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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: AncesStory on Saturday 09 April 16 23:55 BST (UK)
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Looking for help in researching Duncan Robertson, born about 1803 in Kirkmichael, Perthshire, according to 1841, 1861 and 1871 census. I have been unable to locate his death certificate on SP. I have been trying to go back a generation on this Robertson line, and have hit a brick wall.
Duncan Robertson and his spouse Betty Stewart and their 6 known children lived in the Strathardle area of Perthshire , settling in “Persie” by 1861. Researching other Robertsons in the area who may have been related has been difficult as the records seem to be dispersed among three different administrative units - Kirkmichael parish, Perthshire, Alyth, Angus, and Persie, Perthshire.
Known records:
Baptism of children of Duncan Robertson and Betty Stewart from Kirkmichael Parish Records, 1825-1838.
1. Jean Robertson: birth: 16 Sep 1825; christening: 17 Sep 1825 Kirkmichael, Perthshire
2. Christina Robertson: Birth, 2 December 1827; baptism 6 Dec 1827, Cultalonies, Kirkmichael, Perthshire
3. James Cameron Robertson: Birth 7 March 1830;Baptism 08 Mar 1830, Pitcarmick, Kirkmichael,Perthshire
4. Grace Robertson: Birth 20 Oct 1832 baptism 26 Oct 1832 Kirkmichael, Perthshire
5. Anne Robertson: birth: 22 June 1835; Christening, 27 Jul 1835. Kirkmichael, Perthshire
6. Peter Robertson: birth: 19 APR 1838, baptism 29 Apr 1838, Kirkmichael, Perth. (1841 noted as Alyth, Perthshire)
1841 Census: Duncan Robertson, age 35, born c 1806 OUTSIDE COUNTY. Address: "Duney" (Dounie) Alyth, Angus Occupation Shoemaker. Parish: Alyth 328a; ED: 1; Page: 5; Line: 901; Year: 1841
1851?
1861: Duncan Robertson age 57 b 1803 Kirkmichael, Perthshire. Widower. Occupation: Ag labourer. Address: Dalnag. Parish: Persie 386b; ED: 1; Page: 3; Line: 24; 1861
1871: Duncan Robertson ; head of household; age 68, b 1803 Kirkmichael, Perthshire. Widower. Address: Dalnoid (Blacklunans) Parish: Persie 386b; ED: 2; Page: 1; Line: 8; Roll: CSSCT1871_67
Death record: not found. Tried Persie post 1871 on SP.
His son James Cameron Robertson became a stone mason. May be related to a Charles Robertson, mason from Strathardle area.
Thanks all.
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My 1st thought would be...if you can't find a death in the last area he lived on the census, could he have relocated to one of his children's homes elsewhere.
Do you have the death cert. for Betty, where did she die & who was the informant? Sometimes if the informant doesn't live locally it will give a place of residence.
Annie
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I have not found information about daughters Jean and Grace following their births. Anne (unmarried) had a daughter Betsy Margaret in Persie 1860. Christian (Christina) married James McKenzie of Craighead, Glenisla.
I have not found their father, Duncan's death record in Maryton, Montrose (where Christina lived) or in Rattray, Perthshire. where his son James Cameron Robertson lived. Grace and Jean may have married, and their surname may have changed which makes locating them more difficult.
Death record for Duncan's wife Betty Robertson nee Stewart does not appear on SP under Kirkmichael, Perthshire following the 1841 census, or from 1861 Persie, Perth, where the Robertsons were living 1861-1871?
Have been unable to find Duncan Robertson and son Peter, daughter Ann and wife Betty in 1851 census. At least I would know if Betty was still alive by 1851.....
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Just an observation ...
I notice that Duncan is a shoemaker in 1841 but by 1861 is an ag lab. What occupation does he have in 1871? It seems a bit odd, though not impossible, that he would go from shoemaker to ag lab - wouldn't shoemaker be a better occupation for which he would have served an apprenticeship.
So, I am wondering if you have family living with Duncan so you can be sure you have the right/same Duncan in all censuses ....
It would be well worth trying to find him in 1851. What resources have you used to try to locate him? I know some pay sites only have indexes and there are some bad mistranscriptions on there so this may be why you can't find him.
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I also noticed that in the 1841 census another thing I thought strange there is only one member of the family there Peter ...Have you located the rest of the family ..Have you tried searching for Duncan's death in all areas rather than Persie Perthsire ...If Betty died between 1851 -1855 there wont be a death on S P
Rosie
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Wonder if this is the Duncan Robertson shoemaker that you have in the 1841 census
Duncan Robertson age 46 widower shoemaker ( master ) birth place Killin Perth
Address Harriot Row Kirkintilloch Dumbartonshire you can see this on www.freecen
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That looks a good fit Rosie
Annie
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Wonder if this is the Duncan Robertson shoemaker that you have in the 1841 census
Duncan Robertson age 46 widower shoemaker ( master ) birth place Killin Perth
Address Harriot Row Kirkintilloch Dumbartonshire you can see this on www.freecen
Thank you for posting on this - I did consider this Duncan Robertson, shoemaker, but excluded him from my research, since this Duncan Robertson you mention was living at the same address in Harriot Row ten years earlier, in 1841, with a Janet Forsyth.
The Duncan Robertson I am researching cannot be this Duncan Robertson living in Harriot Row, Kirkintilloch, Dunbartonshire in 1841 and 1851, since the one I am researching is noted as living in Duney, Alyth, Angus (parish 328A) in 1841, with Betty Robertson [presumed spouse ie nee Stewart] and children Anne, and Peter. All of Duncan and Betty’s children were born in Kirkmichael, Perthshire, except the youngest, Peter, who was born in Alyth.
