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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: lucymags on Friday 18 March 16 11:43 GMT (UK)
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I've been chasing the female line up this branch (most of them Sarahs!), but seem to be stumped with this Frances' maiden name.
The baptism record of their child, Sarah, at Harbury in 1739 is here: "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMFF-LWP : accessed 18 March 2016), Frances in entry for Sarah Mumford, 02 Dec 1739; citing HARBURY,WARWICK,ENGLAND, reference ; FHL microfilm 554,797.
- but the marriage record has been transcribed incorrectly as "John Munford" and "Sarah Harbury", which you can see if you look closely (record only available when logged in - free; bottom left page): "England, Warwickshire Parish Registers, 1535-1984," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VHXZ-T7N : accessed 18 March 2016), John Munford and Frances Harbury, 16 Nov 1738, Marriage; citing Ladbrooke, Warwickshire, England, Record Office, Warwick; FHL microfilm 549,656.
- have also attached a screenshot of the above.
Wondering if anyone has better eyes than I have, or any other access to these records which might help with her surname? ???
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Looks a bit like Haubert / Haubrit ? Why not search the Ladbroke registers backwards to see if you can find a baptism for Frances with surname beginning H? John Mumford's baptism is shown in Ladbroke so hopefully Frances' will be there. Its a start!
Shirl
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Thanks for that, Shirl. I have tried looking for variations like that on FamilySearch but have come up with nothing in England so far - although there are some Frances Hauberts in the US, but of course none as early as 1720... And now I see some in Germany, hmmm...
Unfortunately I don't have direct access to Ladbroke registers - have to rely on what I can find on FamilySearch.
Mel.
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Hi
Anc****y has transcribed the same record as
16 nov 1738 at Ladbroke
John Mumford and 'James' Haubret
Only other close sounding name in the Harbury records on Anc****y
Anna Harbert
baptised 12 Jan 1705 died 17 Jul 1713
Father Thomas
Jay
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I think Jay is probably right that the name is Harbert as there are no Hauberts anywhere that I can see.
The NBI is usually a good place to look for odd names & this is what there is for Harbert in Warks.
11 Sep 1662 John HARBERT/Brailes, St George
28 Sep 1703 Richard HARBERT/Brailes, St George
11 Oct 1710 Anne HARBERT/Brailes, St George
21 Sep 1716 William HARBERT/Brailes, St George
17 Mar 1717 John HARBERT/Brailes, St George
15 Oct 1726 William HARBERT/Brailes, St George
25 Nov 1726 Anne HARBERT/Brailes, St George
2 May 1728 John HARBERT Brailes, St George
25 Sep 1796 Hannah HARBERT/Coventry, St Michael
14 Mar 1780 William HARBERT/Fenny Compton,
10 Jul 1784 Sarah HARBERT?Fenny Compton,
5 Jun 1791 Sarah HARBERT?Fenny Compton,
17 Jan 1807 Mary Reading HARBERT/Fenny Compton,
13 Dec 1704 Henry HARBERT/Harbury, All Saints
13 Feb 1706 Samuel HARBERT/Harbury, All Saints
29 Mar 1709 Dorcas HARBERT/Harbury, All Saints
6 Mar 1710 Mary HARBERT Harbury, All Saints
31 Aug 1741 Mary HARBERT/Harbury, All Saints
29 Apr 1820 William HARBERT/33/Ladbroke, All Saints
15 Aug 1787 Hannah HARBERT/Monks Kirby, St Edith
16 Jul 1793 Joseph HARBERT/Monks Kirby, St Edith
23 May 1746 Hannah HARBERT/Tredington, St Gregory
17 May 1749 Hannah HARBERT/Tredington, St Gregory
24 Jun 1750 John HARBERT/Tredington, St Gregory
4 Jul 1753 Richard HARBERT/Tredington, St Gregory
17 Apr 1841 John HARBERT/68/Tysoe, St Mary
They all seem to be in the same area of South Warks.
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16 nov 1738 at Ladbroke
John Mumford and 'James' Haubret
Ha ha - I didn't think they allowed gay marriage back in those days!
I think Jay is probably right that the name is Harbert as there are no Hauberts anywhere that I can see.
