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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Kylajane on Tuesday 22 March 16 23:42 GMT (UK)
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I would be so grateful for help dating this photo of my husband's grandmother's sister please. She was adopted in 1901 and we think her name may have been changed. This postcard with photo of May was sent from her adopted mother to her younger sister (Edith Avery nee Ling, b1893 d1983). as you will see the stamp and therefore any date has been removed. All that remains of the frank (Wil) I think will stand for Willesden. The company who produced the card is A & G Taylor's Reality Series. Sadly Edith lost touch with her sister Gertrude/ May and we have been unable to discover what happened to her. Any help would be much appreciated, thank you.
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A little bit about A & G Taylor's Reality Series here: http://www.metropostcard.com/publisherst.html
As I'm sure someone else will ask, can you show the back of the postcard? I know that whether it has a divided back or not will help with the dating.
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Thank you for your help. Yes I found out a fair bit about the Reality Series, but nothing that helped me date it. I hesitated to show the back because of the copyright issue. I have read (lots of times!) the rules about copyright from links on this site & as far as I can understand it, the picture should be well out of copyright by now. Also all the people in the images (or whom I might discuss by name) are deceased. Also it is quite a sad thing that we have the letter of adoption in 1901 and then just this one postcard. I think that Ada Caroline Ling (mother to Edith and Gertrude/May Martin probably had no option but to relinquish her daughter as her husband had recently died (we think in 1900 - but not definite yet). I suspect it might have been a choice between that or the workhouse :( Well here is the reverse of the card. You can just make out the signature on the bottom as F Martin (Florence Martin, her adoptive mother). Thanks again.
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Others on here are more knowledgeable than me, but the divided back postcard was introduced in England in 1902, so must be later than that. ;) Hopefully someone else will be along soon to help with the dating.
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It's difficult to put an exact date to this on the way children are dressed as they dressed like this over a long period. The teachers are dressed in a style typical of the early to mid Edwardian Era.
However you can see at the top it says that A & G Taylor held a Royal Warrant to Queen Victoria who they describe as "the late" (d.1901) so very close to being one of the first divided back postcards. I would have to say 1902-3. So she would have been about 10/11 in this.
Unless I've misread this it looks like a sibling writing to Edith. It mentions May who you say is Gertrude. So why is it signed by the adoptive mother?
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Thank you jim1. Yes I noticed the bit about the royal warrant, but glad you can tell me about the style of dress. I was just trying to go by the age she looks on the photo. Also that we know she was adopted in 1901 and the postcard must have come after that. I do think it is from Florence (the adoptive Mum to Gertrude/ May's sister Edith. I think the girl's Mother (Ada Caroline Ling nee Yates) was probably unwell, so they are corresponding through Edith? Thing is - we can Find Florence & Raymond Martin at 7 Kilburn Sq (the same address that is also on the letter of adoption) on the 1901 census, but nothing definite of them before or after and no marriage that I can find. Also for Gertrude, no definite birth. She appears with Edith on the 1901 census living with an Aunt at 45 Victoria Road, Willesden. Family info through my husband's mother (Edith's daughter) is that Gertrude was born in 1891. My husband's mother was pretty reliable and as you see from the photo, she wrote on them to say who people were, which is a great help to us now! There is a baptism record for a May Ling in 1901, which has to be 'our' May (father deceased) but the info in the left column appears to give the actual dob as 1894 (which would make her younger than Edith, not older). We think this is the adoptive parents having Gertrude baptised as May - it's the only thing that seems to fit - except for the 1894 bit.... Anyway what I am saying is that anything that helps us to narrow down dates is really helpful and that my guess at the date of the photo agrees with yours. Still a lot more to unravel. Thanks again.
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It starts by saying "please thank mother for her letter" not your mother which sounds like a sibling other than Gertrude/May. However as there are no other siblings I suppose it must be the adoptive mother, but it does seem a strange way of writing it.
I can see 1901 the Baptism & it does say Aug. 1904.
The only one I can see which you probably know about is this one:
Mar 1893
Ling Gertrude Elsie M Paddington 1a 30
I also noticed this marriage. Is this her?
Jun 1914
Ling Gertrude M Willesden 3a 470
Nobbs Ernest
Details:
By Banns at St. Martin's Willesden on 13 June 1914.
Ernest Nobbs Bachelor 25.
Gertrude Maria Ling Spinster 22.Father Benjamin ? Ling a labourer.
One of the witnesses is Katie Eliza Ling.
Wrong one.
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I gave it a bit of a tidy for you...not great but it is very damaged.
Carol
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You are actually very lucky to have a postcard that can be dated with quite a bit of precision! In addition to Jim's comments, divided backs actually have events in postal regulations that can be used for dating.
In the UK the divided back came along in 1902, and it was in 1907 that the US allowed that sort of card to be received into the US mail system. Prior to that, some UK cards with divided backs were printed with a message to the effect that they could only be mailed inland, not overseas.
So, as Jim notes it may be an early divided back, and 1907 is the latest it can be. Unless they left the thing lying in a drawer for a while...I have some junk drawers like that :)
Cheers,
China
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That's nice, Carol! As you say, it's a tough one.
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I have some junk drawers
They make good dusters I hear.
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That's nice, Carol! As you say, it's a tough one.
Thanks China...Much appreciated...:)
Jim....that depends on the size of the Drawers ;)
Carol
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Tsk...you lot...I just knew that was coming, from Jim >:(
If you must know, mine are size Petite.
Okay, I'm lying :P ;D
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This is as far as I'm going re junk drawers. I'm just too much of a gentleman to go further.
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I can see Raymond Martin in Willesden up to 1905 then nothing. I can't see a death so maybe they emigrated.
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Oh heavens sorry - I lost my reply in the middle of writing. Hope I'm not repeating. Not sure how to answer people separately, sorry for that. Jim1 I agree about the 'mother' & 'your mother' point, but that's the only explanation I can give & it appears to agree with what has been handed down in the family (may not always be 100% reliable I know). Regarding the 'Aug 94' in the left hand margin of the baptism, I was assuming it meant 1894? Which would still be wrong according to family info, and also doesn't help to bring anything up in my research. Carol thank you for your efforts with the photo restore. actually it is just dating info I was looking for. I can manage photoshop and have done quite a lot of restoring. I am just a complete novice at the family research side of it. Thanks again for your efforts and for taking the time, I do quite enjoy working on my own photos. Actually I find it quite sad looking at that face and wondering whatever happened to her?
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Gosh Jim1 you have done much better than me. I can't find him except in the 1901 census with Florence at 7 Kilburn Sq?
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He's on the Electoral Roll at that address in 1903 & in the High St. in 1905.
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Wow jim1 you are a star! I have searched and searched, but never came up with that info. I have looked now and read up a bit on how you use the electoral registers. I thought they were included in the searches I was doing, but maybe not. It's like one big maze to get lost in. So much for me to learn. Thanks again.
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Never mind...there is no expectation when I do a restore that isn't requested so no worries there, you don't have to have it.
Carol