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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: hurworth on Tuesday 03 May 16 23:46 BST (UK)
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I'm hoping someone with local knowledge may have information about this family.
Andrew died on 29 Nov 1807.
His will CC20/4/29 only mentions a niece, Janet Black of Anstruther Easter.
I'm wondering whether she is the Janet Black who died in 1834 who was the sister of Captain James Black of the Royal Navy (curiosity will no doubt get the better of me sometime and I will buy some more ScotlandsPeople credits and get her will).
What I am wondering is whether this Black family is related to the Johnstons of Fallside/Rennyhill or the connection is that they were trusted friends. Andrew Black was a witness at the baptism of Henry Johnston in 1770 at Rennyhill and the other witness was Andrew Johnston, merchant of Anstruther Easter.
I received a lot of help on Rootschat with Alexander Black of Gidea Hall last year (see link below) and I haven't worked out whether Alexander Black is related to these Anstruther Easter Blacks or not.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716633.msg5604307#msg5604307
Henry Johnston who was born in 1770 named a son Alexander Black Johnston.
Another association between Johnstons and Blacks (but are they the same Blacks?) is via Henry's sister Ann Jean Johnston who married Neil MacVicar, an Edinburgh merchant (explained in the other thread).
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Henry Johnston who was born in 1770 named a son Alexander Black Johnston.
Hi Hurworth,
The norm usually would be...a middle name which is actually a surname....a good possibility of being the mother's maiden name or grandmother's maiden name on the maternal line if that helps?
Annie
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Hi Hurworth,
The norm usually would be...a middle name which is actually a surname....a good possibility of being the mother's maiden name or grandmother's maiden name on the maternal line if that helps?
Annie
Quite a few of the children were given various family surnames (luckily for me, from a genealogy perspective as they were excellent clues), but I haven't found a Black in any of the maternal lines. I don't think think that Black is a name from Henry's wife's family. Henry's wife was born across the Atlantic, probably in South Carolina, and her father was from Dundee.
They gave another child the middle name Forrester and I'm certain that is after Henry's brother-in-law in Kilrenny rather than the name of an ancestor.
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Hello. James Black, tobacconist in Anstruther, married Helen Hodge in 1764, and they were the parents of Andrew Black (b.1768), merchant and Comptroller of Customs; James Black, b.1775, later a captain in the Royal Navy who served on the HMS Mars at Trafalgar; William Black, who became a rear-admiral in the Navy; and Janet Black, who married master mariner John Watterston. James and William Black never married and have no descendants, but the Watterston line has continued up to the present day, and indeed my wife and I are friendly with a descendant who used to be my wife's boss, and who is my 5th cousin.
I'm not aware of any relationship to the Johnstons of Rennyhill, but I wouldn't rule it out.
Harry
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Thanks Harry.
I was hoping this might catch your eye as you are a living encyclopaedia of the area.
So, I think therefore that there were two Andrew Blacks who were Comptrollers of Customs - firstly Andrew who witnessed Henry Johnston's baptism at Kilrenny in 1770 and then later on his nephew, son of James Black and Helen Hodge.
There's a couple called James Black and Janet Bennet who baptised an Andrew on 3 June 1735 and a James on 26 Sept 1742 and I just spotted Johnston Black who was baptised 10 Oct 1740 at Anstruther Easter.
More credits purchased - Johnston and John were twins - witnesses were Andrew Johnston and John Drummond (a merchant). It says their father James is a land labourer.
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Wow, a "living encyclopaedia". I suppose that's better than "a national treasure", which would make me feel really old. All I know I have learned from books, especially good old George Gourlay the Anstruther newsagent and bookseller, whose "Anstruther: or Illustrations of Scottish Burgh Life" (1888) mentions the Black headstones in Anstruther Easter (St. Adrian's) churchyard. The oldest one is the headstone of William Black, who was "prćses" or chief magistrate of the town. According to the Scottish Genealogy Society pre-1855 MI of East Fife volume, re Anstruther Easter churchyard, he died in 1637, but Gourlay quotes the Latin inscription in full, which makes his death 20 years later. He was supposedly 56 in 1657. Gourlay would have seen the stone when it was less weathered and illegible than it is today. And Gourlay mentions a John Black on the Anstruther Easter town council in 1662. I assume these Blacks were ancestors of the 18th/19th c. ones. Towns like Anstruther were run for generations by the same little self-perpetuating cliques.
