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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: islay 1 on Saturday 30 April 16 12:48 BST (UK)
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I hope I am not posting in the wrong place but am not very good with computers! Some years ago I asked for a look up in St Quivox, and was kindly given the details of lair 300 for Catherine Cameron McCracken d 1923,and her parents Thomas McCracken d 1937 and Mary Cameron his wife, d.1937.
My Granny, Mary McCracken Harvey, was another daughter of Thomas and Mary, and sister to Catherine. After Granny died her coffin was brought to Ayr, but I have been unable to locate it to see if there was a headstone and to know her final resting place. I have tried a contact with Ayrshire Cemeteries but have been unsuccessful.She was born Mary McCracken in 1884 at Tarbolton, Ayrshire,and Granny died as Mary McCracken Harvey in November 1963. There was talk of a family lair, and I wondered if this was the same one as the earlier mentioned McCracken one, if she had been put alongside these other members of her family. Is there anyone who could look up this to help me?
My parents also had a stillborn daughter born in November 1945.I have seen a receipt for a coffin for Baby Harvey, although Mum's married name was Smith, she had married the previous year in 1944 in Ayr.
We have never known where the baby was buried, if indeed she was ever given a name, and my parents are both dead now, and my sisters and I would love to know where our sister and Granny are lying now. Is there anyone who could help? It is just a long shot that they were added to the family lair in St Quivox. With much appreciation, thank you for reading this, best wishes, Islay.
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I know that in Ayrshire, particularly around the time you are speaking of it was traditional for babies who died to be buried with a woman who died around the same time. If a family member has died around the same time she'd be chosen but wasn't always family.
Have you tried contacting the council? There is a large cemetery in Ayr thst is still administered by South Ayrshire council.
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Hi Isla,
Sorry I can't help you with the burials but it should be possible to get a death certificate for your stillborn sister.
If you go to www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/registering-a-stillbirth you can download a form of application. It can only be done by parents or if they are deceased a sibling. There is a fee for this of around £10.
Hope this is of some help to you.
Dorrie
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Thank you, dowdstree and pharmaT for both of you taking the time to help me. I did contact Ayrshire council, but with no luck. Will try and get a death certificate for my baby sister as you suggested, thank you. I wonder if anyone could look up Mary McCracken Harvey 1884-1963 to see if she is buried at St Quivox for me? I would be very grateful, Islay.
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Hi Islay :)
First of all, my grandparents had a still born baby, then a year later a baby (probably premature) who died hours after birth. Both babies were buried in the same lair as their great-grandparents in the local Ayrshire cemetery They were not wealthy people - mill workers. However these births were also home births.
Do you know if your sister was born at home or in a hospital ?
You could find your sister's death on Scotland's People website - there is a death in 1945 for a female Smith aged 0 born in 1945 registered at Irvine in Ayrshire. Irvine Central/Ayrshire Central hospital had maternity wards. I know from a couple of older relatives who sadly had stillborn babies at this hospital that the burial of their babies were taken care of by the hospital. Neither mother knew where their baby had been buried :'(.
Lastly, a friend of mine recently used East Ayrshire Council Bereavement services to locate a burial in East Ayrshire. The response was prompt and they had an answer with a cemetery name and grave number in a day !
If you have the exact date of death and location for Mary McCracken Harvey, I would suggest you contact http://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/council/charters/registration-bereavement.aspx Perhaps this is who you contacted already :-\
Best wishes
Looby :)
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Thank you for that information, loobylooayr. I will follow it up tomorrow.
You obviously took a lot of time writing your reply, and I am so grateful for your help. Best wishes, Islay.
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It's been a wee while since you posted this request but just in case you haven't got very far, this is just a thought. I believe there is a register of still births in Edinburgh, I understood a still birth wasn't included in the register of deaths because if the baby was dead at birth, it was deemed never to have been alive so a cert not issued. I didn't get one for my daughter.
Because it upset the national statistics, still births are now recorded. My daughter was buried in Knagerhill cemetery in Irvine because that was the nearest to the hospital and they have a special area for stillborns, and a memorial. I think things have changed a little bit now though http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/registering-a-stillbirth
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I would be so grateful if anyone could look at the records at St Quivox for my grandmother. It is a while since I last enquired, and maybe new records have been released. I have tried Ayr cemetery with no luck. It is possible that she is in St Quivox as her parents and sister are there.
Mary Cameron Sproat McCracken Harvey
Born 1884 Tarbolton, Ayrshire
Died 21 September 1962
I cannot find her anywhere, and I know her coffin definitely came to Ayr for burial in October 1962. Please could anyone help me find where she lies and if she has a gravestone?
Thank you for reading, Islay
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Your earlier post says she died in 1963
Threads merged.
and Granny died as Mary McCracken Harvey in November 1963.
Scotlands People is not showing a death in either 1962 or 1963 with a middle name of McCracken so where and when did she die? Do you have a copy of her death cert?
There is a Mary Harvey death in 1962 Maybole aged 78 which fits an 1884 birthyear but is it the right entry?
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Thank you for replying, CaroleW.
Granny died in London where she was being cared for by her family there. Yes, I have a copy of her death certificate, and it was September 1962.
The coffin came up by train to Ayr, but I was only a little girl at the time and did not come up for the funeral or remember being told where she was interred.
She may well have lost some of her many names and be recorded as Mary McCracken Harvey, or just Mary Harvey.
Her parents Thomas and Mary McCracken are buried ar St Quivox, which is why I asked for someone to kindly check there.
