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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Helina on Friday 18 March 16 15:01 GMT (UK)
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Edward Patrick Evendon born 1893 Greenwich London, in 1919 he married Bessie Burrows in Cheltenham. His 2 daughters were born in Hamshire, the other 5 in Cardiff. Sometime Edward and Bessie moved back to Cheltenham as he died there in 1957.
At the age of 5 he was admitted to the Greenwich workhouse due to being abanded by his father, no mention of a mother.
Would like to know who his parents were.
Any help would be appreciated.
helina
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If he is not with his parents on a census, the unless you can find a christening, you will need to purchase the birth cert to ascertain who his parents were.
Does he name a father on his marriage cert?
(Just spotted he appears to have siblings on the workhouse admission register. That may help)
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As they were Roman Catholic (according to the register) it is very unlikely that any baptisms will be available online.
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I can't see an Edward Patrick Evendon birth reg in Greenwich (or anywhere else) in or around 1893 ???
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I see that his surname was recorded as EVENDEN on the 1919 marriage.
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So: birth possibly as plain Edward Evenden, Sep qtr 1893 Greenwich?
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Thanks for your help, I knew they were RC, doing this research for my brother in law so not sure if he will wish to obtain a certificate.
helina
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Royal Marines Register gives dob as 28 May 1893, he enlisted 1921
Seems he must have added middle name Patrick!
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Looking for possible births fro older brothers (assumed brothers!) William and Thomas brings up possible births for them in Cranbrook, but still not getting them in 1891!
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Workhouse records mention a sister Eliza -3 Coppras Square ::)
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Possibility for his elder brothers in 1901:
Wm Evendon, 12 b Greenwich, "cook" and inmate.
Thos Evenden, 12 b Greenwich, inmate
Both at the St Joseph & St Anne Orphanage, Farnborough.
RG13/692/93/7
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Cannot find Eliza
helina
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Looking for possible births fro older brothers (assumed brothers!) William and Thomas brings up possible births for them in Cranbrook, but still not getting them in 1891!
Thomas born in Cranbrook Sep qtr 1890 may have died the same quarter.
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doing this research for my brother in law so not sure if he will wish to obtain a certificate.
Sometimes it's the only way to obtain accurate information :-\
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Just a thought 1891 -Living at Verney Road, Camberwell,
William Everden 40 Bricklayer Deptford
Mary Everden 42 Westminster, Middlesex
George Everden 15 Sawyer New Cross, Middlesex
Annie Everden 14 New Cross, Middlesex
Charles Everden 11 New Cross, Middlesex
Eliza Everden 9 New Cross, Middlesex
Jane Everden 6 Camberwell, Middlesex
William Everden 4 Camberwell, Middlesex
Thomas Everden 1 Camberwell
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Just a thought 1891 -Living at Verney Road, Camberwell,
William Everden 40 Bricklayer Deptford
Mary Everden 42 Westminster, Middlesex
George Everden 15 Sawyer New Cross, Middlesex
Annie Everden 14 New Cross, Middlesex
Charles Everden 11 New Cross, Middlesex
Eliza Everden 9 New Cross, Middlesex
Jane Everden 6 Camberwell, Middlesex
William Everden 4 Camberwell, Middlesex
Thomas Everden 1 Camberwell
Camberwell is interesting - because a later Army record which is a possible for Thomas (as Thomas Joseph) gives his birthplace as Peckham.
The boys may have adopted middle names on confirmation or similar.
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Possible birth for one boy: William Evendon Mar qtr 1888 Camberwell
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In 1896 there is a school entry for a Thomas Evenden at Frankham St School Lewisham, born Mar 1890 living 61 Watergate Rd, infuriatingly no father named.
Does the army record give that Thomas' dob?
ADDED:
Possible death of Mary:
Deaths Jun 1897
Evenden Mary 48 Greenwich 1d 501
Perhaps that family moved from Camberwell to Greenwich between 1891 & 1897 then Edward (see birth ref above) & possibly other children born there.
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Does the army record give that Thomas' dob?
28 yrs 10 months on attestation which was 22 Feb 1919.
So born Mar-Apr 1890.
He joined the Royal Tank Corps, as had Edward Patrick Evenden much earlier (on 28 Apr 1908 aged 14 yrs 11 months).
Both had "musician" as their trade on enlistment.
Thomas's wife is listed as Frances Maud nee Scanlan, married 20.10.1923 in Greenwich.
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So born Mar-Apr 1890.
So could be the school record...
Marriage Greenwich again, wonder if marriage record can be found to give father's name? ADDED: No can't find parish records, probably too recent anyway.
