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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: v i c k y on Tuesday 19 July 05 13:50 BST (UK)
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I found out today that my g-g-g-grandfather was from Hannover. I don't know if it was the province of Hannover (now Lower Saxony), or the town of Hannover, but I wondered if anyone here can help me find out about his life in Germany. It would be great to know when and where exactly he was born, the name of his mother and any siblings (I already know that his father was also called John Westerman) and what made him move to England and when.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I can't visit Kew at the moment. I couldn't find him when I searched the National Archives site. I have him traced on the 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses (or is it censes?!) and I know when he was married (have got the certificate) and when he died. I don't have the death certificate, though.
Thank you.
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:D :D :D
Do you know if he obtained Naturalisation - if so, the records are held at Kew (you will have to go youself or else get someone else to), and they will more than likely show the name of his town/village in Hansestadt (main City) Hannover, Germany
:D :D :D
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Hi, thanks for replying so quickly. :)
I'm afraid I don't know. On the 1851 and 1881 censuses, he was listed as a British Subject (in 1861 and 1871, he was said to have been born in Bristol and Guernsey respectively). Sorry if it's a stupid question, but how could I find out if he obtained Naturalisation? Like I said, I can't get to Kew at the moment - probably not even this year. Would contacting the Anglo-German FHS help at all?
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:D :D
Sorry, I'm a bit confused - do you know for sure if he 'was from Hannover', and do you suspect Bristol & Guernsey to be perhaps red herrings, due to the political climate ?
:D :D
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This is all I know about my g-g-g-grandfather, John Westerman:
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The following is from the 1851 census for St. Paul, Bristol:
Westerman John, 33, sugar baker, born Hanover BS
Westerman Caroline, 29, laundress, born St. James
Westerman Henry, 4 months, born St. Paul
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The following is from the 1861 census for St. Barnabus, Bristol:
Westerman John, 1816, Bristol, Labourer
Westerman Caroline, 1824,Bristol
Westerman Henry, 1851, Bristol
Westerman Frederick, 1853, Bristol
Westerman Caroline, 1855, Bristol
Westerman Ellen, 1857, Bristol
Westerman Frank, 1859, Bristol
Westerman James, 1860, Bristol
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The following is from the 1871 census for St. Barnabus, Bristol:
John Westerman, 1819, Guernsey, Channel Island, Sugar Refiner
Caroline, 1825, Bristol
Henry John, 1851, Bristol
Frederick, 1853, Bristol
Caroline, 1855, Bristol, Book Binder
Frank, 1859, Bristol
James, 1862, Bristol
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The following is from the 1881 census for St James & St Paul Out, Bristol:
Dwelling: 79 Grosvenor Rd
William George BARRINGTON M 27 M Bristol, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Letter Carrier In Hall P O
Caroline BARRINGTON M 26 F Bristol, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
Caroline Edith BARRINGTON 4 F Bristol, Gloucester, England
Rel: Dau
Nellie BARRINGTON 3 F Bristol, Gloucester, England
Rel: Dau
Lepold Authorn BARRINGTON 1 M Bristol, Gloucester, England
Rel: Son
John WESTERMAN W 63 M (BS), Germany
Rel: Father
Occ: Labourer In Sugar Factory (Refiner)
James WESTERMAN U 20 M Bristol, Gloucester, England
Rel: Brother
Occ: Labourer In Sugar Factory
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I know that he married Caroline Long on 12 December 1848 in Bristol. I believe he died in 1889, aged 67.
Hope this clears up any confusion. :)
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;D ;D
From his profession Sugar Maker it definitely sounds like John (or Johann) was German by birth (many 'Sugar Boilers' as they were called, came over to England at the time) - the Bristol and Guernsey entries were probaby either mistakes or made in order to appear 'English'.
As he is shown as a British Citizen, it's probable the record of his Citizenship is at Kew.
That's all I can suggest I'm afraid
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:D :D :D
I've just remembered - you could try the Anglo-German Family History Society they are very helpful with questions of this sort.
http://www.art-science.com/agfhs/
Happy hunting !!
:D :D :D
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No need to apologise. Thank you very much for your interest and advice. Will certainly try the Anglo-German FHS. I'll have to get down to Kew one of these days... :)
Best wishes,
Vicky
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:D :D
Just as a matter of interest, and nothing to do with the subject, I see you are researching TURNER - mine were from Gorton, Manchester (see my website below) and I wondered if there was perhaps a connection
:D :D
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:D :D
I've just seen that MTRIGBY is probably going to Kew next week, and, no doubt, will do a 'look-up' for you - click on the link below
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,53250.from1121792563/topicseen.html#msg307453
:D :D
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Lovely site, thanks for letting me know about it. :) No connection as far as I'm aware, but I've a lot of work to do on the Turner's, so maybe I'll find a connection to Manchester someday. Thanks also for the link. Looks like MTRIGBY is already bogged down with it all, but maybe someone who's not so busy could help me with that some other time. That would be wonderful. I'm stuck in bed with chickenpox at the moment, so a trip to Kew is out of the question for a while! I should definitely get my backside there one of these days. ;D
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Hi Vicky,
if your stuck at home anyway, then why not try my "rainy day tip" ( http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,11860.msg75149.html#msg75149 )
entering westermann (most likely still 2 n's in Germany) brings up loads of them (Johann Westermann finds 54)
I didn't try geneanet, but, who knows, you could strike lucky !
this site might also be useful for locations:
http://gov.genealogy.net/index.jsp (a german gazetteer)
Good luck ! and "Gute Besserung !" (get well soon)
Bob
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:D :D
Oh Vicky!
How awful that you have chicken pox - I know all about it - I too had it as an adult and was really ill for weeks. And then last year, I contracted Shingles (or Herpes Zoster) which is the virus left over from chickenpox, and it took me nearly 6 months to get right, would you believe ?. Anyway, I'm sure you will soon be on the mend........
I'm glad to see that Berlin Bob has contributed to this topic - he'll be able to tell you all you need to know about German ancestry, as he says, your ancestor's names were probably Johann and Westermann - so happy hunting !!
:D :D
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Thank you both. Have had a look at http://gedbas.genealogy.net/index.jsp but we don't know enough about our German ancestor for the other names to mean anything to us just now. Will definitely bookmark it, though. :)
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Hi Vicky
Just thought you might be interested in a bit of filler!!!
http://www.mawer.clara.net/history.html
Annie :D
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Thank you, Annie. Very interesting indeed. My g-g-g-grandfather (John Westerman) is listed in the database, along with his son (James). And I think the 'Bristol' Paul Long is either my g-g-g-g-grandfather or my g-g-g-g-g-grandfather, which means my German ancestors were from Hannover and Prussia. :)