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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: fred2derf on Saturday 23 April 16 10:52 BST (UK)
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Anne born abt 1810 possibly Walden
Parents possibly Thomas CUMBERLAND & Hannah JONES
Job Twine & Anne Cumberland
Marriage 18 Aug 1831 Walden-St. Paul's
Looking for any further details on Anne and her parents.
Thanks,
Fred
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Hi Fred.
I couldn't easily spot them on the 1841 census but I did find this:
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/archive/index.php/t-20379.html
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Hi Ruskie,
Thanks, I've seen that.
1841
HO107 Piece/Book 438/15 Folio 19 Page 3
Civil Parish: St Paul Walden
County: Hertfordshire
Registration District: Hitchin
ED:
Address: Paul's Walden Bury ?
Job Twine 45 Coal merchant N
Ann 30 N ?
Robert 1 N
Elizabeth 5 N
I've not been able to find a baptism or confirm those are Anne's parents.
They arrived in Australia per 'Lima' in 1849.
Fred
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Anne died in Queensland in 1879 aged 69 - no parents listed on reg.
Fred
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Do you know if Anne had any siblings?
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Sorry, no idea re siblings. I've not found anything in shipping records or in Queensland that mentions Anne had any siblings.
The Queenslander (Brisbane, Qld. : 1866 - 1939) - Saturday 12 July 1879 p.33
DEATHS
TWINE.-On the 10th July, at Grove Farm, Moggill, Anne, relict of the late Job Twine, in her 70th year.
Job c. 23 Feb 1794 Bremhill, Wiltshire
Adam TWINE & Sarah
Fred
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Where did you get the names Thomas Cumberland and Hannah Jones as (possibly) being Anne's parents?
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No note in my tree just two names and 2x ?
I'll have to check if I have a note which is not entered.
Fred
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I started my tree eight years ago and have made mistakes along the way. Some catch up with me years later.
I can't find why I have those names with a '?' for Anne's parents.
Fred
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Might you have picked up those names from someone else's tree, hence the question marks? :-\
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Probably a tree that is no loner on-line as I could not find it again.
This will have to wait until Walden St. Paul's can be checked for that 1831 marriage and for possible baptism. The OPR or perhaps later an OPC.
TWINE family is easy to research.
Fred
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The marriage record is on FindMyPast. Job Twine was a widower of the parish of Newnham in the county of Gloucester (agent), Anne Cumberland was otp and spinster. Marriage 18 Aug 1831 at St Pauls Walden Bury by licence. Witnesses William Cumberland, Jemima (?) Cumberland and C H Pilgrim. Mr Pilgrim witnesses a lot of marriages so likely to be a parish official. Later record gives his forenames as Charles Hullett.
Both Anne and Job signed as did all the witnesses.
added
on 1841 census there is a Jemima Cumberland age 55 farmer at bottom of page before the page with Job and Anne. Anne is recorded as 30 in 1841, so Jemima could be mother or aunt. Although relationships not given, the children after Jemima (inc a jemima age 15) could be her daughters.
More added
Jemima Cumberland born 4 Jul 1823 bapt 10 Aug 1823 Gt gaddesdon, d/o William Cumberland (farmer) and Jemima.
Index to death duty registers
William Cumberland Hoo End farm, executor Jemima Cumberland Paul's Walden death year 1842. So William should be on 1841 census at a different address
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Looks like his first marriage was to Elizabeth Fletcher (sp, otp) on 14 April 1824 in Great Gaddesdon, also by licence. Witnesses John Cumberland and Sophia Cumberland and James Fletcher. Record says with consent of guardians (?). Fletchers and Cumberlands might be related.
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Looking at freebmd it looks like William died Q2 1841 (so probably not on 1841 census, which was taken on 1st june), possibly what is given as death year was actually when probate was granted. Looks like Jemima's death in 1845
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On 1841 census, Anne (Cumberland) Twine was not born in county (Herts), neither was Jemima snr or Robert Cumberland who seems to be part of the same household. On the 1851 census this Robert's pob is given as Houghton Rye, Beds. can't find this place, but it could be Houghton Regis, just north of Dunstable.
William Cumberland married Jemima Fletcher 4 Nov 1819 Toddington Beds. This gives a link between Fletchers and Cumberlands, but is too late for Jemima to be Anne's mother. But could be William's second marriage?? and both Robert and Anne are children from first marriage possibly??