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Thomas may have been registered at birth as Thomas EVINTON, Jun qtr 1890 Camberwell.
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This is all looking good
Eliza seems to be in Greenwich area (well, the Registration district) in 1901, adding fuel to the theory the family moved there from Camberwell area
1901
Cross field Lane Deptford
Samuel and Susannah Wells and numerous children (he a bricklayer)
Eliza Evenden 19 visitor Starcher and laundress
says bn Deptford, like the list of children. But next person down is bn Greenwich. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that that birth place was meant to be on her line ....
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Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1904
Greenwich
ref 1d 1776
Eliza Evenden / James Scott or Albert William Willis
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says bn Deptford, like the list of children. But next person down is bn Greenwich.
Bang next door anyway.
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Workhouse records mention a sister Eliza -3 Coppras Square ::)
Out of interest, here's where Copperas St is - can't find the Square
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.4810&lon=-0.0196&layers=168
and why it was called that:
http://carolineld.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/deptford-copperas.html
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Morning Post 10 June 1897 - Double murder in Greenwich
Edward Callaghan murdered his sister Mary Ann Evenden and his niece by cutting their throats,
Edward had been staying with the family 3 weeks as he was ill and had no work and his sister had asked him to leave as they couldn't keep him . Mary's husband William (a bricklayer) and sons William and Charles are mentioned
Edit Another report mentions that they were living at Copperas Square at the time poor souls
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What a find, well done. Niece probably Annie, same page as Mary Ann.
Deaths Jun 1897
Evenden Annie 19 Greenwich 1d 501
Edward Callaghan announced insane on 30 Jun 1897, detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.
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Yes what a find, need to get my head around information found. Thanks folks .
helina
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Hi
Being looking for a marriage for William Evenden and Mary, if her brother was called Edward Callaghan so hopefully will be Mary's surname but cannot find a marriage.
Does ancestry show the marriage certificates copy for London? I do not subscribe to ancestry so wandered if someone could have a look.
Thank you
helina
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1881 - Deptford
RG11/709 f81 p10
William Evenden 29 bn St Paul, Deptford occ Bricklayer
Mary 30 bn Westminster
George 5
Annie 3
Charles 1
children bn St Paul, Deptford
The best I can come up with is :-\
June qtr 1871
William Evenden
Mary Ann Wills
Westminster 1a 754
Trying to find Edward or Mary A in 1871 ::)
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The only marriage I can find is in 1871, June 1871 William Evenden to Mary Ann Wills Westminster 1a 754
According to the 1881 census Mary was born in Westminster.
helina
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Snap??? Maybe Mary was a widow.
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I can't see a marriage except the 1871 either
28 May 1871 Saint James,Westminster Mary Ann Wills to William Evenden
Her father Major Robert Wills
It could be that they didn't marry
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Old Bailey report on Edwards trial gives his age as 30 - that does not agree with newspaper
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-478-18970628&div=t18970628-478#highlight
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Oh dear, how complex. Anyway according to the 1901 census Eliza, daughter of William and Mary, is visiting Samuel Wels and family which confirms the marriage between William and Mary Wells. Now where does Edward Callaghan come into it?
helina
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Perhaps Edward & Mary Ann were half siblings, so did not share a surname? Can we find Edward Callaghan in 1871?
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28 May 1871 Saint James,Westminster Mary Ann Wills to William Evenden
This William was an ostler, bachelor; Mary Ann Wills a spinster both of Carnaby Street witnesses William Gilder & Elizabeth Wills.
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28 May 1871 Saint James,Westminster Mary Ann Wills to William Evenden
This William was an ostler, bachelor; Mary Ann Wills a spinster both of Carnaby Street witnesses William Gilder & Elizabeth Wills.
Yes - I don't think this is the right marriage. I can't find a link between Samuel Wills and a family that would fit the Mary Ann Wills that married in 1871 - However I only had the date of the wedding and father's name!!
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I agree.
1901 census Eliza, daughter of William and Mary, is visiting Samuel Wels and family
Didn't daughter Eliza Evenden possibly marry a Willis in 1904? Perhaps the groom's is the Samuel Wi(e)ll(i)s family.
ADDED: This Samuel Wells was a bricklayer - like William Evenden.
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I keep coming back to this family in 1861 living at 2, Kentfield Place, St Pauls, Greenwich. The age for Edward fits with the age given in the newspapers (40) but not in the trial report(30) - one must be wrong.
