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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Jonson1 on Monday 21 March 16 09:26 GMT (UK)
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I wonder whether anyone can help? Alexander Cobham bought the manor of Shinfield, Berkshire, around 1786, married Charlotte Slade, the daughter of a Somerset baronet, in 1787 and became high sheriff of Berkshire in 1790. He seems to have come from nowhere, although some have suggested he made his money through the East India Company. Possible birthdate around 1836 and death 1809. In his will, proved PCC 16th October 1809, he mentions his sister Mary, wife of Edward Craig of Carrickfergus, and their sons, William, Thomas and Edward. William and Thomas predecease him and he actually leaves Shinfield to his godson, Alexander Cobham Martyr, the infant son of his cousin Catherine Jane Martyr. Catherine was the only daughter of Thomas Cobham and she was born 1773 in Wilmington, North Carolina, where her father was a doctor.
I have found reference to the fact that Mary (Cobham) Craig (possible dates 1750 to 1825) was the daughter of James Cobham (no dates) of Carrickfergus and that he was was the son of the Revd James Cobham (1678?-1759?), Presbyterian minister of Ballycarry for over 50 years. I have not been able to find the births of Mary and Alexander however.
Dr Thomas Cobham of Wilmington was a loyalist who had to leave North Carolina after the American War of Independence. He eventually settled near Plymouth where he died in 1798. His PCC will mentions a brother, Archibald Cobham, who was a naval surgeon and his daughter, Catherine, but no other relations. Archibald Cobham died in 1805 and his will, proved PCC 23rd March 1805, mentions only his wife, Kezurah. Although people in North Carolina referred to Thomas Cobham at the time as being Scottish, I am now wondering whether he too came from around Carrigfergus.
Any help would be much appreciated!
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Some 1820's Newspapers in Ireland have reference to property in Carrickfergus, formerly under possession of an Alexander Cobham.
The Larne Times in 1938 also carries a historical story from 1760, which mentions a Mr and Mrs James Cobham at their home in West Street, Carrickfergus.
A 1942 article, commemorating 300 yrs of Presbyterianism in Carrickfergus, has comment from the Methodist Church, showing friendship between the churches and recalling similar friendship in the past by mentioning when the Rev John Wesley had been 'hospitably entertained' by a James Cobham, 'leading member and trustee of the First Congregation'. As far as I can discover, on 24 July 1756, John Wesley preached his first sermon in the Session House at Carrickfergus.
First Carrickfergus Presbyterian Church has baptisms from 1823 to 1901 and marriages 1823 to 1905, available at PRONI on MIC/1P/157, albeit latter than the dates you were hopeful of.
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PRONI have various Cobham references in their online catalogue. Perhaps of interest are:
D509/452
Dates : 20 June 1770
Description : Counterpart lease of 60 acres 2r. 29 per. I.P.M. for three lives or 41 years - Rent: £21 p.a. plus fees of Rt Hon. Arthur Earl of Donegall to James Cobham, Carrickfergus relating to Liberties of Carrickfergus.
D509/1436
Dates : 1 January 1803
Description : Lease of 60 acres 2r. 29 per. I.P.M. for 61 years (See D509/452) - Rent: £21 2s. p.a. plus fees of Most Hon. George Augustus Marquess of Donegall to Alexander Cobham, Shinefield Place near Reading, Berkshire relating to Liberties of Carrickfergus, Co. Antrim.
others can be checked at:
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_eCatNI_IE/SearchPage.aspx
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Hi scotmum.
Thanks for coming back to me. I will certainly pursue the PRONI link and see what else might be of help. From what you have given me, it looks as if I am on the right track and that the Cobhams were from present day Northern Ireland. Alexander Cobham would appear to have still kept his connections with Carrickfergus despite living at Shinfield and it is good to see a connection between him and the James Cobham I mentioned. I of course forgot that Alexander Cobham's birth date is unusually mentioned in his will, 24th March 1736/37 which means 1737.
With Irish parish registers being more difficult, I may be unable to prove the birth place and date for Thomas and Archibald Cobham. I will see whether there might be wills for the two James Cobhams.
Thanks again
Jonson1
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Ballycarry Presbyterian Church- Mr. James Cobham (lic. Belfast) ordained c1700 and died 23 Feb.1759 according to A History of Congregations in the Presbyterian Church in Ireland 1610-1982.
"Parish records" refer to Church of Ireland or R.C. ones.
