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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: mollipops1 on Friday 25 March 16 09:05 GMT (UK)
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I have a brick wall I'd love to even crack a little please :)
I'm posting on the Australian board as that's where they lived, though I have no idea where this couple originated. I cannot find an Australian marriage (or arrival).
Here's what I know:
Joseph HUNTER born c1864, involved in tin mining in Western Australia, where he died in 1922, aged 58 (buried Bunbury). He went bankrupt in 1911, having been in the state of WA for 17 years. Prior to this I know he was in Qld, where he had a daughter. I have his obit from Trove.
His wife was Mary DEVLIN (could it be D'EVLIN?) who died 1931 aged 71, also in WA. No other clues on her origin either (born c1860).
They had 3 (known) children:
Margaret Devlin HUNTER born 1893 Qld, died 1977 WA
Joseph Lawrence HUNTER born 1897 WA, died 1897 WA
John Croesus HUNTER born 1898 WA, died 1961 NZ
I have info on Margaret and John (Jack), and dates/burials/death notices for their parents, it is only the marriage and/or birthplace of Joseph & Mary I am seeking so I can go back further. I appreciate I may need to fork out the exhorbitant Qld BDM prices for Margaret's birth cert to find out more!
Any help gratefully received.
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I appreciate I may need to fork out the exhorbitant Qld BDM prices for Margaret's birth cert to find out more!
It is only $20.
Have you looked for am immigration record for either of them?
Debra :)
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NSW marriage 19/05/1890: https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?7
754/1890 Joseph HUNTER and Mary DEVELIN; Sydney
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:o
Blimey cupoflife, genius! Thank you so much for this!
;D
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This couple certainly moved around Australia :)
Easter special for transcriptions $18 http://nswtranscriptions.com.au
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Ooh might just have to do it. Been driving me mad, now I have to get more answers!
Thanks again! :) Happy Easter!
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This could be your fellow. From NSW BDM Indexes
Joseph HUNTER. b1863 Ref # 15650/1863, Son of Henry Hope HUNTER and Rebecca COWEN married Mudgee NSW 1856, Ref # 1679/1856.
He was one of nine children born to the couple all over NSW.
Rebecca HUNTER (cowen) died 1873 Grenfell NSW Ref # 3673/1873 She was the Daughter of Robert and Mary COWEN.
Henry Hope HUNTER died 1882 Grenfell NSW Ref # 8431/1882 He was the son of Henry H Hunter.
On the indexes there is one baptism registered to a Henry H Hunter and this was in 1839 the mother is listed as Elizabeth. I cannot seem to find any others? Rebecca's birth is not on the indexes.
Neil
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Article re the inquest for the death of Henry Hope HUNTER, died at "Seven mile" near Grenfell, 15 November 1882. Aged 53 so b abt 1829. William HUNTER, giving evidence, says that he is the eldest son of Henry and another son, Joseph HUNTER, who seems to have been living with Henry, also gives evidence.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/117579675
William HUNTER died 1941
NSW 1941 #19959, registered Grenfell
William HUNTER, parents: Henry Hope, Rebecca
Judith
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An obit for William HUNTER, aged 82, died July 1941 says he was born at Young and went to Grenfell with his parents 'over 70 years ago'. Thus b abt 1859.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/219121778
Judith
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Also, another Joseph HUNTER 15620/1863 at Young NSW
Sorry, a researcher has a death for this man at Grafton.
Essie
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There are two deaths on the indexes register to A Henry H Hunter and wife Rebecca up to 1900.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?7
Robert b1860 at Mudgee d1860 at Mudgee Ref # 4847/1860
and
Henry H b1857at Wellington d1871 at Grenfell Ref # 2998/1871
This makes William b1859 at Wellington the eldest son.
Neil
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Your original post requested parents of Joseph HUNTER and his wife Mary DEVLIN.