Thank you for your time, Islay
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Hi ,
I have looked on Scotlands People and found a marriage in 1909 between a Mary McCracken and Charles Harvey at Ayr. Is this your grandparents, Islay?
If so, do you know where and when Charles died and was buried. I wondered if your Granny could be buried with her husband but I cannot see a death in Ayrshire which would tie in . ( Of course he could be a WW1 casualty :-\ )
You say , you know her coffin definitely came to Ayr for burial in October 1962 ......where did the coffin come from? Do you know where she died? Was it outside Ayrshire?
Looby :)
Added- should have checked out the red warning before I posted. I see that your Granny died in London , which would explain why we have been unable to find a death record on SP.
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Ooh, sorry you spent time looking on SP for her death, Looby, but thank you for your time and interest. Yes, it is her marriage to Charles Harvey that you found. He was my grandfather, but they emigrated to Canada shortly after their marriage and he died over there, is buried there and so they will not have been buried together. Granny returned to Ayr after he died and lived there for many years before needing care, and so she came to live with us down in London. Hence her coffin being brought back to Ayr on the train by my parents.
Unfortunately they have both passed away now so I cannot ask them where Granny is buried, and my sisters and I so much want to know so that we can visit and leave flowers etc.
Thank you for yoyr time, best wishes, Islay
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I checked Findagrave - St Quivox Churchyard - sorry, there doesn't appear to be any Harvey's or McCrackens buried there!
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A disappointing answer for me, jaybelnz, but I thank you very much indeed for looking.
Where in Ayrshire Mary Harvey nee McCracken 1884-1962 is buried..... looks as though it will remain a mystery!
Thank you, Islay
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Late to the thread(s) but...
Islay,
'I have tried a contact with Ayrshire Cemeteries but have been unsuccessful'
Can you tell us exactly what info. you supplied etc. & what the reply was please?
Is it possible you didn't give all known details for your g g/parents, names/dates etc?
Annie
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Not every burial has a memorial stone and not every memorial stone has all the details on it. There are several burial grounds in Ayr but it's possible there was a family lair somewhere and it might be an idea to look at where other members of the family are buried. If your granny was brought to Ayr to be buried in a lair the family already had, then I would think it best to look at perhaps her parents place of burial - or a siblings. Have you tried that already? If you have all the correct details, I would have thought Ayr burial admin office could help you providing you give them the correct details. You could also try the local newspapers to see if there was an obit or memorandum for her.
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Thank you, Rosinish and Agnes 14 for taking the time to help.
The reason I wondered about the St Quivox link was that Mary's parents and sister are buried there.(Thomas and Mary McCracken and Catherine McCulloch nee McCracken.)
Granny was born in Tarbolton, at Annbank Station, where her father was a railway porter, but they all lived in Princes Street, Ayr (now demolished) for many, many years.
I cannot add more to what I gave the Ayr Cemetery people on the phone, which is all the details that I have posted here too. I have the receipt for her coffin coming up to Ayr in October 1962, and the name of the undertaker, but they ceased trading decades ago!
I know my parents would have had a stone made for her. She was a much loved lady.
I will keep looking, and thank you all for your time and interest. Best wishes, Islay.
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Hi again Islay.
Must be really frustrating to have the details of the coffin being transported to Ayr and the undertakers involved but not be able to find out what happened thereafter.
I would agree with Agnes14. Finding where your great-grandparents were buried in 1937 would be my advice too. Your granny may have been buried in that lair....although you mention that her sister Catherine Cameron McCracken is known to be buried with your GG-parents and often there is only room for 3 burials in a lair.
Where were your great-grandparents from? Were they born in Ayr? (Thinking of where else a burial could be)
Looby :)
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Away from the original request, something just crossed my mind when you added a few more details. (I have mining family from the St Quivox/Wallacetown area and who lived in Princes St as well). Some years ago someone had quite a collection of postcards etc and was giving a talk on Annbank Station. I had hoped to go along to it as I had family in nearby Annbank but didn't manage. I can't remember when it was but thinking about the railway porter bit, I wondered if it would be of interest to enquire at the library in Mossblown for a little bit more information. I don't know whether they would keep any newspaper clippings or not. Always another avenue to go down
http://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/libraries/branches/mossblown-library.aspx (http://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/libraries/branches/mossblown-library.aspx)
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You would be better contacting Carnegie Library in Ayr. Local studies section has newspaper archives. Another contributor suggested looking for a death/funeral notice in local newspapers. These are "Ayr Advertiser" and "Ayrshire Post".
Do you know where the stillborn baby was born? There was a maternity hospital, Thorneyflat, in north Ayr. The former Ayr Hospital which was a general hospital, wasn't far from Ayr Cemetery.
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Maiden Stone, I still wouldn't dismiss the local library. I know they are trying to centralise a lot of family history but I found a lot of information in the Lorrimer Library in Tarbolton in relation to my own family history which isn't in the Carnegie.
From the NRScotland site it tells you how to get stillbirth extracts.
"Extracts of still-birth records from 1939 onwards are available from National Records of Scotland for a fee. Due to the sensitive nature of still-birth registrations, these extracts are usually only issued to the parents of the still-born child. However, siblings of still-born children may apply, either with the express consent of a parent, or on their own behalf, where they can demonstrate that their parents are no longer alive."
You will get the details on their site https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/registering-a-stillbirth (https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/registering-a-stillbirth)
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Thank you for continuing to help me and offer some good suggestions for further research which I had not thought of. I am most grateful. Will let you know if any success comes of them. Off to try now!
Thank you again, Islay