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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Fresh Fields on Tuesday 03 May 16 01:05 BST (UK)
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A news release doing the rounds.
Search for a Soldier .... can you help?
100 years on from the first Anzac Day commemorations, Auckland War Memorial Museum
invites history buffs, war researchers, genealogists and the naturally curious to
find a mystery fallen New Zealand WWII Serviceman.
The enigma of this New Zealand soldier was brought to the Museum's attention by the
Israeli Ambassador Yosef Livne after a 2012 visit to New Zealand war graves in
Poland.
Back in Israel, Mr Livne read about a Hebrew soldier who was helped in WWII by an
unknown soldier. He'd been given New Zealand dog tags to avoid persecution from
German soldiers.
Mr Livne began researching and discovered a book written by an Israeli soldier in
the British Army, "Letters from the Desert - A Story of Friendship", describing the
friendship between the author Moshe Mosenzon and a New Zealand soldier whose last
name was 'Tate'. The soldier was apparently killed in the battle of El Alamein.
It is the mystery surrounding 'Soldier Tate' which the Ambassador and Auckland
Museum want to solve.
"One thing is for certain - if everything in the story is true - is that somewhere a
New Zealand soldier is buried in a place only known to God. We need to find this
soldier and be able to honour him" says Mr Livne.
Auckland Museum's Library and Armoury team have been researching the Kiwi Soldier
'Tate' as mentioned in the book. However they have hit a dead end and are hoping
that the public can help.
"Auckland Museum would like the public to get involved in trying to identify
'Soldier Tate' to unlock this mystery. Every piece of information, big or small, can
contribute to solving the enigma," says Museum Director, Roy Clare.
End of Quote.
- Alan.
Edit Moderator: Title corrected.
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Can you edit the title? You have WW1, rather than WW2.
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Hi John,
Alan isn't on line so I've taken your advice and made the correction. :)
Spades
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A bit more
"Tate’s mother ‘Eleanor’ who may have run a boarding house in Northland during the war"
"Was killed approximately 1 year later around September or October 1942 in North Africa at the Battle of El Alamein"
"May have a had someone in his family circle called Eleanor / Eileen / Leonore Tate with a daughter called Jean or Jeanie"
http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/about-us/blog/2016/solve-a-wwii-mystery
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As far as Tates in Northland goes here is one
Whangarei probates - TATE Charles - Paihia - Retired Storeman
1948 1948 Whangarei High Court Akld
I also suspect the same man sold some land to the Bay of Islands hospital board in 1945
Checking his probate
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&englishSubcountryName=Northland&query=%2Bgivenname%3ACharles~%20%2Bsurname%3ATate~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22New%20Zealand%22%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22New%20Zealand%2CNorthland%22
Elizabeth Muriel Halliday of Paihia seems to have been his daughter.
another one
Charles Roderick Tait of Whangarei died 1955 Whangarei
Wife Emily Ada Christina Tait.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-996P-6D2D?i=229&wc=Q8C5-FQ7%3A1061159104%2C1045466501%3Fcc%3D1865481&cc=1865481
another one
Joseph Elliott Tate of Kawakawa probate 1957
Daughter Alice Elizabeth Tate
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&englishSubcountryName=Northland&query=%2Bsurname%3ATate~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22New%20Zealand%22%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22New%20Zealand%2CNorthland%22
another one
Robert Blyth Tate probate 1954
Wife Margaret Park Tate
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G96P-6XF8?mode=g&i=191&wc=Q8C5-FWS%3A1061159104%2C1045462001%3Fcc%3D1865481&cc=1865481
I can see an Ellen Tate (husband James that had a son and daughter before the war nzbdm - son John b 1867 daughter Mary Ellen b 1864)
There is also an Eileen Florence Tate who was from Whanganui.
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Do they want to find where he was buried?
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I think they do and his service number
I can only think that if the have his dog tags that the service number must be incorrect on both of them even if the name says Tate
but they should have mentioned the faulty service number and the mans religion incase it helps with identity.
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Try a search on cwgc.org.uk
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Tried that, nothing on Commonwealth war graves that matches unless Moses was mistaken about Mr Tate being in the New Zealand army and also mistaken about his death at Al Alamein in NORTH AFRICA?
CCWG Comission
TATE, MAURICE VAREY Sergeant 41611 10/09/1942 28 Royal New Zealand Air Force New Zealand 3. C. 7. BERGEN-OP-ZOOM WAR CEMETERY (mother Mary Tate, wife Hilda Tate)
TATE, KENNETH DAWSON Signalman 7895 10/02/1944 19 Royal New Zealand Navy New Zealand 11. 3. DUNEDIN (ANDERSON'S BAY) CEMETERY (mother Vida, died in New Zealand of illness)
TATE, LLOYD EDWARD Flight Sergeant 421791 28/11/1943 20 Royal New Zealand Air Force New Zealand 2. C. 1. BROOKWOOD MILITARY CEMETERY (mother Vida, died in a cyling accident in Surrey)
TATE, CHARLES ROYDON Able Seaman A/1770 16/02/1942 20 Royal New Zealand Naval Volunteer Reserve New Zealand Panel 11. NEW ZEALAND NAVAL MEMORIAL, DEVONPORT, AUCKLAND (mother Helen, Missing, presumed killed during Singapore Evacuation)
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He could have been injured at El Alamein, then hospitalised, and died later.