Summarising: (coz I'm too lazy to keep scrolling to find various pieces of info :P )
Joseph's parents:
Henry Hope HUNTER
Rebecca COWEN, died 1873 Grenfell, 1873; Daughter of Robert and Mary COWEN
Marriage, NSW, 1856, #1679, registered at Mudgee
Henry Hope HUNTER
Rebecca COWEN
Joseph HUNTER, b abt 1859-64 at Young NSW,
lived in: Grenfell 1882, Qld abt 1893, WA by 1897, d WA 1922
There are a couple of what look to be well-researched public trees which give much info re Henry Hope and Rebecca, including photos of register entries. Happy to summarise those but it would probably be better if you have a look at them yourself if you can. You should be able to access Ancestry at a public library or they sometimes have short-term free trial access offers.
Read them carefully though as there are a few discrepancies, and you would need to check carefully but there is so much info there which has good BMD and other records.
Judith
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Now for a look for Mary DEVLIN/DEVELIN. The trees do not have much info about Joseph HUNTER, only about his parents.
What we know:
Possible marriage:
754/1890 Joseph HUNTER and Mary DEVELIN; Sydney
Death: Mary HUNTER, nee DEVLIN, died 1931 WA, aged 71, (b abt 1860)
Death Notice for Mary
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/32354403
Unfortunately there are a few babies who would fit the probable date for Mary but nothing conclusive. I think that NSW marriage cert or the Qld birth of Margaret Devlin HUNTER born 1893 would help you.
Judith
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Wow very interesting stuff, thank you for your time and effort here Judith, Neil & Essie!
Yes I did buy the certificate, now to sit back and wait a couple of weeks :)
It is my maternal aunt's late husband's family. My cousins are interested in knowing more!
Fingers crossed the certificate is informative...
Happy Easter everyone x
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oh my - a tantalising wait!!!
If you were feeling flush you could get a direct download for the QLD birth certificate ;) which should give info re Joseph and his wife's marriage and their birthdates and places - but you will get better info from their marriage certificate.
Do let us know..................
Judith
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Hm I was happily exploring the Henry Hope & Rebecca HUNTER lead - the fact that the name Lawrence popped up piqued my interest - when I realised Essie's post states there was a death for this Joseph b. 1863 in Young found in Grafton. I cannot find it...
BUT there is a marriage for a Joseph HUNTER in Young in 1894 to Susan GORDON, they had 7 children in Young, and she died in 1944. This seems to fit neatly with where his brothers and one of his sisters settled (ie Grenfell area).
Ah well I will have to wait til the certificate arrives...will keep you posted! :D
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I can't see a death registered in Grafton for any Joseph HUNTER, except a Joseph Garnet G HUNTER, died 1959, parents John Charles Samuel and Elizabeth Ann.
I was going to make a comment about your Joseph marrying in Sydney, going to Qld and then finishing up in WA while the rest of the family seemed not to move far from Grenfell/Young - not that it's really significant.
I note this death:
1941 #26641, registered Young
Laurence HUNTER
Parents: Henry Hope, Rebecca
Interesting to look at headstones recorded and photographed at the Young cemetery, (link below) which may help untangle some of the complexities, especially with the use of the same forenames over generations. For example NSW BMDs show these deaths registered at Young:
Doris E HUNTER d 1906, parents Joseph and Susan
Doris HUNTER, d 1910, parents Henry H and Elizabeth
There is also a Henry Hope HUNTER, d 1951, son of William and Marion who would be at least the 3rd person of that name, and there is a person using the name as a second forename as late as 1908.
This site lists only burials with headstones, not those without.
http://austcemindex.com/?surname=hunter&cemname=Young
Some more snippets - sorry I think some of them are already posted
Obit for William HUNTER d 1941
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/117768935 and
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/219121778
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/117765276
Good luck!! Judith
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mollipops1,
John (Jack) Croesus HUNTER married my cousin-once-removed as his second wife. I have her ancestors and many of his (not her) descendants.
