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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: Lexi73 on Friday 15 April 16 09:44 BST (UK)
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Dear All,
Sorry, it's me again. I recently posted a couple of threads to find out more about my Bedfordshire Lightfoot ancestors, and some of the answers have raised a couple of doubts as to the origins of one of them, James Lightfoot.
I had always thought he was born/baptised in Luton in 1762, to William Lightfoot and Sarah Heydon. But then James marries Sharnbrook-born Jenny Crutchley in Goldington in 1790, has at least one daughter in Oakley in 1791 and has more children (John, Elizabeth, Alice, Joseph Crutchley and Thomas) in Clapham between 1801 and 1811. So the Luton link becomes a bit iffy - though still not impossible. Who knows where work was to be found in those days, right?
He marries in 1790 so I guess he would have been born some time in the (possibly late) 1760s, right? Or was he married before?
Is there anyone with access to information yet unknown to me that could help me figure out who James's parents (and siblings) were? One clue as to what his parents' names could be would be to find out if there were any more children between 1791 (Mary, named after Jenny's mother) and 1801 (John, no clue who he was named after, but there is space between 1791 and 1801 for 3-4 more children named after James's parents and Jenny's dad Henry). I would assume either in Oakley or Clapham, if they didn't move any more.
Any help is welcome, since I can't hop on a plane to check out records in Clapham and surrounding areas as I live too far away.
THANKS HEAPS in advance!
Regards,
Lexi.
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Interestingly in 1851 census living in Great Raveley, Hunts is a John Lightfoot aged 74 born Clapham with wife Elizabeth aged 72 born Bromham, along with 13 year olf grandson James. This pair married 17 Oct 1803 in Bromham, she was Elizabeth West & the transcript says he's from Gt.Raveley. They are there in 1841 & next door is Thomas & Mary Lightfoot both aged 20 & children James 3 & Frederick age 1. John dies 1855 age 80 in GR after Elizabeth dies there in 1853 age 76.
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This will involve a lot of spadework.
As Lightfoot is not a common name, I'd try to fit Lightfoots on the IGI into family groups, parish by parish, which shouldn't be too onerous a task. You can use the free index on FindMyPast to access burials on the NBI at http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_deaths-and-burials?_ga=1.20580016.986418603.1377269437.
The first Lightfoot in Clapham on the IGI is the marriage of Elizabeth in 1795. Might she have been a sister of James? Sometimes the only way to move backwards is by researching laterally.
I'd also go through all Lightfoots on the BARS online catalogue at http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/search/advanced . Whilst there are 221 hits, you can sort them by date, and skip through those before 1700.
I share your misgivings about the 10 year gap between 1791 and 1801, particularly given the Muster List entry.
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Interestingly in 1851 census living in Great Raveley, Hunts is a John Lightfoot aged 74 born Clapham with wife Elizabeth aged 72 born Bromham, along with 13 year olf grandson James. This pair married 17 Oct 1803 in Bromham, she was Elizabeth West & the transcript says he's from Gt.Raveley. They are there in 1841 & next door is Thomas & Mary Lightfoot both aged 20 & children James 3 & Frederick age 1. John dies 1855 age 80 in GR after Elizabeth dies there in 1853 age 76.
One would almost be inclined to think that this John is a relation of my James, a brother or a cousin perhaps. My James seems to have died in Clapham in 1841, unfortunately before the census...
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This will involve a lot of spadework.
As Lightfoot is not a common name, I'd try to fit Lightfoots on the IGI into family groups, parish by parish, which shouldn't be too onerous a task. You can use the free index on FindMyPast to access burials on the NBI at http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_deaths-and-burials?_ga=1.20580016.986418603.1377269437.
The first Lightfoot in Clapham on the IGI is the marriage of Elizabeth in 1795. Might she have been a sister of James? Sometimes the only way to move backwards is by researching laterally.
I'd also go through all Lightfoots on the BARS online catalogue at http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/search/advanced . Whilst there are 221 hits, you can sort them by date, and skip through those before 1700.
I share your misgivings about the 10 year gap between 1791 and 1801, particularly given the Muster List entry.
Thanks for those tips, John, will try them once I am back home at my computer!
I am more than glad I'm researching the Lightfoots and not the Smiths, I can tell you that! Thank heavens for uncommon names!
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Jane Lightfoot married Thomas Matthews on 13 Oct 1815 in Clapham (needs checking - an IGI member submission). In 1851 they're still living in Clapham, Jane age 53 born Ireland.
Might explain where James was between 1791 and 1801.
Are there any other Lightfoots in Beds in 1851 with a birthplace of Ireland?