The NBI is usually a good place to look for odd names & this is what there is for Harbert in Warks.
Thanks both of you - that is very helpful, as I can now see a lot of Harbert christenings on FamilySearch, many in Leamington, with a cluster around Harbury and Lighthorne - so all pretty close. I'm sure you must be right. There is a father Gulielmi Harbert, who sounds foreign... so I will trawl through these records and see if I can find a likely match for "Frances Harbury/James Haubret"!
(It could be tomorrow Oz time - it's getting late down here. :) )
Mel
[Edit: p.s. Google just revealed to me (including one source from another thread on this site) that Gulielmi is of course a Latin form of William. I should have guessed. Never did Latin but it's not a million miles away from the French Guillaume. Mind you the offspring names such as Elizabetha, Margaretta, Dorcas, etc. are a bit unusual too - and also one branch of the family using "ae" endings, as is Thomae...]
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Unfortunately none of the Harberts match strongly enough to be convincing. The first name (Frances) must be correct, as it is mentioned on the children's baptisms, but the only Frances Harbert was born in Berkshire and that, combined with the fact that the spelling really looks like "Haub..t" is enough to dissaude me from this one. So I guess this will just have to go on the back-burner for now. (Perhaps they eloped and she deliberately changed her name?)
:-\
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I'm reviving this thread because I have opened enquiries with the Warwickshire County Council archives, who have made a few other suggestions which I'll be exploring, but also because I came across a record which I cannot access and wondering if someone else might?
The name is Frances Aubert, baptised in Knowle, Warwicks. in 1710. (Although this is some distance away, the timing is about right and there's at least a faint possibility there's a connection.)
[Edit: the record is on F...M.P... and also on A....... - Births, marriages and Deaths.]
[Later edit: I have found the record transcription on FamilySearch here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5G3-4ZR - so this is most likely as much as the other sources give. This takes me to a few other records via Thomas (as suspected, a French connection), which I'll follow up further tomorrow. So this probably concludes this part of my enquiry for now. It's going to be hard to establish a connection.]
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Having continued up the line finding connections to Frances Aubert's parents and siblings, her mother appears to have been a Mary Terrey or (more likely) Terry. I have found various records about her (including a possible death record, surname still Terry), but can anyone tell me if this Mary Aubert is close to the same time period, please?
Warwickshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1535-1812
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Name: Mary W Aubert
Warwickshire, England
I cannot seem to find a record for this one on FamilySearch.
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It's a burial at Knowle, 29 August 1707
Mary w of Henry Aubert
as in wife I should think
Image is available on FamilySearch if logged in (you need to register or be registered)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6XMQ-X1H?i=33&cc=1462403&cat=269102
On the next image
1710
Frances D of Tho: Aubert Bapt Aprill 30th
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Ah, great, thanks for that Jon. (I can see it now, but couldn't find it via the search - not indexed in FS, it seems.)
The wrong Mary, unfortunately. :( But at least it rules her out.
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Hmmm, actually now that I am looking more closely at that sequence of records, jon, there are some of interest, if a little confusing. ???
Thomas Aubert and Mary Terr(e)y both of Knowle, married 29 June 1706. (image 33, rhs)
Hannah, daughter of Thomas Aubert, baptised 28 June 1707 (image 34, lhs)
Mary, wife of Henry Aubert, buried 29 Aug 1707 - Affadavit was made (image 34, lhs)
Henry Aubert & Elizabeth Sneth(?) married 5 April 1710 (image 34, rhs)
Frances daughter of Thomas Aubert baptised 30 April 1710 (image 35, rhs)
Henry Aubert buried 9 May 1710 (image 35, rhs)
Hannah daughter of Thomas Aubert buried 26 May 1710 (image 35, rhs)
(And I have found some records relating to 2 sons of a Nikolas/Nicholas Terrey/Terroy a bit earlier, 1701 & 1703, no mother mentioned.)
I'm going to dig around a bit more in that set of records, but wondering if Thomas and Henry were brothers, and perhaps the record relating to Mary's burial is a mistake and should have read wife of Thomas instead?
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Hi
Aubert seems to be quite a difficult name to get to grips with.
It's certainly a pity that they didn't name the mothers in Knowle!