To show the area of Dounie, considered Alyth, “Angus” in 1841, see these sources:
1867 OS 6 inch 1st edn PER & CLA XXXIII
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/record/rcahms/158401/dounie-cottage-blacklunans/rcahms
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/forfarshire-angus-os-name-books-1857-1861/forfar-angus-volume-46/83
Although I cannot find Duncan on the 1851 census returns, Duncan Robertson was living in Dunag, and Dalnoid, Persie in 1861 and 1871.Dalnoid, east of the Black Water, is only a few miles north east of Dounie, where this Robertson family lived in 1841. A review of this map will show the geographical proximity of all three census returns 1841, 1861 and 1871.
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/record/rcahms/29533/dalnoid/rcahms
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Does the marriage certificate(1857 Glenisla Angus ?) of Christian Robertson and James McKenzie indicate that both her parents are still alive ?
The 1871 Census does look like your Duncan age 68 , living with daughter Ann age 35 , with birthplace given for both as Kirkmichael Perthshire.
ev
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Could this be Duncan remarried?
Freecen (1851)
Piece: SCT1851/346 Place: Dull -Perth Enumeration District: 7
Civil Parish: Dull Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Dull
Folio: 0 Page: 8 Schedule: 30
Address: Tomnagaoe
Annie
ADDED....Not sure about place name Tomnagaoe, probably a transcription error?
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This chap is very hard to find ??? and that rules him out in the 1851 census have you checked him out in the Valuation Rolls ...
Rosie
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Great point ev! I forgot to check that record - Christina's parents are both alive in Nov 1857 - she was living at Inverharity, Glenisla. Her father is Duncan Robertson, agricultural labourer, and mother Betty Robertson, nee Stewart. It seems his occupation changed from shoemaker, while in Alyth,1841, and his daughter, Christina's marriage in 1857.
I have searched the Glenisla and Kirkmichael records for Duncan and Betty in 1851 to no avail, but will try the areas surrounding the "Persie" area where he is found in 1861 and 1871. Duncan would be age 45/50 in 1851, as would his wife Betty. Daughter Anne would be 15, and son Peter, 12.
Betty died between November 1857 and the 1861 census it seems.
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Did James Cameron Robertson marry Margaret Wallace in 1860 Kirkmichael Perth(shire) ?
Might be worth a look at the parent details on that :-\
In 1851 there is a Peter Robertson 13(born Alyth , Perthshire) visitor to a couple Charles Duncan and Grace(Robertson ?) at Glenisla Angus , not sure if you have looked at that ?
There are a few references that could be worth checking -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTVG-5PT
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYJH-38B
ev
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Did James Cameron Robertson marry Margaret Wallace in 1860 Kirkmichael Perth(shire) ?
In 1851 there is a Peter Robertson 13 (born Alyth , Perthshire) visitor to a couple Charles Duncan and Grace(Robertson ?) at Glenisla Angus , not sure if you have looked at that ?
ev
Thanks ev
Peter Robertson
I did see the 1851 census return for Peter Robertson living with the Duncans at Linns, Glenisla - believe it or not, I have a family connection to the Duncans via my husband's McKenzie line. I thought this may be the correct return for Peter Robertson in 1851, since his sister was working in Angus - Inverarity - by 1857 when she was married. At first I thought that Grace Robertson, (wife of Charles Duncan, gamekeeper), was Peter’s older sister, born Kirkmichael 1832. However, she is not, since her parents were Betsy Robertson (M.S.Robertson, born Kirkmichael about 1801) and John Robertson, a farmer, from Auchnavan,Glenisla (Birth Bovember 1790, Glenisla, Angus; Death OCT 17 1884, Craig farm, Glenisla, Angus). There is an interesting article about John Robertson from Craig farm, Glenisla:
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=BH18850106.2.11
Grace Robertson, (married to Charles Duncan) was born in Glenisla, 1830, and died 31 March 1880 at Linns, Glenisla. It may be that her mother Betsy Robertson was related to Duncan Robertson in some way, perhaps a sibling? Peter Robertson is noted as a visitor rather than direct blood relative. John Robertson is supposedly a direct lineal descendant of Robertson od Straloch, Glenshee. Still trying to find death or marriage records for Peter’s siblings Grace and Anne............
James Cameron Robertson
1841 - possibly the Jas. Robertson, male servant, age 11, at stable loft, Pitcarmick farm, Kirkmichael, Perthshire. James Cameron Robertson was born at Pitcarmick, Kirkmichael.
The marriage of James Cameron Robertson to Margaret Wallace is correct. Her father was a mason, and James was living with the Wallace family according to the 1861 census at Blackwater Road, Barnside Of Downie, Kirkmichael , Perthshire (370/1), occupation Stone Mason.
1871: Brewhillock, Persie,(386B) Perthshire in 1871; occupation Mason (journeyman) Head of household. Married.
1881: Address: Blackhall, Persie, Perthshire (386b) ; occupation: Mason . Head of household. Married.
1891: Address: Doigs Land Rattray, Perthshire (390); occupation: Mason . Widower.
James Cameron Robertson died Rattray, 16 Apr 1894 and spouse Margaret Wallace died Oct 29 1890. As Cameron is his middle name, perhaps Duncan Robertson’s mother was a Cameron, or Betty Stewart’s mother?
Also checking out Valuation rolls, 1855 for Duncan Robertson, Perthshire - 50 in all.