David
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Jane Lightfoot married Thomas Matthews on 13 Oct 1815 in Clapham (needs checking - an IGI member submission). In 1851 they're still living in Clapham, Jane age 53 born Ireland.
Might explain where James was between 1791 and 1801.
Are there any other Lightfoots in Beds in 1851 with a birthplace of Ireland?
Wow John, that's opening a whole new can of worms! Ireland?!
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This will involve a lot of spadework.
As Lightfoot is not a common name, I'd try to fit Lightfoots on the IGI into family groups, parish by parish, which shouldn't be too onerous a task. You can use the free index on FindMyPast to access burials on the NBI at http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-united-kingdom-records-in-birth-marriage-death-and-parish-records/and_deaths-and-burials?_ga=1.20580016.986418603.1377269437.
The first Lightfoot in Clapham on the IGI is the marriage of Elizabeth in 1795. Might she have been a sister of James? Sometimes the only way to move backwards is by researching laterally.
I'd also go through all Lightfoots on the BARS online catalogue at http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/search/advanced . Whilst there are 221 hits, you can sort them by date, and skip through those before 1700.
I share your misgivings about the 10 year gap between 1791 and 1801, particularly given the Muster List entry.
Didn't have the patience to wait until I got home so checked out those IGIs for Clapham. Found three possible siblings for James there: Mary who marries 1788, Jane who marries 1802 and John who marries 1803. He's the one that lives in Hunts in the 1851 census. Somehow the Elizabeth marrying in 1795 doesn't come up in my results, will try tweaking my search parameters.
The 1815 marriage for Jane could be for a daughter of James, his daughter Mary marries in 1818 so that would make sense.
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Incidentally, on checking my family tree, it turns out that James's son Joseph had his first child in Clapham too. Maybe the others too (there were seven before first his wife died), but they ended up in Milton Ernest in the 1840s.
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Looking at member submissions for Lightfoot in Clapham, there are a couple of other marriages which don't appear on the extracted part of the IGI.
I suspect that these may have got caught in the LDS's misguided clean-up of the IGI some years ago when it was one database, and the LDS deleted a number of entries which were identical to other entries. Very commendable, except that in their wisdom they only
deleted the extracted entry leaving just the member submission, which as we all know, can vary in quality between well researched and pure fiction!
Reference to the transcript is needed to confirm their veracity.
David
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An old message board post gives Jane's 1798 birthplace as Trim, Meath, Ireland. But as the poster didn't know her parents and there's no source, I don't know how the poster knew this. Perhaps Trim was an army base?
David
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An old message board post gives Jane's 1798 birthplace as Trim, Meath, Ireland. But as the poster didn't know her parents and there's no source, I don't know how the poster knew this. Perhaps Trim was an army base?
David
Was it you that directed me towards James being in the Militia?
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Was it you that directed me towards James being in the Militia?
No, that was John
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Have so far found in Clapham:
Mary Lightfoot (abt 1767) x Benjamin Noble (m 1788)
Elizabeth Lightfoot x Joseph Wickins (m 1795)
Jane Lightfoot x Thomas Field (m 1802)
John Lightfoot (abt 1777) x Elizabeth West (m 1803)
Ann Lightfoot x Thomas Cradock (m 1803)
And then there's James Craddock from Clapham marrying Jenny/Jane Crutchley in Gouldington in 1790.
Are they all siblings? Is there any way I could find out?
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An old message board post gives Jane's 1798 birthplace as Trim, Meath, Ireland. But as the poster didn't know her parents and there's no source, I don't know how the poster knew this. Perhaps Trim was an army base?
David
the Trim info comes from the 1861 census...
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Have so far found in Clapham:
Mary Lightfoot (abt 1767) x Benjamin Noble (m 1788)
Elizabeth Lightfoot x Joseph Wickins (m 1795)
Jane Lightfoot x Thomas Field (m 1802)
John Lightfoot (abt 1777) x Elizabeth West (m 1803)
Ann Lightfoot x Thomas Cradock (m 1803)
And then there's James Craddock from Clapham marrying Jenny/Jane Crutchley in Gouldington in 1790.
Are they all siblings? Is there any way I could find out?
Could get the witnesses at each of these marriages to see if they are other related Lightfoot's. Need to be at Bedford Archives to do this. You could always email them
John
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I'm inclined to purchase the CD with all Clapham parish records on it. Though that would't give me witnesses, it would provide info about James and his siblings and parents. And it'll be cheaper than travelling to the Bedford Archives myself ;)
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How would it provide information about James' parents?