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A bit available on the internet if you google "cobham" and "carrickfergus", including this about the two James, father and son:
http://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/whs/21-6.pdf
Also the following Cobham references, in case they provide any hooks going forward. An Ann Taylor Cobham died on 12 February 1758 and was buried in Carrickfergus Church of Ireland, her father was called James Cobham. An Alexander Cobham was baptised in Carrickfergus Church of Ireland on 13 September 1786, his parents were James Cobham and Elizabeth Riddle. A Margaret Clark Cobham was baptised in Carrickfergus Church of Ireland on 16 January 1789, her father was William Cobham.
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Thanks gaffy and aghadowey for your two messages. All helping me to get a picture of the Cobham family in Carrickfergus, but I am going to have a bit more work to prove the connection. There were obviously a number of Cobhams around at that time. I wonder whether either of the two James Cobham's, father and son, left a will.
I am in touch with the Martyr/Cobham descendants who inherited Shinfield, but they don't seem to have any old family papers that help. The usual stories about the family coming over with William the Conquerer!
Jonson1
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There's a few mentions of James Cobham in "The History and Antiquities of the County of the Town of Carrickfergus..." (1909) which is freely available online I think. It also mentions a James Craig who could potentially be the father of Edward Craig, though goodness knows how you'd ever prove it. (Cobham apparently hosted Thurot as well - which is another little claim to fame.)
I don't think there's as much detail as in the biblicalstudies link gaffy posted. Looking at it though, maybe there will be other accounts of Wesley's visit - perhaps they could mention the family?
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Thanks Gilby - although I think it is going to be difficult to find exact dates and connections, I am beginning to build up a picture of Cobhams and Craigs around Carrickfergus in the 18th century. Useful that John Wesley stayed with James Cobham at that precise moment! Away for a few days, but will work through all this on my return. Jonson1
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With regard to your questions, my amateurish efforts (almost all via the internet) are as follows:
Alexander Cobham was indeed born in Ballycarry, Broadisland (also known as Templecorran), in County Antrim in what is now Northern Ireland. The date of birth was (I believe) 24th March 1736 (source: Family Search.com).
His father was James Cobham (m. abt 1735; died 1797; buried in Templecorran church), whose father was the Rev. James Cobham, a famous Presbyterian minister. James Cobham junior was well to do and a wine merchant in Carrickfergus. His name appears in the list of Grand Jurors for the County of the Town of Carrickfergus in 1754, and also appears amongst the elected officers of the Carrickfergus Royalists Company of Volunteers in 1784.
He is referred to as a host of John Wesley when the latter visited Carrickfergus in May 1760.
James Cobham junior owned two houses outside the Irish Gate on the north side of the Irish Quarter, in one of which he may have resided. At a date, now impossible to determine, he removed to a house on the south side of West Street, where he resided in 1771 and probably until his death. He also owned other properties in Carrickfergus.
The Rev. James Cobham (1678 - 1759) was the Presbyterian Minister for over 50 years (from c. 1700) in Ballycarry (or Broadisland), County Antrim. This was the oldest Presbyterian church in Ireland, founded by Edward Brice in 1613.
The Rev. James Cobham’s father was the Rev. Thomas Cobham (d. 1706), who was Presbyterian minister of Dundonald and Holywood Presbyterian churches in Co. Down, from his ordination in 1678 to 1702 (or 1704), when the two churches were separated. He then continued at Holywood until he died in 1706. [Note that there was another Rev. Thomas Cobham, Presbyterian Minister at Clough in Co. Antrim, but in Proceedings of the Wesley Historical Society it is stated with some confidence that it was “Dundonald and Holywood” who was the father of the Rev James.]
Returning to Alexander Cobham, the records of the India Office show that he sailed to India in the ship Success in 1783 - 4 as a ‘free merchant’. The Gentleman's Magazine and Historical Review, Volume 79, Part 2 (Aug 1809) in reporting his death stated that he "acquired a handsome fortune in the service of the East India Company".
Until 1786 he was ‘Alexander Cobham of Binfield’ (Binfield is near to, but separate from Shinfield) ; in 1787 he married Charlotte Slade, was appointed by commission a Deputy Lieutenant of Berkshire and purchased the Shinfield Estate from his brother in law John Slade and the Earl of Fingal (possibly they were trustees); however, he pulled down the old Manor House and removed with his wife to Shinfield Grange. He served as High Sheriff of Berkshire in 1790.