His first marriage was in WA but the children were all born in NZ.
Can I be any help?
Terry
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Great to hear from you, Terry!
I don't suppose you are the same Terry who responded to my message on GR??
I noticed that Jack's marriage to Alma (1958) was after the births of the children, but I'm pretty sure they were Jack's as the names match his other 2 known sons born in WA (the given and/or middle names Eric, Joseph & Basset/Baset).
In the meantime I have ordered his parents' marriage certificate and await the pdf by email.
;D
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Do you have this headstone from Billion Graves?
Terry
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Wow thanks for that Terry! :)
I received the 1890 marriage certificate of Joseph HUNTER and Mary DEVELIN by email late yesterday. So disappointed - neither party's parents are named. Nor does it it give their ages.
It does provide Joseph's occupation - plumber.
Witnesses don't appear to be related either - David WALKER & Wm SWAN. Religion: Baptist.
The only clues now are addresses. Wondering if anyone can please check electoral rolls for the period to see who else was living there?
The marriage took place at 35 SMITH STREET SURRY HILLS, SYDNEY.
Mary's address is shown as 35 Smith Street, Sydney so it appears they married at her residence.
Joseph's address is simply BOURKE STREET, SYDNEY (possibly also Surry Hills).
Fingers crossed!
N.B. Mary's surname possilbly DEVLIN, DEVELIN or D'EVELIN.
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Bump...anyone?? :(
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No conclusive sighting of Joseph in 1890.
I don't have access to any NSW electoral rolls for that time. Sands Sydney Directories have at least 2 Joseph HUNTERs, one in Lower Campbell St and one in Waverley. Neither of them has any occupation listed so who knows whether they are your chap.
However
Sydney and New South Wales, Australia, Sands Street Index,
1890
35 Smith St, John DEVLIN, Grocer
(It's not quite clear whether the suburb is Woolloomooloo or Surry Hills)
List for Bourke St Sydney in 1890 has no mention of anyone with surname HUNTER, however there are pubs and a boarding house close by,
Seems to me that the only way forward with this is to buy the Qld image for the birth of
Margaret Devlin HUNTER born 1893 Qld which should detail places of birth for parents, occupation of father and mother's maiden name. $20
Judith
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Hi Judith
Thanks for your reply! I took your advice and ordered the Qld birth of Maggie. Instant download - love those! ;D
BINGO! Joseph's birthplace is Young, NSW!
Maggie was born in Cunnamulla 28 July 1893 (had thought it was Gympie).
Father: Joseph HUNTER, manager grazing farm, aged 29 years, born Young NSW.
Mother: Mary HUNTER, formerly DEVLIN, aged 33 years, born Hill End, NSW.
Parties were married 19 May 1890, Sydney NSW (so at least I know that was right!)
Father was informant, his residence looks like 'Elenora' (the farm name?)
Very excited!!!! :D
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So Joseph is sorted, but Mary remains a mystery.
The John DEVLIN, grocer, at 35 Smith Street in 1890 can't be a coincidence, surely?
I was leaning towards the birth of Mary DEVELIN in 1857 (chr DEVLIN) in Glebe NSW, to John & Mary, as it is close to Surry Hills. But Hill End is nowhere near there (unless historically it was a different one!)
Other possible is in 1858 to John & Catherine but can't see birth reg, only church record, so no place given.
Though age at death (and birth of daughter Maggie) puts her birth c1860 - unless of course she lied about her age to make her closer to young Joseph's age!
EDIT: Found 1858 birth -
1669/1858 DEVELEN / MARY / JOHN / CATHERINE / SYDNEY
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;D
1904 - http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/106026194
Mr. John Devlin, who died recently in Sydney, was a pioneer business man at Sofala, Lower Turon, Hill End, Tambaroora, Forbes, Grenfell, and other mining rushes. His first home was on Major's Creek, where his wife established a non-sectarian Sunday school. She was once visited by Gardiner, the bushranger, who did not, however, molest her, and only laughed when she threatened him with a rusty old pistol, telling her she was too good and charitable a woman for him to injure.
