RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: MrsSelfPub on Tuesday 26 April 16 18:01 BST (UK)
-
I have hit a few roadblocks recently so have decided to take one at a time with the most straightforward first....
My resources and searches are yielding nothing for my great auntie who died as a young child. The dates of her life are known in the family as is her name and location but I can't seem to find her birth or death record.
Annie Moffat b.1916 d.1923
Born in Glasgow. Possibly Rutherglen or Shettleston. The family probably lived at Woddrop Street in Rutherglen at the time she died. Buried in a family grave whose location is no longer remembered but somewhere there lurks a photo in a loft.
Parents:
Matthew Moffat 1870-1948
Born in Bloss(?)Tioga, Penn, USA but I can't find definite records of this. Died in Bootle.
Annie Barclay Arthur Moffat 1876-1958
Born in Camlachie, Glasgow. Died in Crosby, Lancashire.
My grandfather was their eldest son, Alexander Buchanan Moffat 1904-1977. He told my father that the family emigrated to Canada in 1923 shortly after 'Wee Nan's' death but actually returned sooner than intended as Annie Barclay Arthur Moffat couldn't bear that no one was there to tend poor Wee Nan's grave.
If anyone can help me find records, I would be really grateful. I feel I owe it to Wee Nan that there is proof of her short life.
-
Hello Mrs SelfPub,
This birth & death on ScotlandsPeople may be the Annie you are looking for.
Annie Arthur Moffat born 1916 at Camlachie, Glasgow City.
Annie Arthur Moffat died 1923 at Bridgeton, Glasgow City age 6. (Birth year 1916 +/- 1yr).
Hope this is your Annie.
Regards, Dod.
-
Thanks Dod - that looks pretty hopeful :)
-
Thanks again but unfortunately Scotlandspeople charge a minimum of £7 for 70 credits and I only need 1 credit so can't justify the outlay on my meagre budget.
Is anyone else able to help me find the record in the freeBMD? I really don't know why it isn't showing up.
Thanks
-
If you mean this site then it only covers England and wales-
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Regarding the birth and death certificates-
Births- Images of statutory births from 1855 to 1914 are available to view on this site. A digital image is a scan of the microfiche copy of the original register page containing the entry in which you are interested.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&402
You can, however, view deaths up to 1964 online.
I thought it costs 5 credits to view a certificate but if I'm mistaken then someone else will be able to correct me. However, what I can see is that 30 credits (not 70) cost £7 which is not an unreasonable amount.
-
Until the end of this month you can get 20 credits on the Scotlands People site (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/)) for free ;D As far as I know you need 1 credit to pull up the index with the certificate you want and then 5 credits to see the certificate itself.
BUT - The birth of Annie Arthur Moffat is just too recent to be able to see the full certificate (only up to 1914 or possibly 1915 available at the moment).
You will be able to see the full certificate for her death though (those are available up to 1964). If the information on that has the parents that you are expecting then I think you can safely say that the birth will be the correct one.
-
Ooops I forgot to say that you use the voucher "scotland" on the add credit page to get the free credits.
-
Hello Mrs SelfPub,
Using 1 Credit to view the index wouldn't really give you much more information than you already have. To find the full birth/death date & names of both parents, including mother's maiden name, you would need to use a further 5 Credits to view the Birth or Death Certificate. ie, 6 Credits per Certificate. 'aghadowey' is right. £7 for 30 Credits and you would be viewing scans of the original Certificates, not transcriptions.
Regards, Dod.
Added. Good, I see someone has posted about the 20 Free Credits.
-
Many thanks to you all. I think that ScotlandsPeople will be quite useful after all but I foresee a few late nights before my credits time out ;) I think a few more of the gaps may be filled in using the records available there.
The voucher code worked and I have now seen the document. I don't think anyone every mentioned that Wee Nan had died of burns. The family had set up a fire extinguisher company that was beginning to do very well so I imagine that having a child die of burns was particularly distressing. The address: Dalmarnock House, Woddrop Street also confirms the address I thought they were living at.
The family emigrated to Canada (for a few years) shortly after Wee Nan's death. The fire extinguisher business was going trans-atlantic. But, as mentioned before, they returned as her mother couldn't bear leaving Wee Nan's grave.
The company went on to become the L&G Fire Extinguisher company that was bought out by Chubb in about 1976.
-
The Glasgow Herald - daily paper - is free to view on Google for 1923. If you now have the exact date of death, it might be worth trawling through the days following either the accident or the death to see if there was a newspaper report. I found a similar case involving the accidental drowning of a toddler recently. If you post what you know about the accident and death date/s, I'll have a look too.
Sarah
-
Hi Sarah,
Thanks for that tip. The exact date of death was 24 April 1923. I found out from my father that she was scalded rather than burnt. She died of burns shock.
Helen
-
Was there an RCE with the death certificate?
-
Forgive my ignorance but what is an RCE?
Helen
-
RCEs
You may occasionally come across records with a note in the left margin 'RCE' or 'Reg. Cor. Ent.' followed by a volume number, page number and date. RCE stands for Register of Corrected Entries, or, after 1965, Register of Corrections, Etc. If, after an entry in a register had been completed, an error was discovered or some other amendment was required as a result of new information, the original entry could not be altered. Instead, each registrar kept a Register of Corrected Entries in which such amendments were written, originally after they had been approved by a sheriff. Corrections might be to name, residence, identity, or as a result of a precognition from a procurator fiscal giving additional or amended information on cause or circumstances of death. When an extract certificate is issued of an entry to which an RCE relates, the extract must reflect the amendments recorded in the RCE.