It seems to make sense if it's Henry's wife that died, as it's a Henry Aubert who married Elizabeth Sneth (in 1708!). Although it doesn't tell us that he was a widower.
Then a Henry Aubert dies in 1710.
There's a marriage at Lapworth, 24 Dec 1711
Thomas Luckman of this parish + Elizabeth Albert of Knoll
They actually give a link for this image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SKS-M4W?i=105&cc=1462403
So possibly she might have been the widow of Henry?
John
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Yes, could well be, as it seems that Aubert did morph into Albert over time (and/or vice versa, if this is to be believed: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Aubert - although here's a different version of its orgins: https://www.houseofnames.com/aubert-family-crest).
Only now I'm further confused, having scrolled forward and found a son of Thomas Aubert buried 15 April 1711 - no name, possibly stillborn (img 36, rhs) and another son, Edward, baptised 14 Aug 1714 (img 37, rhs - name looking a bit like Aubrett or Arbutt, but probably Aubert). These would have been after the death of the Mary who died in 1707, but I haven't seen him re-marry before them. Always possible that I missed something though.
And I passed by an Elizabeth Smith in the earlier records - probably that one that looks like Sneth. (And found a couple of sons of Nicholas Terr(e)y/Terroy and a daughter Elizabeth, but a bit too late to be the same generation as Mary Terrey.)
Yes, it would be a LOT easier if they listed the women's names, who after all did all the hard work of carrying and bearing the babies!! :)
I guess there's nothing for it but to put my nose to the grindstone and trawl through some more records...
[Edit: Oh, and there was also a son Joseph, of Henry Albert born 23 Oct 1701 - either a previous wife, or not Henry Aubert this time, although I don't recall spotting any other Alberts.]
[Another edit: nothing yet, but note the baby born at the top left of image 37, where the mother's name is given, but the child labelled a Bastard - although can't quite read the name or the words beginning with "w". :-\]
Mel
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Hi
I would think that Henry and Thomas were two different people. Henry died,but Thomas carried on having children in Knowle (possibly with Mary)
I suppose it's just possible that Henry might have been the father of Thomas, but of course he may have been a brother.
Baptism 28 Dec 1690 at Knowle (image 21)
Susanna the daughter of Henry Awbut
and going back a bit more,
26 July 1687
Anne the daughter of Henry Awbutt
But then it is a very long gap to the baptism of Joseph in 1702 that you found!
John
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Marriage at Knowle, 20 October 1686 (image 18)
Henry Awbut + Mary Taylor
both of Knolle
(so much for the father of Thomas idea!)
John
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Hi John
Oh, thanks very much for spotting and posting those. I remember seeing quite a lot of Taylors, but must have missed the "Awbut"s. I'll have to come back to this with fresh brain and eyes when I have time and sketch out the Aubert family connections before putting the records up online, I think.
(In the meantime, last night I got somewhat sidetracked by following up some of the Mumfords on Frances' husband's side - much easier to track because indexed and mostly spelt correctly on the transcriptions.)
Cheers,
Mel
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Well, I've now put together the various Aubert family links together. I think it's still a possibility that Thomas is the son of Henry, but I cannot find proof of Thomas' origins at the moment, so will reconsider that next time I come back to it. At the moment I've left him as brother.
The first mention is of Henry marrying Mary Taylor in Knowle in October 1686. This would fit with his leaving France after the Edict of Fontainebleau in 1685 which removed the Huguenots' protections. So Henry may have been born between, say, 1646-1666.
Henry and Mary have Anne, Susanna and Joseph, before Mary dies in late 1707. Henry marries Elizabeth Smith (Sneth) in 1708, but dies 2 years later in 1710. (Elizabeth may have remarried, to Thomas Luckman, in Lapworth.)
Thomas Aubert marries Mary Terr(e)y in 1706 - so he may have been born 1666-1686. They have Hannah (dies aged 3), Frances (may have gone to Ladbrooke and married John Mumford at age 28), infant who dies young, then Edward in 1714. No further record of Edward as yet.
As yet no record of burial for Mary, wife of Thomas, but I think it is he who goes to London and remarries in 1728, to Anne Poret, and has another son, Barthelemy Thomas. (There are various records from the French Huguenot church there.)