph Operater, Married, Co. Down
Dinna Ringland, Daughter, Presbyterian, Read & Write, 24, F, Housewife, Married, Belfast
Herbert Ringland, Grandson, Presbyterian, 6mths, Belfast
Notes: Dinna Ringland, Daughter, is actually Diana Ringland, Daughter-in-law.
1911 Irish Census
Murtagh Road, Arran Quay, Dublin
George Ringland, Head of Family, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 35, Storeman 3rd Class Stores Dept., GPO, Married, Co. Down
Diana Ringland, Wife, Church of Ireland, 34, Married, Married 12 years, 4 children born, 4 still alive, Co. Antrim
Herbert Ringland, Son, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 11, Single, Co. Antrim
Clara Ringland, Daughter, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 10, Single, Co. Down
Ann Ringland, Daughter, Church of Ireland, Read & Write, 8, Single, Co. Antrim
Aileen Elizabeth Ringland, Daughter, Church of Ireland, Cannot Read, 2, Co. Dublin
It seems that Diana Ringland died in Jan-Mar., 1933, Dublin South, certificate not yet sighted.
That's as far as I've got. Possibly George Ringland and Edith Mary Miller or Cain or Ringland died in Ireland.
John
-
It seems that Diana Ringland died in Jan-Mar., 1933, Dublin South, certificate not yet sighted.
No.6104
Erected by | GEORGE RINGLAND | In | Loving Memory | of | his wife | DIANA
RINGLAND | died 18th January 1933 | and their children | HERBERT | died 21st
May 1922 | HELEN | died 27th August 1929 | ANNIE | died 16th August 1933 |
"Peace Perfect Peace"
www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/1headstones/mt-jerome41.txt
The London Gazette, 3 May 1910
Post Office: Storeman in the Stores Department, Dublin, George Ringland.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28362/page/3083/data.pdf
Ringland, George of Johnstown Lodge Ballyfermot Chapelizod county Dublin and of Bonny Blink Lisdoonan Saintfield county Down retired store keeper died 12 December 1964 at latter place Probate Belfast 29 March to Edith Mary Ringland the widow. Effects £2092.
www.proni.gov.uk
-
Herbert Ringland mothers name Jackson
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/7c106c1445952
-
Birth record for Henry ringland
Herbert Ringland Date of Birth: 30-Sep-1900
Registration Date: 18-Oct-1900
Address: 31 Conduit Street Parish/District: URBAN 6 CIVIL, BELFAST
Gender: Male County Co. Down
Denomination: Civil Parish / District
Father: George Ringland Mother: Diana Jackson
Occupation: Labourer
Sponsor 1 /Margaret Jane Johnston
annclare
-
Hi aghadowey, dathai, and annclare,
Thank you very much for your valuable pieces of information concerning the Ringland family, very much appreciated.
I note that the transcription of the Ringland gravestone inscription in Mount Jerome Cemetery has "HELEN" but I think that should be "AILEEN".
I guess that Edith Mary Ringland's death record, some time after 1964, is too recent to be accessed. If there is any way I can find this please let me know.
Thank you again,
John
-
maybe here
http://www.mountjerome.ie/?content=genealogy
-
Thank you for the link, dathai. You may well be right.
Kind Regards,
John
-
Hello John Johnston.
I am new on RootsChat and new on MyHeritage, and by chance came over this posting. I live in Norway and my mother came from Falkink, Scotland. Her name was Edith Miller Cain, named after Edith Mary Miller above. Edith Mary Miller was married to my mother's uncle James Alexander Cain, and after his death she married George Ringland, whom for my mother alwas was "uncle George". All my life I heard of "aunt Edie", but never met her. I do not know very much of my mother's ancestors, as her parents died early. Unfortunately I do not know when Edith Mary Miller died, but it must have been around 1975. She stayed with relatives in Falkirk for a while, but moved back to Ireland, where she died. I think she lived in Wicklow. My mother and I went there once to find people that knew her. She and George Ringland had no children. Now I am searching for my grandfather's three sisters that are all in your paper, but so far I have not found anything. My grandfather was William Robert Cain, and there are so many persons with that name around (!) He died in 1940, so I never met him. But I am learning and hope for the best!
-
Hello Elks,
Thank you for getting in touch. I have some more information for you.
Edith Mary Miller died 5 Mar 1983, Co. Down, Ireland and is buried in Saintfield Parish Churchyard, Co. Down. Husband George Ringland is not mentioned on headstone so he was most likely buried in Ringland family grave in Mount Jerome Cemetery, Dublin.