-
Yes there is an RCE in the margin - Vol 52.91 (or possibly 53.91) 13 June 1923
-
On Scotlandspeople where it asks you to click to . there should be a red button near top of page. It costs 2 credits to view the RCE
Closest cemetery would be Eastern Necropolis on Janefield Street
-
Possible passenger record for Matthew
Matthew Moffat aged 54 left Montréal, Québec, Canada arr Glasgow 22 Aug 1924
Occupation: Agent
Intended address: 2 Craignestock Place, Glasgow
-
Is anyone else able to help me find the record in the freeBMD? I really don't know why it isn't showing up.
Because FreeBMD only covers England and Wales.
-
Hi Helen
Just to let you know.
The Herald on Google docs is well nigh impossible to read and not searchable so I gave up and looked at The Scotsman on Proquest (available through my Glasgow Libraries membership). But can't find anything about the accident.
Hope you find some more details on the grave.
Sarah
-
Thanks for looking, Sarah. It was such a terrible way for a cherished little girl to die. Years later, her mother was present when my father (aged 5) also had a severe scalding accident that put him in hospital for months. I can't even imagine the effect it must have had on her, on either occasion.
I think my next step is going to have to be a foray north of the border to track down the headstone/obelisk with her name on it (along with other family members). The tip of trying the Eastern Necropolis seems a good one. Several years ago, my parents tried looking in the Southern Necropolis but with no success. I had better wait until they re-discover the photo in their loft as they have moved house in the intervening years.
Cheers! ;D
-
I searched the BNA also the NRS http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/ [in case of FAI] both to no avail.
-
Very belated thank you!
Sorry but I went into hospital on Friday 13th May and have not used Rootschat since then. Thank so much for searching.
I am anticipating a trip up to Glasgow the week after next and may try literally looking around the burial grounds near where she died. I am guessing the Eastern Necropolis would be a fair start. Does anybody know of any index of graves please?
According to my parents, there is a very tall family memorial. However, there may be MANY very tall memorials!
Any assistance much appreciated.
-
The death announcement for 6yr old Annie apears in the Glasgow Herald dated 26 Apr 1923.
Unfortunately there is no info on a burial
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC&dat=19230426&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
-
After a long break from trying to find Poor Wee Nan, I am returning to trying to find which cemetery/necropolis she is buried in. She died at Dalmarnock House, Woddrop Street, Glasgow. There is a picture of a large memorial on which her name has been carved but the memorial is in the name Gillespie - but I have no idea where it is.
-
A Rootshat member posted how to find some info on who is buried where in Glasgow (not all cemeteries, unfortunately!).
Go to Familysearch >Catalog>Place (put in Glasgow and select Scotland, Lanark, Glasgow) Then press "search".
From this list now select Cemeteries (39)
You should now have a long list of various cemeteries.
Select ?Eastern Nacropolis? - you'll find quite a long list of Daily Interment books.
However only those with the image of a camera are viewable. Those with an image of a film canister are not.
They are only searchable by date. But as you know the date of death.......
The records are not indexed in any way, so keep plodding.
Happy hunting!
-
The memorial was erected by Alexander Moffat and wife Mary Gillespie, Wee Nan's paternal grandparents. They buried four sons there before father Alexander died in 1902 and wife Mary in 1903.
I had a look at the Glasgow Herald for Alexander's death notice in 1902 but there is no mention of burial location for his funeral. I think the issue that would have had Mary's death notice is missing from the scans.
Just for some additional background on cemeteries, see www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Burial-Lair-and-Cremation-Registers.aspx
Also, www.memento-mori.co.uk have great coverage of stones in many cemeteries. I looked at the Glasgow ones but couldn't see anything for the family in these indexes so far.
Monica
-
Apart from the Glasgow Herald, there are other newspapers that could be checked such as the Evening Times for example. Google has many historical scans for this paper, but not great for the period you need https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2mus-XyGPC0C
See www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Newspapers.aspx
Monica
-
Kate, just been looking at your recommendation on the FS site. Wow, didn't know this was there. From your directions, this is the direct link:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=3503&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Scotland%2C%20Lanark%2C%20Glasgow%22&subjectsOpen=532507-50
nb you need to be signed on to view now.
Now
-
Took me ages to find details of my family's (unmarked) grave in St Kentigern's and it would have been much easier if it had been indexed...but I'm not complaining!
Now that we know the plot number for the "2mums and 2sons", we're arranging for a headstone to be placed.
-
We found her in the Sandymount Cemetery in Shettleston, Glasgow. It was a wonderful feeling and very emotional too. The main headstone had fallen and was buried under a thatch of moss that peeled away easily. Her name was engraved on the plinth on which it had previously stood. We hope to renovate it.
Glasgow City Council were tremendously helpful and even arranged for someone to come out and unlock the other possibility, Shettleston Old Cemetery. We went in there and it was very small but fascinating. Some very old headstones and a fox had evidently dug down and dragged up a very yellow thigh bone!!! :o
-
Well done! You put in so much effort. Great to hear you got there...
Thanks for coming back and updating the thread :)
Monica
-
So glad you found her grave .
Did you take photos ?