David Callaghan 36 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
Julia Callaghan 32 Labourer Ireland
Mary Callaghan 12 City of London, Middlesex
John Callaghan 10 Deptford, Kent
Edward Callaghan 6 Deptford, Kent
Anne Callaghan 2 Deptford, Kent
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AHA another good find Kay - so Mary age 12 could be Mary Ann who is 30 in 1881?? She is born City of London - which could be Westminster.
I wonder what happened to William after he left his children at the workhouse in 1898? There is a passport application of September 1899 for a W Evendon.
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David Callaghan 36 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
I think he is Dennis.....RG 9; Piece: 393; Folio: 85; Page: 14. Further children Thomas, William (same children's names as Mary Ann Evenden uses).
Mary aged 21 & Edward aged 15 still with family in 1871 (2 April), neither in 1881.
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I keep coming back to this family in 1861 living at 2, Kentfield Place, St Pauls, Greenwich. The age for Edward fits with the age given in the newspapers (40) but not in the trial report(30) - one must be wrong.
David Callaghan 36 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
Julia Callaghan 32 Labourer Ireland
Mary Callaghan 12 City of London, Middlesex
John Callaghan 10 Deptford, Kent
Edward Callaghan 6 Deptford, Kent
Anne Callaghan 2 Deptford, Kent
That is the one Ancestry keeps suggesting to me, they have Mary Evenden in 1881 linked to it. ;D
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I think this might be Edward in 1891 listed as married and a dock labourer - Living in Deptford next door to Dennis and Ann Callaghan
Edward Callaghan 34 b Deptford
Margaret Callaghan 33
Jane Callaghan 9
Edward Callaghan 4
Margaret Callaghan 11 months
Josey - You are right re Dennis - My eyes are getting worse!!
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My eyes are getting worse!!
;D ;D ;D
Wonder why there was no mention of wife & children for Edward in the trial proceedings? I can't find the family [minus Edward in prison] in later censuses.
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No - I can't find the family with or without him in 1901 and no mention is made of him being married or single in the Old Bailey proceedings(as you said) :-\. I thought his wife might have left him or died
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There is an Ed Callaghan age 13 in St Joseph & St Ann Orphanage in 1901 bn Greenwich
RG13/692 f94 p10
Same place as his cousins were in :-\
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Looks like the parents deaths
Deaths Dec 1898
Callaghan Julia 73 Greenwich 1d 584
Deaths Mar 1899
Callaghan Dennis 75 Greenwich 1d 728
Cannot see deaths for Margaret snr or jnr.
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A Jane Callaghan age 9 was admitted to Woolwich Road Workhouse, Greenwich in 25 Jun 1891 on the grounds that she had been deserted by her parents?? :-\
And in 1893 she goes in with brother Edward age 6 -Deserted by father - mother in prison(I think it's mother is image is just mo)
Edit - On 5 Jun 1897 both Margaret age 9 and Edward admitted to Workhouse as father was in custody - Grandmother listed as Jane Courtney
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Well, what a unhappy family, very likely may be William Evenden and Mary Ann Callaghan? never married just lived to gether. As long as the priest did not know.
helina
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Yes found the marriage for Eliza Evenden and Albert William Wills but again they seemed to of disappeared after their marriage in 1904.
As you know Eliza, Thomas, William and Edward are admitted to the Greenwich work house in 1898, but not Jane who was 3 years younger than Eliza, in 1901 she is working as a general servant.
helina
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Yes found the marriage for Eliza Evenden and Albert William Wills but again they seemed to of disappeared after their marriage in 1904.
helina
An Eliza Evenden married either Albert William Willis or James Scott. I can't see either couples post their marriage at the moment or births for either post 1911
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I know this is clutching at straws but the baptism for this birth
Dec qtr 1905 -
Albert Frederick Willis (Greenwich 1d 104)
gives parents Albert (no middle name) & Eliza. Albert is an engineer -address 3 Burgos Grove. They are not at that address on the next census
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I think Albert William might be listed as William in 1911 with a further child Annie age 3
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very likely may be William Evenden and Mary Ann Callaghan? never married just lived together.
Yes, I think the general consensus is that those are Edward 1893's parents.
Mary Ann born Westminster ca 1849 probably daughter of Dennis Callaghan born ca 1825 & wife Julia born ca 1827 both Limerick, Ireland.
William born ca 1851 Deptford so possibly
Births Jun 1851
Evenden William Charles Greenwich 5 223.
DO we have William in 1851 [date 24 Mar so probably on it] or 1861?