I have these probate details:
Ringland, George of Johnstown Lodge Ballyfermot Chapelizod county Dublin and of Bonny Blink Lisdoonan Saintfield county Down retired store keeper died 12 December 1964 at latter place. Probate Belfast 29 March to Edith Mary Ringland the widow. Effects £2092.
Alongside Edith's grave in Saintfield Parish Churchyard, Co. Down is a stone with:
Agnes Nora NAPIER 23 Aug. 1921 - 7 March 1979
and her sister
Margaret (Margery) HARPER 20 Nov. 1922 - 28 July 1996 Are these related?
I discovered that James Alexander Cain and Edith Mary Miller had a daughter:
Marjory Mary Trueman Cain, born 20 May 1915, 26 Murtagh Road, North Dublin but I haven't been able to find more about her. Can you help?
Best wishes,
John
-
interesting
Marjory's third name is Trueman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01379/1567477.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Murtagh_Road/43947/
same man is there in 1915
http://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/search_new.php?searchtype=street&year=1915&address01=MURTAGH%20ROAD
-
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Guinness_Trust_Buildings/1346834/
wife's name appears to be Elizabeth Halloran
-
Hi dathai,
Thanks for your interest. Here is what I have found on the Trueman name:
1-William Robert Cain d. After 1885 Before 1911
+Mary Trueman b. Abt 1845, Ireland, d. 1914, Greenock, Renfrewshire
|--2-Magaret Cain b. Abt 1873, Ireland
| +Peter Watson m. 1915, Greenock, Renfrewshire
|--2-Mary Ann Cain b. Abt 1876, Ireland
|--2-James Alexander Cain b. Abt 1882, Ireland, d. 12 Jan 1933, 27 Columba
| Street, Greenock, Renfrewshire
| +Edith Mary Miller b. 27 Jan 1888, 22 Rodney St, Islington, c. 6 May 1888,
| St Silas, Pentonville, Islington, m. 15 Jul 1914, St Paul's Church,
| Dublin, d. 5 Mar 1983, Co. Down, Ireland, bur. Saintfield Parish
| Churchyard, Co. Down, par. David Dughie Stevenson Miller and Mary Parker Cu
| ndill
| |--3-Marjory Mary Trueman Cain b. 20 May 1915, 26 Murtagh Road, North Dublin
|--2-Rebecca Cain b. Abt 1886, Renfrewshire
(There was a comma in the wrong place in my previous message.)
Regards,
John
-
Interesting news. Mary Cain (born Trueman) in 1845 was my great grandmother. Thanks also for more information about Edith Mary Miller (Cain/Ringland). You had found out that she and James Alexander Cain had a daughter, called Marjorie. I just checked with my Scottish cousin, and we both think that this daughter died as a little girl, around 4 years old. We have never heard about a grownup daughter, and that was why my mother was named after her "aunt Edie" when she was born in 1920, By that time I suppose little Marjorie was already dead. Marjorie was of course named after Edith's sister who died young - and after grandmother Mary Trueman.
The only thing I find very strange is why Edith Mary Miller (Cain/Ringland) is buried in county Down. As far as we know, she stayed in a home the last years of her life, but I would have thought that would be around or in Dublin or Wicklow.
Elks
-
Hello again Elks,
That's sad news about wee Marjorie Mary Trueman Cain dying so young. Her mother's family had more than their share of family tragedies. Would Marjorie have died in Ireland or Scotland?
Re Edith Mary Miller's grave, note that her second husband George Ringland was living at Bonny Blink Lisdoonan Saintfield County Down at time of his death and that is probably where Edith died.
John
-
Since my last message, I checked both Irish and Scottish death indices and found that sadly, Marjorie Mary Trueman Cain died in Scotland (Greenock West, in 1917, aged I year, 564/2 238).
I have not seen the death certificate.
John
-
Hello John,
Thanks again! I see that this kind of research reveals lots of family tragedies, early deaths etc. Little Marjorie, obviously named after her aunt Marjory, died the same year as her aunt, meaning that Edith Mary Miller Cain lost both her daughter and her sister in 1917!
Thanks also for the explanation about the burial place of Edith Mary Miller Cain/Ringland. These families seem to have moved back and forth between Ireland and Scotland, and is not always easy to keep track of.
Thanks also to dathai for links to sertificates etc.
Best wishes
elks