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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: alison300 on Tuesday 10 May 16 20:59 BST (UK)
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My mum's sister died in 1926 and is buried at Lorne Road Cemetery, Brentwood. When I asked for the plot details I was told that there were 4 other burials in the same plot:
Lottie Jarvis aged 15 days, buried 20.10.1879
Archibald Frank Jarvis aged 2 months, buried 6.12.1879
Percy George Jarvis aged 3 weeks, buried 21.11.1882
Victor Jarvis aged 3 weeks, buried 21.11.1882
These children are not related to my family but I would like to know about them. I've searched Ancestry and FreeBMD and found their births (looks like 2 sets of twins) but can't find any obvious parents on the various census. Can anyone help?
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The children wouldn't be on any census as sadly they didn't live through one :(
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Perhaps someone with a subscription to Seax can look for a baptism of these children, mine just expired I'm afraid.
Otherwise get a birth certificate perhaps the mothers maiden name will give you a clue.
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Don't dispense the idea they are not related somehow, in my opinion it is to much of a coincidence, perhaps a purchase of one certificate might help you
Louisa Maud
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Births are registered in Billericay registration district, I assumed they would be in the Billericay area as at 1881 so I had a look in1881 census, there is one family living in Galleywood , parents James and Ellen but there is not enough gaps in the siblings to prove that these births belong to the family listed in your list
If they are not related in some way I wonder why they are in the same grave
LM
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I've checked billericay, Brentwood, little Warley, great and little burstead, laindon, parish registers with no luck. There are a couple of Jarvis families but the children don't match.
My uncle was buried (toddler drowned in family pond in 1936) in a grave with unrelated people. Apparently it was common to bury children with unrelated people rather than purchase a plot.
However, it would be interesting to find who they were and if the poor parents managed to have surviving children 👨👩👧👦
I'll keep looking.
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This looks a possible family. Junction Road is only a stone's throw from Lorne Road Cemetery.
(have a look on google maps or google earth and you will see Junction Road and Lorne Road are adjacent)
1881
Junction Road, Brentwood
John Jarvis 27 bricklayer bn Hammersmith Middx
Jane R 34 wife bn Brighton Sussex
Millicent 2 bn Bognor Sussex
I'll look and see if there are any other possibles.
(Yes, Brentwood is in Billericay Reg District, but someone being buried in Lorne Rd would be unlikely to have been living anywhere other than Brentwood itself - though much of that area of current Brentwood would have been South Weald parish or Warley parish. I would think Junction Rd was South Weald parish, which covers that area. Even though nowadays Brentwood is the main town and South Weald is just a small village to the north east, actually the parish of Brentwood is miniscule, whereas the parish of South Weald stretches right down encompassing large parts of what one would currently call Brentwood.)
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Cant see any other likely candidates in 1881 census
Sadly Jane Rosa Jarvis dies in Jul/Aug/Sep 1887, Billericay Reg District, age 40.
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JUnction Rd is South Weald parish - so a check on Christenings there might reveal their parents.
1891 - John has remarried
Cottage, Junction Rd, South Weald
John Jarvis 37 bricklayer bn Hammersmith
Ellen 41 bn Mundham Sussex
Millicent M M 12 bn Bognor Sussex
Francis J 9 bn South Weald
Annie Rose 6 bn South Weald
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1901
Junction Road
John Jarvis 47 bricklayer bn Hammersmith
Ellen 51 bn Sussex Mundham
Millicent is in Finchley as a Domestic help.
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Thank you to everyone who has replied.
I ruled out John Jarvis b Hammersmith and his wife because on the 1911 census they say that they only had 3 children and that all are still living.
I thought it unusual to have 2 sets of twins born so close together and obviously very sad that they died so young. I didn't even think of SEAX but sounds like i'll have to purchase a birth certificate to find out more. Thanks again Rootschatters.
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By 1911 he is married to Ellen. And the census asks how many children of the current marriage. So , Ellen had 3 children during her marriage to John.
Or , just maybe, she included Millicent to make up the three!
The twins were born when he was married to Jane Rosa Trigg , and she was dead well before 1911, so her children would not be counted.
So I don't think John and Jane can be ruled out as parents.
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I can't find any Jarvis's baptised in South Weald parish. Nor could I find their burials. I did find a James aged 73 in 1878 and a Mary aged 75 in 1880 buried at South Weald.
On google maps, there are a lot of other denomination churches in and around the area? Maybe they were baptised in one of those?
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Thanks lizdb and nannyj - I thought this would be easy!