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Freereg has bapt of Robert Cumberland in Houghton regis 31 jul 1808 s/o William and Ann.
also Ann Cumberland bapt 24 Jun 1810 at Houghton Regis d/o Thomas and Hannah.
Thomas Cumberland married Hannah Jones in HR in 1805.
There is a baptism for a William Cumberland s/o Thomas and Hannah on 25 dec 1807, notes say he was aged 13 m. Sarah Cumberland was bapt on the same day as Ann in 1810, parents William and Susannah. A William Cumberland married Susannah Howes on 14 Feb 1809.
Thomas and William could be brothers. Two possible pairs
There's a Thomas bapt in HR in 1780 s/o Thomas and Susan Cumberland and a Thomas bapt in HR in 1781 s/o William and Ann.
There's a William bapt 1775 s/o William and Ann and a William bapt 1788 s/o Thomas and Susan.
Given the household in 1841, I think Thomas and William are more likely sons of william and Ann., because Robert is living with extended family.
There is also a Sophia Cumberland d/o William and Ann bapt in HR 1803, poss witness on Joseph Twine's first marriage??
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Just found what looks like Thomas and hannah Cumberland in 1851 in Houghton Regis
They have living with them daughter Ann b abt 1810 married to James Duchess, so it looks as if the Anne married to Job Twine is not the daughter of Thomas and Hannah
Piece number 1757 Folio 31 Page 1
added
And William (b abt 1788) and Susannah are still in Houghton Regis in 1851, so not the same William who married Jemima in 1819. ???
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Just had a look at Toddington records. there is a child baptised to James and Jemima Fletcher -
James April 28 1807, then burial of James Fletcher (farmer) on 23 Nov 1811 - so burial of an adult not the child James. Possibly Jemima was a widow when she married William Cumberland. Perhaps a request if anyone has post 1812 Toddington marriage records on the Bedfordshire board would solve that one.
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Thank you very much LizzieL.
I'll copy all that but I won't have time this evening to take it all in.
Might have to go on Bedfordshire and Australia boards.
Fred
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Hi LizzieL,
I have looked at the 1841 census and drawn up a tree on paper and can follow the families now.
I looked for the witness at Job's first marriage John Cumberland and found from FreeReg
Houghton Regis Baptisms
John 12 Apr 1792 - William & Ann - burial 2 Nov 1792
Can't find a John who would be the witness.
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Houghton Regis St Michael 13 Aug 1805
Groom Thomas CUMBERLAND
Groom parish Houghton Regis
Bride Hannah JONES
Bride parish Houghton Regis
The Houghton Regis baptisms you found:
Ann 24 Jun 1810 - Thomas & Hannah
Sarah same day - William & Susannah
Could be difficult to prove that Thomas and William are brothers - sons of Thomas & Susan
I have not found a marriage for a second Thomas.
Fred
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Ann - daughter of Thomas & Hannah is ruled out.
So William - son of William & Ann married an Ann
Children
Sophia 1803 ?
Robert 1808
Ann 1810
William's second marriage to Jemima 1819 (possibly the second for her too)
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Your Anne Cumberland still seems to be a mystery, she can't be Thomas and Hannah's daughter, because their Anne is living with them in 1851 with her husband James Duches
Your Ann is likely to have a strong connection to William and Jemima Cumberland, because they are witnesses to her marriage to Job Twine and Jemima seems to be part of the same household in 1841 (after William's death).
William bapt 1788 HR is not the husband of Jemima, because that William married Susannah and is still with her in 1851.
So the most likely candidate for the William who married Jemima is William bapt 1775 s/o William and Ann.
The Thomas (with Hannah) is stated as age 71 in 1851, so born abt 1780. There are two Thomas's in HR which would fit, Thomas 1780 s/o Thomas and Susan or Thomas 1781 s/o William and Ann. But there is a Thomas bapt 1790 s/o of Thomas and Susanna. Did T and S's first Thomas die and they called a later son Thomas? If so the Thomas who married Hannah must be William and Ann's son.
I think we need to check William and jemima's marriage ( request look up on Bedfordshire board) to see if either / both were widowed.
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Thanks LizzieL.
With 2x Thomas to Thomas & Susannah it means my idea of brothers having a child baptised the same day is out.
I agree the William who married Jemima is the son of William & Ann.
I'll post a topic to the Beds. board.
Fred
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John on the Bedfordshire board kindly provided some details.
William a widower and Jemima a widow.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=747407
Fred