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True but that doesn't help identify him, the only way would be his next of kin.
some more options
TATE, Roland Mander - WWII 802831 - Army
1940 1943 New Zealand Defence Force, Personnel Archives Wgtn
(Roland Tate dies 1968, WW1 & WW2, buried waikumete, not this one)
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Roland-Mander-Tate/4843877
TATE, Thomas - WWII 3/18/774 - Army
1940 1942 New Zealand Defence Force, Personnel Archives Wgtn
Has personel file - reading it, WW1, WW2 medically unfit, reclassifed civilian - not this one.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24268993&digital=yes
Perhaps electoral roles could help?
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How do we know the spelling Tate is correct ?
Signal
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Could it be "Tait"
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What would be ideal is the service number off the dog tag that Moshe Mosenzon had in his possession with the exact spelling of the surname on it.
Perhaps Moshe Mosenson wrote his book from memory and the dog tags had been returned to the New Zealand government?
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After 73 years, how can we verify what really happened?
Has anyone seen the book?
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Here is the book, my guess Auckland museum will have a copy
http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Desert-Mosenson-Translated-Auerbach/dp/B0017RS5HU
google
https://books.google.co.nz/books/about/Letters_from_the_Desert.html?id=hN8kAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y
book has Eleanora Tate written in it not Eleanor
also Jenny as the daughter not Jean or Jeannie
Tates brother is a well known engineer (who's who in NZ?)
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Here is a Eleanora Ferguson TAIT - Invercargill - Married Woman
mother of John Tait, no daughters listed
Invercargill is nowhere near Northland
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A news release doing the rounds.
Search for a Soldier .... can you help?
Back in Israel, Mr Livne read about a Hebrew soldier who was helped in WWII by an
unknown soldier. He'd been given New Zealand dog tags to avoid persecution from
German soldiers.
It is the mystery surrounding 'Soldier Tate' which the Ambassador and Auckland
Museum want to solve.
"One thing is for certain - if everything in the story is true - is that somewhere a
New Zealand soldier is buried in a place only known to God. We need to find this
soldier and be able to honour him" says Mr Livne.
Auckland Museum's Library and Armoury team have been researching the Kiwi Soldier
'Tate' as mentioned in the book. However they have hit a dead end and are hoping
that the public can help.
"Auckland Museum would like the public to get involved in trying to identify
'Soldier Tate' to unlock this mystery. Every piece of information, big or small, can
contribute to solving the enigma," says Museum Director, Roy Clare.
End of Quote.
- Alan.
Edit Moderator: Title corrected.
I think it is highly unlikely that a soldier would give his dog tags to another person.
Is there a history of nicknames in the New Zealand Army?
My father served with the RASC in Alexandria for 4 years during WW2, I do not think there was the same brutality in the Middle East theatre, as there was on the Russian front. IF the Hebrew soldier had been captured in Egypt, I think he would have been treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, either by the Italians or by the Germans.
IF it was the British Army, I think TATE may have been his nickname, real name possibly "Lyle"
Have you got an organisation like the "British Legion" in NZ?
A soldier would not want to give his dog tags to someone else, because if he was a casualty, he would want his loved ones to be notified honestly and correctly. Secongly, in the event that he was seriously injured he would want the medics and padre or Chaplin to know his blood group and correct religion.
I think that it may be an apochryphal story.
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Our NZ boys may have knocked up a set of dog tags for him.
Rules were often ignored if meant a life would be saved
Cheers Janette
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I would not be surprised Jeanette!
Two identical dog tags would not get past the German book keepers if caught.
Another book mentioning 'Tate' and 'Mosenson' for cross reference
search for Tate's grave
http://www.christianhistoryresearchaustralia.com/newbooks/Anzacs8.pdf
We had men in WW2 from New Zealand that lied about their names and ages just to go to WW2, some didn't think about what news their families would get.
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The dog tags would contain the persons Blood Group and Religion
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"EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY contains the graves of men who died at all stages of the Western Desert campaigns, brought in from a wide area, but especially those who died in the Battle of El Alamein at the end of October 1942 and in the period immediately before that. The cemetery now contains 7,240 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War, of which 815 are unidentified."
http://www.nzwargraves.org.nz/cemeteries/el-alamein-war-cemetery
Quite a few (815) men unidentified buried in the allied grave yard, Tate could even have moved here been from the big bridge area where lots of men were said to have fallen in Mosenson's book