Even cheaper would be to order and view the microfilm of Clapham parish register at your nearest LDS Family History Centre
David
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How would it provide information about James' parents?
Even cheaper would be to order and view the microfilm of Clapham parish register at your nearest LDS Family History Centre
David
Haha no that would be even more difficult from where I live. I bought the CD for Harrold and that had parents' information with the baptisms. I live in hope :-)
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There are plenty of LDS Family History Centres in France. There's even one in Carcassonne where I live
If a baptism isn't on the IGI it won't be on a CD or transcript published by Beds FHS
David
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From the Bedfordshire Surnames Index CD available from Beds FHS (being derived from each of their parish CDs) there is no James/Jas Lightfoot baptism that fits your timeframe - apart from what we've heard of already, ie. 1762 at Luton which I've dismissed as his burial in Clapham in 1841 aged 71 makes him born 1770.
Maybe he was born outside Bedfordshire
Cheers John
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Have so far found in Clapham:
Mary Lightfoot (abt 1767) x Benjamin Noble (m 1788)
Benjamin Noble was of Oakley when he married Mary Lightfoot at Clapham in 1788.
I have it that wife Mary Noble was buried Oakley in 1791
Widower Benjamin Noble then married Elizabeth Boddington at Oakley in July 1792
Their first child named Mary baptised 23/9/1793.....
She married Richard Partridge on 3 June 1818 at Bletsoe......
He's my paternal great-great-grandfather.....
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Have so far found in Clapham:
Mary Lightfoot (abt 1767) x Benjamin Noble (m 1788)
Benjamin Noble was of Oakley when he married Mary Lightfoot at Clapham in 1788.
I have it that wife Mary Noble was buried Oakley in 1792
Widower Benjamin Noble then married Elizabeth Boddington at Oakley in July 1792
Their first child named Mary baptised 23/9/1793.....
She married Richard Partridge on 3 June 1818 at Bletsoe......
He's my paternal great-great-grandfather.....
Small world!
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Cracked it!
If you check the IGI, John and Elizabeth FOOT baptised a number of children in Clapham 1770-82. The names match up with the various LIGHTFOOT marriages in Clapham 1795 onwards.
It looks as though James FOOT baptised 28 Jan 1770 in Clapham is the one you're looking for. In fact I see that this James and Jenny actually baptised a son John FOOT on 5 Apr 1801 in Clapham, notwithstanding all their other children were LIGHTFOOT
David
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Good find David.... The Beds FHS Surnames CD does not list the 1801 baptism of John under Lightfoot, but does list it under Foot. Wonder what the original marriage register says.
The Foot baptisms at Clapham are William 1767, John 1768, James 1770, William 1772, Elizabeth 1775, John 1777, Jane 1778, Ann 1782 & John 1801. Without reference to Clapham PR (or the IGI) I don't know the parents. With multiple Johns & no burials I suspect different families.
There's also burial of William Foot of Clapham at Oakley in 1767
Also a marriage of John Foot of Clapham at Kempston in 1762
Plus baptism of Thomas Foot at Oakley in 1764
Cheers John
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John and Elizabeth Foot may have come from Oakley, Beds. There's a baptism of a Thomas Foot in Oakley in Jan 1764, and BARS has a settlement Certificate from Oakley to Clapham for John and Elizabeth Foot dated 13 Jul 1763 (http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/Details/archive/110194720 )
David
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Waaaaahhhhh how does that work then?! I now have to check out a whole different surname!
This IS a great find though, thanks a LOT for that, gentlemen!
I'd better have a look at the FOOT family instead then.
Could the 1801 John not be the son of James and Jenny, by the way?
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But just to add, so you have no doubts, this news makes me very, VERY happy!
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The Foot baptisms at Clapham are William 1767, John 1768, James 1770, William 1772, Elizabeth 1775, John 1777, Jane 1778, Ann 1782 & John 1801. Without reference to Clapham PR (or the IGI) I don't know the parents. With multiple Johns & no burials I suspect different families.
No Mary at all?
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Could the 1801 John not be the son of James and Jenny, by the way?
??? That's what I said it was!
Hope you have more success finding the marriage of John Foot and Elizabeth than I've had!
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Could the 1801 John not be the son of James and Jenny, by the way?
??? That's what I said it was!
Hope you have more success finding the marriage of John Foot and Elizabeth than I've had!
Sorry, didn't read properly :( Was trying to figure things out from my phone instead of my computer, and a mini screen is so much less readable!
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Have so far found in Clapham:
Mary Lightfoot (abt 1767) x Benjamin Noble (m 1788)
Benjamin Noble was of Oakley when he married Mary Lightfoot at Clapham in 1788.