ADDED:
1861 RG09/595/13/20
3 Albion Cottages Brighton
William Evenden 34 bricklayer b New Cross
Eliza 34 b Camberwell
Henry 13 errand boy b Deptford
William 10 b Deptford
Sarah 6 b Brighton
Jane 4 b Brighton
Mary Ann 1 b Brighton
1851 Charles Street Deptford HO107/1584/362/17 - William 25, Eliza 26, Henry 3.
Possible death for ELiza
Deaths Mar 1862
EVENDEN Eliza Brighton 2b 124
1871 RG10; Piece: 746; Folio: 73; Page: 26; @47 Angus Street, Deptford
William Evernden (ancestry) 43 bricklayer b New Cross
Ellen 30 (must be new wife) 30 b New Cross
Mary A 11 b Brighton
1881 RG11; Piece: 708; Folio: 102; Page: 12 @ 14 Walpole Rd, Deptford
W Evenden 53 plasterer b New Cross
E Evenden 40 b New Cross
C Evenden male 9 b New Cross
A Evenden male 7 b New Cross
E Evenden female 5 b New Cross
1891 RG12; Piece: 499; Folio: 18; Page: 30 @21 Milton Crt Rd
Wm Evenden 63 bricklayer b New Cross
Ellen 50 b New Cross wardrobe purchaser
Ellen 15 b New Cross do
Margaret Follins 40 sister-in-law blind
so this marriage
Marriages Jun 1865
Evenden William Bermondsey 1d 82
Follings Ellen Bermondsey 1d 82
This birth certificate will give maiden name of Eliza Evenden - Edward 1893's grandmother; I can't find a suitable marriage for William & Eliza [may have been Elizabeth]
Births Mar 1857
Evenden Jane Brighton 2b 206
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Thank you, you have dug out more then I expected and have now put together a separate tree to work on. Very likely will order a birth certificate for Edward Patrick just to confirm the parents for my own satisfaction.
helina
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Edward Callaghan born 1857 is sister to Mary Callaghan who married William Charles Evenden. Edward married Margaret Courtney. See my earlier message for my contact details.
Cheers Gen Campbell
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Received the birth certificate which confirms that Mary and William Evenden were Edward Patrick's parents.
I now have another problem going back another generation.
William Evenden born 1827 New Cross, Surrey, married twice. the first wife was Eliza Follins have no other details apart from the fact she died in 1862. The second wife was Ellen Follings (did wonder if Eliza and Ellen were sisters and the g had been omitted in Follins)
I have been viewing the births on the GRO Record site for the children and am more confused.
William and Eliza's children
Henry born 1847 Deptford, Kent. Not registered
William Charles born 1851 Deptford, Kent. Mother's maiden name "Raven" Greenwich
Charles Thomas born 1853 Deptford, Kent. Mother's maiden name "Rummins" Greenwich
Sarah born 1855, Brighton. Mother's maiden name "Rommings" Brighthelmston
Jane born 1847, Brighton, Mother's maiden name "Rummins" Brighton
Mary Ann born 1859, Brighton, Can find no entry.
Any help would be appreciated.
helina
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William Evenden born 1827 New Cross, Surrey, married twice. the first wife was Eliza Follins
Have you a reference for this marriage? Maybe she was a widow Eliza Follins nee Rummins [or similar]? I can find the image of the 1865 marriage with Ellen Follings [spinster of full age on marriage, age 30 on 1871 census so about 24 in 1865 so born ca 1840] daughter of Bartholemew Follings gardener.
Marriages Jun 1865
Evenden William Bermondsey 1d 82
Follings Ellen Bermondsey 1d 82
Probable birth
FOLLINGS, ELLEN MMN MINAHAN
GRO Reference: 1840 D Quarter in GREENWICH UNION Volume 05 Page 190
In 1841
Ellen Follins 30 lab ag
Borthlomy Follins 40 lab ag
both born Ireland
Cathern Follins 9
John Follins 7
Elen Follins 9 Mo
all children BIC
HO107; Piece: 488; Book: 17; Civil Parish: St Paul; County: Kent; Enumeration District: 24; Folio: 60; Page: 21;
Eliza is about same age as William in both 1851 census HO107; Piece: 1584; Folio: 362; Page: 17 & 1861 census RG 9; Piece: 595; Folio: 13; Page: 20 so born ca 1827.
For the back burner here's a possible Eliza Rummings
1841 Cranbrooke, Kent
John Rumming 60 carpenter
Abigail Rumming 55
Eliza Rumming 15
Naomi Rumming 15
George Rumming 4 Mo
All BIC
As an aside George seems a bit young to be Abigail's?? Eliza & Naomi could be 15 - 19 with 1841 rounding down.