Woohoo! Got him!
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14642705 - 1904
To everyone who sought to make a home west of the Blue Mountain ranges 50 years ago the State is in some measure indebted. John Devlin, notice of whose death appeared in yesterday's issue of the "Herald," was one of these early pioneers. Born over 80 years ago, in Londonderry, he went when quite a young man to Glasgow, where he married, and in 1849 sailed for Australia. His first home was at Major's Creek, where his wife, with Christian zeal, established a non-sectarian Sunday-school. Later on Mr. Devlin had businesses of various kinds at Sofala, Lower Turon, Hill End, Tambaroora, Forbes, Grenfell, and other digging townships. One of his ventures was to erect a general store at Condobolin, then a township of surveyors' pegs.
The bushranger Gardiner paid a visit to his establishment. Mr. Devlin was away at Bathurst when Gardiner came in, but Mrs. Devlin, when she realised who the visitor was, seized a rusty old pistol, and ordered him out. The bushranger smiled, and told her not to excite herself, as she was too well known as a good, charitable woman for him to rob her. He made a few purchases, and went away. Late in life Mr. Devlin was in business in Sydney, but he failed to achieve success. Three daughters survive him, namely, Mrs. D. H. Walker, well known in connection with rescue work in Sydney; Mrs. W. Swann, wife of a Public school teacher at Parramatta; and Mrs. Hunter, now in Western Australia.
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Probably his death Notice
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14633244
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/163986882
Unfortunately no family mentioned but gives his age as 83 thus b abt 1821.
Possibly John DEVLIN's arrival
From http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchhits.aspx?table=Assisted%20Immigrants&ID=9&query=devlin&frm=0
Arrived per ship Waverley, 22 December, 1848 to Sydney from Plymouth
John DEVLIN, 26, and wife
Reel 2135, [4/4786] Page 224; Reel 2458, [4/4906]
Passenger list for this ship gives further information
John DEVLIN, 26, blacksmith
Native Place: Londonderry, Donegal
Parents: Patrick and Elizabeth, living in Donegal
Baptist, can read and write, good health, no relations in the colony
The information on the next passenger:
Margaret DEVLIN, 25, house servant,
Native place: Glasgow
Parents: Andrew and Isabella McKIE; father living in Glasgow
Baptist, can read, good health, no relations in the colony.
Margaret is listed as 'wife' on another list. Some coincidences with information already found:
1. Both give their religion as Baptist which was not common (and was the religion for the marriage of Joseph and Mary in 1890).
2. Joseph and Mary's daughter was named Margaret - it's common among Scots to name the daughter after a grandmother. However, I stress these are only possibilities.
There is a death for this Margaret DEVLIN - unfotunately TROVE doesn't have a mention of this death.
NSW 1894 #1072, registered Sydney
Margaret DEVLIN
Parents: Andrew, Isabella
Arrival of the Waverley with 159 immigrants
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28647905
Judith
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Brilliant, thanks Judith!
I found the 1894 death this morning, and confirmed it from memorium notices from daughter Isabella (another grandmother naming!)
What is weird is no trace of births to them as Devlin in NSW for the 3 daughters (Elizabeth, Isabella and Mary).
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Found the marriage of John & Margaret (as McKAY) in Glasgow in Feb 1848 on Scotlands People.
Couldn't see her parents marriage but possible for father in Glasgow in 1851 Census shows his birthplace as Ireland.
Progress :)
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Seems to me that this is a good birth match for Mary DEVLIN, given that her father had a business there and that her birthplace is given as Hill End which is ony 4.5k away.
NSW 1856 #7982 registered at TAMBAROORA
Mary A DEVLIN
Parents: John, Margaret
Possibly Isabella:
NSW 178/1848 V1848178 59
Isobella (sic) DEVLIN
Parents: John, Margaret.