Stephanie Stevenson's "Anstruther. A History" (John Donald, 1989) was specifically written as an updating of Gourlay's book and she also mentions the Black family. On pages 130-131 she tells us about the records of the Sound Tolls paid at Elsinore in Denmark by vessels sailing to Danzig and Königsberg in the eastern Baltic and "Among the shipmasters were Alexander Black and William Black [of Anstruther] (he was a commissioner to the Convention (of Royal Burghs) in 1597, 1601 and 1603 and just over sixty years later other Alexander and William Blacks were commissioners for the burgh)."
Stephanie also mentions the Johnstons, builders of Johnston Lodge in Anstruther, a historic house near the harbour in part of which she lived when writing the book. I'm not actually sure whether the Johnstons of Pittowie were identical with the Johnstons of Rennyhill in Kilrenny. Further research required.
Harry
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The other witness at Henry Johnston's baptism was Andrew Johnston, merchant of Anstruther Easter. Perhaps he's from the Pittowie family.
Henry didn't have witnesses from out of town at his baptism, whereas some of his older siblngs did. I recently posted details of the baptism of his older sister Isabella and the witnesses were a Bethune from Fingask and George Clephane from Carslogie. A baptism in Anstruther Easter would have been the perfect excuse for a boys' weekend.
The coexistence of two Andrew Johnstons in the same area has been confusing. I have a hunch that the Rennyhill Andrews were more colourful for a generation or two.
The John Drummond who was a witness for the Black twins in 1741 was also the witness at the baptism of Jean Johnston, daughter of James Johnston, maltster, and Elspeth Balfour. Is it possible that James was related to Andrew Johnston?
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I just noticed this on the Friends of Dundee City archives.
http://www.fdca.org.uk/Admiraly_Records6.html
AC9/1659 Johnstone v Davidson - 1749
Andrew Johntston merchant of Anstruther, pursues John Davidson merchant of Eyemouth, et al, for freights owing from a voyage of the 'Rachel' of Dundee, master Peter Douglas shipmaster of St Andrews, from Hamburg to Leith
4 Items
Precept
Defences
Ladings
Assignation
People
Cha Johnston druggist Edr
Wm Reid mcht Edr
Ja Begbie mcht N Berwick
I wonder whether twenty years of age would be too young for the Andrew Johnstone born 1729 to be involved in business at this level.
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I don't think so, you had to grow up more quickly in those days and start earning your living.
Harry
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Hi Harry,
A very early reference (1637) to William Black, burgess of Anstruther
https://pacific.st-andrews.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=%28RefNo==%27ms36220%2F731%27%29
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Thanks. It's good that so much archive material in St. Andrews University library is now available online.
All the towns in the East Neuk had families called Black and it's easy to get them confused. I had an ancestor called Janet Black who was born in Carnbee parish according to the censuses, but her forebears there would have been labourers or miners.
Harry
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Stephanie Stevenson's "Anstruther. A History" (John Donald, 1989) was specifically written as an updating of Gourlay's book and she also mentions the Black family. On pages 130-131 she tells us about the records of the Sound Tolls paid at Elsinore in Denmark by vessels sailing to Danzig and Königsberg in the eastern Baltic and "Among the shipmasters were Alexander Black and William Black [of Anstruther] (he was a commissioner to the Convention (of Royal Burghs) in 1597, 1601 and 1603 and just over sixty years later other Alexander and William Blacks were commissioners for the burgh)."
Stephanie also mentions the Johnstons, builders of Johnston Lodge in Anstruther, a historic house near the harbour in part of which she lived when writing the book. I'm not actually sure whether the Johnstons of Pittowie were identical with the Johnstons of Rennyhill in Kilrenny. Further research required.