The couple had no children, and Alexander made provision for leaving his money to his relations. He made a will in 1804. As was the fashion in the days of primogeniture, he wanted to leave everything to one relation (preferably male), to carry on the family dynasty, but if that heir died without male heirs, the property would pass to a different male heir of the testator. In the will in 1804 the estate was to go to his youngest nephew - the third son of Alexander’s sister Mary Craig (1750 - 1825) - called William (aged about 17 at the time). He was preferred over the eldest nephew, Edward (3 years older) who, it is speculated, had blotted his copybook whilst serving as a Lieutenant for the East India Company. Then, in 1806, William died and so Alexander changed the will to make the middle nephew (Thomas Craig) the primary heir, with Edward next in line if Thomas were to die without male issue. If both Thomas and Edward were to die without male issue, the estate was to go to the three Craig nieces, Mary, Sarah and Charlotte Craig, in a similar way. Only if none of the 6 were to have male issue was the estate to go to "cousin Catherine Martyr for life and her male issue successively". Catherine Martyr’s maiden name was Cobham, and she was the only child and daughter of Dr. Thomas Cobham (of whom more, below).
After 1806 and before 1809 the heir Thomas died. However, Alexander Cobham did not get round to changing the will again to accommodate this fact.
By 1808 Catherine Martyr had 5 living children, the youngest of which was a boy born in 1808; he was named “Alexander Cobham Martyr” in honour of his elderly relation, who was asked to be godfather to the boy. Relations between Alexander Cobham and the Martyrs became rather close … [to be continued ...]
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... continued from previous post ...
On 11th July 1809 Alexander was returning to Shinfield from Reading, when he fell from his horse and broke his back. He was completely paralysed. His failure to return home was noticed and a search party located him and returned him to the house. He was resigned to his death in the very near future and sent for his solicitor. During the night of the 11th/12th July he altered his will (by a duly executed codicil, prepared and witnessed by the solicitor who had been sent for) to leave everything to his 13 month old relation, Alexander Cobham Martyr and his heirs (on condition that he change his surname to Cobham). Only in the event that Alexander Cobham Martyr died without issue would the estate revert to those Craig children still living. On 12th July, at about 10 a.m. Alexander Cobham died.
The change to the will which was effected on the night of the 11th July 1809 was challenged in the High Court (before Mr. Baron Wood and a jury), on the ground that the testator was not of sound mind when he executed the codicil. I have the beautiful copperplate transcript of the entire proceedings. The challenge was made by the Craig family, but it failed.
In due course the infant Alexander Cobham Martyr changed his name and became Alexander Cobham Cobham (1808 - 1902). He married Jane Hulse Chambers (1809 - 1877) and they had 6 children, the eldest being Alexander William Cobham (1834 - 1913); he married (2ndly, his first wife having died very young) Celina Kate Blyth (1844 - 1918); they had 12 children and the eldest son was my great grandfather, Alexander Blyth Cobham (1869 - 1950).
Returning to Catherine Martyr, née Cobham. She was the daughter of Dr. Thomas Cobham (c. 1735 - 1798), who is much mentioned in a memoir by a Miss Schaw called 'Journal of a Lady of Quality’ (can be found on the internet), referring to the days of the American Revolution, when Dr. Thomas remained a loyalist.
The important thing that comes out of the trial about the will is that Dr. Thomas is clearly stated to have been the first cousin of Alexander Cobham (the testator) and not the brother. After all, one reason why the Craigs were so outraged by the alteration of the will was that Mrs. Craig was the testator’s sister, whilst the eventual beneficiary was descended from a mere cousin. Many internet sites seem to insist that Thomas was a brother to Alexander. There is then an Archibald Cobham - I am sure he was a brother of Thomas’s and therefore only a cousin of Alexander.
There is one fly in this ointment. In a story about John Wesley’s visit to Ireland in 1760, recorded in “Proceedings and Report of the Belfast Natural History and Philosophical Society (1946).” (can be found on internet) Wesley stayed with Mary Cobham (later Craig)’s parents, and Wesley records: “Mrs. Cobham said: 'My daughter [i.e. Mary] came running in and said “Mamma, there are three Indiamen come into the bay, and I suppose my brothers are come in them"’ (who had been in the East Indies for some time).” This suggests that Mary Cobham/Craig had more than one brother. However, there may have been a mistake in the record of that story or it may be the case that there were brothers other than Alexander, but they died young and had no issue, and are separate from Dr. Thomas and Archibald.
I hope this is helpful. If you have further detail or can correct any of the above, do please post a reply.
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^ Fascinating!