HO107; Piece: 472; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Cranbrooke; County: Kent; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 19; Page: 7; Line: 2; I can't find a baptism in Kent.
So not an impossible gap for Eliza & Ellen to be sisters, but the mother's maiden name of Raven/Rummins etc is a a bit of a poser for William's children by Eliza.
ADDED: Not sure if it's been mentioned before to save duplication [of which some above before I saw it but another thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747199.0
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Thanks, josey, I have a copy of William's second marriage, but not the first and funny the surnames are so similar. Could be the Rummings family. Eliza Follins was born in Camberwell, Surrey in 1827. Another brick wall.
helina
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In regard to William Evenden and wife Elizabeth "Eliza" Bates; I have a date of 1846 as their marriage ref: England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Vol 5, Page 133. There were 6 children born from 1847, Thomas Henry Evenden to the last in 1860, Mary Ann Evenden. I have never heard of Raven, Rommings etc as the mother. I am yet to find Eliza Bates parents.
Also Ellen Follings was a spinister when she married William in 1865 if you refer to the marriage certificate. Ellen Follings had a sister Margaret Follings. Eliza Bates and Ellen Follings were not related. I have an enormous amount of history on this line which I have been researching for over 20 years. Cheers Gen Campbell
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Thanks for that information, Glen, but I am abit lost regarding Elizabeth Bates, are you saying William's first wife was Elizabeth? certainly can find no information on the so called Eliza Follins.
helina
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I have spent hours trying to prove or disprove that the Edward Callaghan mentioned in the Old Bailey trial is the son of Dennis and Julia (these are ancestors of mine). I may be missing something but I cannot tie the Edward mentioned in the trial to this Edward - the birthdate is way out. Plus, there is no evidence that I can find that his sister, Mary Anne, married William Evenden. There is another Edward Callaghan who was born in 1867, which would make him the right age, who was previously in Wandsworth prison. Has anyone got any further evidence with regards this person?
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Hello again Helina
Edward Callaghan born Deptford, Greenwich in 1857 is the son of Dennis Callaghan & Julia Dwyer and is the same Edward as mentioned in the Old Bailey Trial - he was the brother of Mary Ann Callaghan who died by his hands. Mary Ann married William in Jun 1871, Westminster and is a direct descendant on my side of things. This Edward is the same as the one in Wandsworth Prison, before he was declared insane after murdering his sister, Mary and niece Annie. Ref UK, Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912. He died in Broadmoor Asylum, Crowthorne, Berkshire, England on 26 Jan 1917 and was buried on 30 Jan 1917. (Ref Berkshire Burial Index). In relation to your earlier message regarding William Evenden born 1828, yest William married Elizabeth 'Eliza' Bates in 1846 in Cranbrook, Kent but she died in 1862. They had 6 children. He married Ellen Follings on 5 Jun 1865 at St James Bermondsey Southwark. William died in 1893 (2 years previously it was stated he was paralysed) and Ellen died in May 1929, Poplar, London. William & Ellen had three children. I have substantial information on this line, together with sources and as mentioned previously I am happy to share which will save you a lot of time. Further Edward Patrick Evenden born 22 May 1893, married Bessie Burrows in 1919. They had 8 children. He died on 15 Dec 1957 in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. After his mother died 1897, Edward was listed as Edward Evington, aged 8 years, born in Greenwich on the 1901 Census at St Mary's School for Boys in Eltham - listed as 'Attending School'. Even though his name is spelt incorrectly, I am sure that this is him as he is the only one from Greenwich with the correct age as all orphanage records have been searched.
In the 1911 British Census, Edward is listed on an 'Institution' record as Edward, aged 17 and County "Overseas Military".
In the 1911 British Census, Edward is listed as a boy, aged 17 yrs with the 8th Royal Irish Hussars, Campbell Barracks, Dilkusha, Lucknow, India. His trade is a musician and he was in the same barracks as his brother William Patrick.
Edward & Bessie lived in Winchcombe, & Cheltenham, both in the county of Gloucestershire. His granddaughter, Jane told us that he was a Trumpeter in a UK orchestra.
If I can help further let me know.
Cheers
Gen
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Thank you, Glen, you have reassured me.
helina
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Good morning Gen
Fascinating that you are a direct descendent. My connection is with Annie Callaghan, Edward and Mary's sister, she was my great grandmother. I have worked on this line for several years on and off but not managed to trace Dennis and Julia back to their Irish roots. Do you have anything on this? Also, any documentation or family info you have regarding the Edward and Mary case would be hugely appreciated! I am not doubting you are correct but would love to know more.
Thank you so much!
Heather