Harry
Hi Harry,
Do you have a copy Stephanie Stevenson's book? If so I would be grateful if you could find a sentence or two which are on Google snippet view please. It says it is page 196 of the paperback.
I can read
taken into the airfield in 1940], son of Andrew Johnston of Pittowie, merchant and bailie in Anstruther Easter, and nephew of James Johnston, vintner. The family probably came to the town early in the eighteenth century from Leuchars.
I am interested in the rest of the paragraph.
Andrew Johnston and Isobel Taylor have a headstone at Kilrenny graveyard. Their son James (perhaps he was the vintner) was baptised at Carnbee on 23 July 1727 and Andrew (of Rennyhill) was baptised on 28 Nov 1728.
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Sure thing. Stephanie's main interest, she told me on the one occasion we met, was the history of the old houses in Anstruther and the families who had lived in them. On pps. 195-6 of her book she is talking about Johnston Lodge, in the wynd leading down to Shore Street, Anstruther Easter, the house she herself lived in, because by then it had been split into flats.
A woman called Mary Clarkson was married on May 31st 1820 to "Archibald Johnston, younger of Pittowie [a small estate near Crail taken into the airfield in 1940], son of Andrew Johnston of Pittowie, merchant and baillie in Anstruther Easter, and nephew of James Johnston, vintner. The family probably came to the town early in the eighteenth century from Leuchars. Archibald Johnston was Agent for the Bank of Scotland in St Andrews, a wealthy man owning land in the parish of Anstruther Wester, who bought and sold property in the burgh and lent money to house buyers."
Archibald Johnston's sister Rachel Johnston was married in 1821 to the Rev. Robert Wilson from Dunino, who was to be minister of Anstruther Easter for forty-three years.
"Archibald Johnston did not live long to enjoy his new property as he died in 1829 at the age of forty-four. His wife continued to live in St Andrews where she died in 1870 and was buried with her husband and four of their children in the Cathedral burial ground. Their two sons, Andrew and Archibald, died in the same month at the ages of four and one, and two girls died at the ages of 18 and 19. Two other daughters lived to maturity."
Stephanie also tells us that Archibald Johnston's widow sold the Pittowie estate "to her late husband's cousin Captain Alexander Corstorphine in Kingsbarns, late of the East India Company, and in 1852 she sold the villa to George Darsie, tanner, and his wife, Margaret Johnston Walker, probably another cousin. (She was a cousin of Rear Admiral William Black from whom she received a legacy in 1853)."
I hope some of this is of interest.
Harry
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Thank you Harry. More to think about,
One other thing. The female servant tax in 1787 for Anstruther Easter (E326/6/11/17) were assessed by Charles Robb and the assessment given to James Johnston, Collector for the Borough. I hadn't noticed this James Johnston before.
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See my last post, where I quoted Stephanie Stevenson on Archibald Johnston the younger of Pittowie, son of Andrew Johnston of Pittowie and nephew of James Johnston, vintner. On page 173 of her book Stephanie mentions James Johnston, "vintner and town treasurer and founder member of a local whaling company".
You ought to be able to buy a copy of the book from Birlinn, who took over John Donald, or get it from Amazon.
Harry
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Thanks Harry. If you think it is worth having a copy then it must be.
http://archives.law.virginia.edu/scos/node/22316
This record (1767) mentions FOUR Andrew Johnstons who were alive at the same time!
Andrew of Pitkerie, married Isobel Taylor
Andrew of Rennyhill, his son, married Euphame Clephane
Andrew a merchant (the Pittowie line?)
Andrew a sailor.
This states that in 1789 James Johnston had been treasurer for almost 50 years. Maybe it's been rounded up a bit to 50 years.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=BRpDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA955&lpg=PA955&dq=james+johnston+treasurer+anstruther&source=bl&ots=N25u8OShzG&sig=GN6t-lSWsOc8gc5Xp6lp0Tzve6c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3k_SuiMXSAhWJTrwKHXWRDEUQ6AEILTAI#v=onepage&q=james%20johnston%20treasurer%20anstruther&f=false
The record also mentions James the vintner, and a David, and it mentions Andrew Black.