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Thanks Amateursleuth - a great help. I too have found a lot of this information on the internet, but you have put it together in a very coherent way. I had known about the challenge to Alexander Cobham's will by the Craig family for many years, but had not known the details or the important fact that Dr Thomas Cobham was referred to as a 'first cousin' in the documents. It wasn't until I got Alexander Cobham's will from the National Archives a while ago that I realised that it was only by a deathbed codicil (which Alexander had to mark, being too ill to sign his name) that Alexander Cobham Martyr inherited Shinfield. One has visions of the infant's mother, Catherine, leaning over the dying man and guiding his hand! There may have been a practical reason for the change in the will in that there may have been only one Craig son, possibly unpopular, surviving at that time and he was in India. The fact that Alexander mentions no other sibling than Mary in his will, indicates that, if there had been others, they were dead by this time without issue. (The three ships mentioned by you as seen by Mary proved to be French.) The leaving of Shinfield to Alexander Cobham Martyr could have been a practical decision, as, although he was an infant, his father was a respected solicitor and the family lived in England.
I have the wills of Thomas Cobham and Archibald Cobham and Thomas Cobham's will states that Archibald is his brother. Both are shown as being naval, or former naval, surgeons at the time of their deaths. From your information in the court documents, these brothers must be the sons of a brother of James Cobham of Carrickfergus and the grandsons of the Revd James Cobham of Ballycarry. It would be good to find their births and the name of their father.
I am a descendant of Alexander Cobham Martyr's older sister, Ann Percival Martyr. She married Lt George Watson and they emigrated to Australia in 1839, where my gt gt grandmother, Ellen Emma Cobham Watson, was born in 1841. She married John Bell Chirnside at Geelong in 1859 and they lived in Australia for a year or two before moving to England. The Australian property was retained until 1907, but no member of the family lived there again. Strangely, given that it is two hundred years, our branch of the family have never lost touch with members of your branch of the family. I still see descendants of Percy Edward Cobham, younger brother of your gt grandfather, and I remember meeting Henrietta Blanche Cobham, his sister. My grandmother and gt grandmother saw a lot of her and I ended up as a trustee for her daughter.
The reason for my original query is that I am starting to update a Watson family history, 'the Watson Family in England and Australia' by John Watson. He did this in the 1970s and so much more information has come to light since then, especially through the internet. His publication was just for family members and my update will be the same. John Watson died some years ago. Another connection in Australia did a family history connected to the Watsons and she was kind enough to give me a copy, but I have lost touch with her. Both she and John alluded to Cobham family history, but there is so much more especially about Dr Thomas Cobham. I have a copy of the 'Journal of a Lady of Quality' by Janet Schaw and many other references to him, and his wife and daughter, during the 1760s and 1770s in Wilmington, North Carolina. Not the best time to arrive in America as someone with loyalist sympathies.
I have recently met someone interested in history who lives in Carrickfergus and will be seeing her in a week or two. Perhaps she can ferret out some more information about the Cobhams and Craigs.
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I have read all this fascinating and very detailed information about the Cobham family and I wanted to ask if you have much/any information about the Martyr connection?
Over the last few years I have been carrying out a One-name Study into the MARTER/MARTYR family name which I can trace back to Effingham, Surrey via Greenwich, where the MARTYR/COBHAM link starts.
I have many uncorroborated dates for various births/marriages/burials of the Cobham family which resulted from Alexander (Cobham) MARTYR who married Jane Hulse CHAMBERS and would appreciate any information you may have, please. Conversely, I have a tremendous amount of information to provide on the MARTYR line.
Tony Marter
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Dear tony marter,
Thanks for your comments. I do indeed have information about the Martyr/Cobham connection and the Cobham and Martyr families, and would be happy to exchange information. I have not quite worked out the Personal Message system on Roots Chat, so I am not sure how to communicate with your personally. My sources are, I am afraid, not always wholly reliable or well researched, so I may not be of great use to you. I go back to a Joseph Martyr (b. 1708) via a mutual relation in Australia, whose researches are not fully sourced or corroborated. I have seen (I think on the internet) the " Martyr of Guldeford Family Tree", which does not fully tally with the information I have. I am on firmer ground when we reach Joseph Martyr who married Catherine Cobham. Then I have the marvellous transcript of the trial of Martyr v Craig, when old Alexander Cobham's will was challenged. Your message to me was 'filtered' by the Rootschat system to remove your email address. My name is Howard Palmer and I am a British barrister. You can google me and find my office email address easily enough, if you wish to communicate. It obviously has a spam filter, but I expect I will find your email to me!
yours ever
Howard Palmer
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Howard, I have just sent a response to you at your firm's email dtg of Sat, Oct 7, 2017 10:43 am
Hope we can go from there... and that your spam filter does not work its arcane wonder on it!