I have it that wife Mary Noble was buried Oakley in 1791
Widower Benjamin Noble then married Elizabeth Boddington at Oakley in July 1792
Their first child named Mary baptised 23/9/1793.....
She married Richard Partridge on 3 June 1818 at Bletsoe......
He's my paternal great-great-grandfather.....
You wouldn't happen to know any more about Mary, would you? Is she also one of the Foot-changed-to-Lightfoot children?
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I suspect that Mary is another daughter of John and Elizabeth Foot, who seem to have married in 1763 or before. Without a baptism I can't prove it though. Who were the witnesses to her marriage?
David
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Now you've got me intrigued!
My best man was a Lightfoot, from Bromham, which is where JohnP and I lived as teenagers, next door to Oakley and Clapham.
Is he descended from this same Lightfoot/Foot family? Must take a look. Bizarre that his nickname was Foot when we worked together in Bedford.
David
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Now you've got me intrigued!
My best man was a Lightfoot, from Bromham, which is where JohnP and I lived as teenagers, next door to Oakley and Clapham.
Is he descended from this same Lightfoot/Foot family? Must take a look. Bizarre that his nickname was Foot when we worked together in Bedford.
David
A Thomas Lightfoot married in Bromham in 1784... Could be the Oakley son of John and Elizabeth? He many never have left and have become the ancestor of your friend?
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Hope you have more success finding the marriage for John Foot and Elizabeth than I've had!
The Beds FHS Surnames index has a marriage for John Foot of Clapham at Kempston in 1762.
I could not see it on the IGI (Family Search)
Just been to Kempston Library where they have PR transcript
11 May 1762 John Foot of Clapham married Elizabeth SMITH
It's the only Foot entry for Kempston & there are no Lightfoot names
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Hope you have more success finding the marriage of John Foot and Elizabeth than I've had!
The Beds FHS Surnames index has a marriage of John Foot of Clapham at Kempston in 1762.
I could not see it on the IGI (Family Search)
Just been to Kempston Library where the have PR transcript
11 May 1762 John Foot of Clapham married Elizabeth SMITH
It's the only Foot entry for Kempston & there are no Lightfoot names
Wow, you just went there?! Good detective work and thank you!
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I could not see it on the IGI (Family Search)
It's not on the Indexed ie extracted part of the IGI but does show on the Contributed database as FOAT
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Now you've got me intrigued!
My best man was a Lightfoot, from Bromham, which is where JohnP and I lived as teenagers, next door to Oakley and Clapham.
Is he descended from this same Lightfoot/Foot family? Must take a look. Bizarre that his nickname was Foot when we worked together in Bedford.
David
A Thomas Lightfoot married in Bromham in 1784... Could be the Oakley son of John and Elizabeth? He many never have left and have become the ancestor of your friend?
Sorry, I was wrong (was trying to do genealogy and work at the same time, bad combo): it was John Lightfoot and Elizabeth West from Bromham.
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I suspect that Mary is another daughter of John and Elizabeth Foot, who seem to have married in 1763 or before. Without a baptism I can't prove it though. Who were the witnesses to her marriage?
David
No idea, I only have access to ancestry and that's not telling me much...
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Hope you have more success finding the marriage for John Foot and Elizabeth than I've had!
The Beds FHS Surnames index has a marriage for John Foot of Clapham at Kempston in 1762.
I could not see it on the IGI (Family Search)
Just been to Kempston Library where they have PR transcript
11 May 1762 John Foot of Clapham married Elizabeth SMITH
It's the only Foot entry for Kempston & there are no Lightfoot names
Could we believe that Elizabeth Smith may be from Kempston?
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Could we believe that Elizabeth Smith may be from Kempston?
I would suspect so - girls generally marry in their own parish..... but not always!
You need to check out a baptism for her at Kempston - around 1741 if she married age 21
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She was certainly resident in Kempston at the time of her marriage. Which is not necessarily the same thing as being born/baptised there.
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Who were the witnesses to her marriage?
No idea, I only have access to ancestry and that's not telling me much...
It was a rhetorical question; merely a suggestion as to where you could look for hints ie were any of her presumed siblings witnesses at her marriage.
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Who were the witnesses to her marriage?
No idea, I only have access to ancestry and that's not telling me much...
It was a rhetorical question; merely a suggestion as to where you could look for hints ie were any of her presumed siblings witnesses at her marriage.