FamilySearch has this:
Isabella DEVLIN
Christening Place St. James, Cumberland, New South Wales, Australia
Birth Date and Place: 11 Mar 1848, New South Wales, Australia
Parents: John Devlin, Margaret
Not sure about the date unless it's been copied incorrectly or perhaps Isabella may have been born at sea or before they left and was registered and baptised in NSW. :-\ I didn't look at the whole shipping list to see if there were any births on board.
Judith
Just adding the In Memoriam reference in case anyone else is looking
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14061226
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Excellent obit with lots of info for Elizabeth SWANN (nee DEVLIN), died 1940 aged 86 - born at Sofala in 1854. Interesting to note that Elizabeth and her husband William SWANN bought and renovated historic Elizabeth Farm House in North Parramatta, thus saving it from dereliction.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/106207087
Can't see a birth registration for her though.
Judith
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Thanks Judith! Yes the SWANN family are very interesting. They had 9 daughters and 2 sons and from what I can find, none of the daughters married - all were teachers (like their father). From what I have read, the house was pretty much derelict when William bought it and considered worthless, so he only paid land value.
He died not long after but his wife and daughters all lived their lives out at Elizabeth Farm and it was sold to the National Trust in the 1960s. It is now a tourist attraction.
That birth looks interesting. If she was born in 1856 she definitely lied about her age!
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Possibly Isabella:
NSW 178/1848 V1848178 59
Isobella (sic) DEVLIN
Parents: John, Margaret.
FamilySearch has this:
Isabella DEVLIN
Christening Place St. James, Cumberland, New South Wales, Australia
Birth Date and Place: 11 Mar 1848, New South Wales, Australia
Parents: John Devlin, Margaret
Not sure about the date unless it's been copied incorrectly or perhaps Isabella may have been born at sea or before they left and was registered and baptised in NSW. :-\ I didn't look at the whole shipping list to see if there were any births on board.
Judith
Just realised they did not arrive in NSW until Dec 1848 :( though she did marry in 1868 so agewise that does fit. Odd. (If she was born in Scotland in March 1848, it was a month after her parents married!)
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NSW ER 1878 THE LACHLAN
In the Grenfell Police District. NO others listed with that surname.
Henry Hope HUNTER, free hold, Seven-mile.
Grevilles PO Directory 1875
GRENFELL
Henry H HUNTER, blacksmith, Church Hill.
Cheers, JM
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I thought you might like some information regarding Rebecca Hunter nee "Cowen". She was the only child of Robert Abraham Cohen and Mary Daly. I have been unable to find out what happened to Mary Daly but Robert went on to marry Margaret Kidd at Scots Church Sydney. They had 5 children. Robert moved around a bit corresponding with some of the places mentioned in the above posts, Young and Wellington but finally settled in Mudgee where he opened a hairdressing business. The Cohens were very well known in Mudgee with one of Rebecca's half brothers Lawrence been mayor and another George Henry establishing the Mudgee Guardian newspaper which is still operating today. Robert was a convict sentence to 14 years and arrived in the colony in 1821 aboard the Grenada2. His crime was passing false banknotes. You can find records in the Old Bailey London archives. Robert was Jewish and he is the only Jewish headstone in Mudgee Cemetery.
Interesting that Rebecca changed the spelling of her name at some time.
BTW Robert Abraham Cohen was my Great Great Grandfather.
Cheers Jane
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John Devlin had a daughter, "Mrs W. Swann".
Is this her?
http://sydneylivingmuseums.com.au/stories/if-these-walls-could-talk-spring-2014
https://explorerstree.com/2016/06/23/from-bowning-to-elizabeth-farm-parramatta-nsw/
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/longworth-isabel-frances-10859
Terry
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Yes, it is her. Look at this.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/106207087
Terry