That'll have to wait until my Bedfordshire-Northamptonshire roadtrip, some day - I could drop in at lots of archives ;)
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What do you think, guys, is the William Lightfoot that marries Elizabeth Waples in Bedford in 1793 the same one that was baptised in Clapham in 1772? And would they have been the parents of Louisa and Ann Lightfoot (both baptised in 1796) and Jane and Martha Lightfoot (both baptised in 1801), all four baptisms being in Pavenham? Not enough to go on but there is always an option this is true, and Pavenham is close enough to Clapham and Oakley, right?
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Might the Pavenham parents be William Lightfoot who married Elizabeth Hulet at Pavenham on 13 July 1794 ?
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Might the Pavenham parents be William Lightfoot who married Elizabeth Hulet at Pavenham on 13 July 1794 ?
Yup, darn all those folks naming their children William and Elizabeth...
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Hope you have more success finding the marriage for John Foot and Elizabeth than I've had!
The Beds FHS Surnames index has a marriage for John Foot of Clapham at Kempston in 1762.
I could not see it on the IGI (Family Search)
Just been to Kempston Library where they have PR transcript
11 May 1762 John Foot of Clapham married Elizabeth SMITH
It's the only Foot entry for Kempston & there are no Lightfoot names
JohnP, I'd like to ask another question about this marriage, if I may?
It says 'John Foot of Clapham', so would that mean he was BORN there or merely living at the time of his marriage? Because I can't seem to find anyone by the name of John Foot (or Lightfoot or any other kind of Foot, for that matter) being baptised in Clapham all the way back to 1602 (I have the CD with the records).
So... Is there a chance that he wasn't actually FROM Clapham but merely living there, or perhaps that he wasn't carrying the Foot surname yet at the time of his birth?
This guy confuses me greatly, and because the darn fool marries a girl named Smith, there's no way I can ever try and find anything out about them via her either...
Thanks if you can give me any clues?
Lexi.
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He was living in Clapham at time of his marriage, does not mean he was born there.
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He was living in Clapham at time of his marriage, does not mean he was born there.
Thanks for clearing that up! Saves me going mad from looking for him...
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Also a marriage of John Foot of Clapham at Kempston in 1762
Cheers John
Is there anywhere/any way I can find out where the bride in this marriage was from, Elizabeth Smith?
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Kempston transcript says she was otp. But that of course was her parish of residence at the time of the marriage, not necessarily where she was born
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Kempston transcript says she was otp. But that of course was her parish of residence at the time of the marriage, not necessarily where she was born
That's what I thought... I was kind of hoping she might be from Oakley, as that is where their first (or second) child is baptised, the other baptisms were all in Clapham. But Smith... such a horrid name to research, and I just bet her father's name was John... ???
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Did we establish a year of birth for John Foot or Lightfoot ? If he married in 1762 & it was his first marriage then guess he was born 1735-1741 perhaps, & thus Elizabeth Smith born about same time.
How about the Elizabeth Smith baptised at Oakley on 2 Mar 1739-40, daughter of Charles & Alice Smith ?
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Did we establish a year of birth for John Foot or Lightfoot ? If he married in 1762 & it was his first marriage then guess he was born 1735-1741 perhaps, & thus Elizabeth Smith born about same time.
How about the Elizabeth Smith baptised at Oakley on 2 Mar 1739-40, daughter of Charles & Alice Smith ?
That's what I thought as well. I found only two (!) suitable Elizabeth Smiths in Oakley anyway (1740 and 1734) and the 1740 one is way more logical. No trace of the name Charles among the children, nor does Elizabeth name a daughter Alice, but there are a few granddaughters called Alice, so perhaps we are barking up the right tree here.
And a possible candidate for John Foot, I thought, could be the 1739 Turvey one, son of Thomas and Ann. Also not too many John Foots around: Jn born Roxton 1724 son of James and Ann, and John born 1732 in Harrold, son of Benjamin and Elizabeth. The Turvey one seems about right.
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Without anything concrete this is pure speculation!
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Without anything concrete this is pure speculation!
Yes, alas...
(any suggestions how to find anything concrete...?)
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Research all the possible Johns. Were they buried as infants; did they marry in the parish in which they were baptised or did they marry and were described as eg John of Turvey. You might be able to eliminate some of them. But proving it at that time is difficult, nigh on impossible actually. Check for wills to see if any of the possible fathers left a will naming a son John of Clapham/Oakley or wherever, or naming grandchildren that you might be able to show were the children of your John.
Check the BARS catalogue at http://bedsarchivescat.bedford.gov.uk/search/advanced for Foot (and Lightfoot), John (the comma is vital). Property transactions can provide invaluable clues.