Just a thought, I've just found 4 more Jarvis children in Brentwood District School/Shoreditch Industrial School so maybe they are related somehow to the babies in the cemetery. Was this also a workhouse?
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A lot of the burials for that time at south Weald were from the asylum?
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Yes, the asylum (later Warley Mental Hospital, now a housing estate!) is in South Weald parish, despite being only the other side of the road from Christ Church, Warley! I had an ancestor in the asylum and it took me ages to find his burial, but eventually I studied the parish boundary map and all became clear that this area was actually in South Weald parish, although a long way from the village centre and parish church of South Weald.
But these babies are buried in Lorne Road Cemetery, not South Weald Church yard. If I remember rightly there are separate burial records for Lorne Road cemetery. The run-of-the-mill parish records for South Weald are for the Churchyard, at South Weald Parish Church (some miles away from Junction Road and Lorne Road).
There is a Methodist Church on Warley Hill (both Junction Rd and Lorne Road turn off Warley Hill) and a Baptist Church further up, though I know the Baptist Church would not have been there in 1881, as it started in 1884 and then it was some years after that that it moved to its present building. I do not know the date of the founding of the Methodist Church, but would guess the current building is later than 1881 too.
No - the industrial school was not a workhouse. I too wondered who the children Henry (14), Harriet (7) , KAte (5), and Emily (4)Jarvis were. They were all born Shoreditch, and the Industrial School is the "Shoreditch" Industrial School, it was, I think, for children from the East End.
I cant see them linking immediately to the Jarvis family from Junction Road, who seemed to stay in Junction Road for many a year but previously came from Sussex.
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Aha - according to this, Lorne Road was the cemetery fro Christ Church Warley
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=1972385
So that must be where to look for christenings/burials.
It would have been their nearest church geographically (being just a little further down Warley Hill, and actually opposite the lunatic asylum, which is also actually in South Weald parish!), though not their actual Parish Church. I would imagine lots of people from that area worshipped at Christ Church rather than at South Weald, just for convenience.
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You may find this useful - you can see how South Weald parish swoops right down and round the tiny little Brentwood parish!
https://www.esfh.org.uk/map3.php
The boundary of the very far bottom right of South Weald where it meets the odd bit sticking out of the top of Great Warley parish is the road called Warley Hill. Christ Church, Warley is on the right hand side. Junction Road and Lorne Road go off the left. South Weald Parish church however is in the north of South Weald parish, some miles away.
The original parish church of Great Warley was St Mary's. I think Christ Church (by Lorne Rd cemetery) was some sort of daughter church within the same parish. Don't know when it started - I'll see if I can find out to see if it was before or after 1881ish
Modified to add: Yes. Was built 1853 See:
https://christchurchwarley.wordpress.com/about-us/history/
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Hi Liz. I'd already checked great warley. No baptisms there for any Jarvis children during that period 😞
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wow this amazing - I don't know what to say but thank you all very much. i'll have to print this information off and study it over the weekend. it's such a puzzle i'll have to order one of the birth or death certificates to get to the bottom of this. Thank you! :)
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Will keep looking in the meantime, but please post what you find out as it's all really intriguing.
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Hi Liz. I'd already checked great warley. No baptisms there for any Jarvis children during that period 😞
St Mary's? Or Christ Church? It would be Christ Church. Or, if I remember rightly, there is some sort of separate record for Lorne Road Cemetery. It is some years since I was going through the all (this was in person at Essex Record Office) so my memory may have gone hazy. Not sure how it all looks since being available on SEAX - not sure how you would get to Lorne Road Cemetery. Don't have a subscription so cant check!
Yes, Alison, do keep us updated. It is looking very much as if the babies might not have been christened, or at least not in the C of E Church. There is also a Catholic church on Warley Hill, hadn't thought about that before, so that is another possible as well as the possibility they may have been non conformist, or that they may not have hed the babies christened at all.
I still think, from the 1881 census, that John and Jane are the most likely candidates for the parents. But that is very thin "evidence", well not evidence at all, just that from that census they appear as the only likely candidates, being of child bearing age and living almost next door to Lorne Road cemetery.
What I am trying to get my heads round is the fact that your relation was buried with these babaies so much later. It was not a case of the babies being popped into a grave that was alreasdy in existence. They were there first, so the question to me is not so much 'why were the babies put into your rellies grave', but more 'why was your rellie put into a grave that was already used by these babies'?
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Hi Liz, it was both that I checked.
I agree about the babies being in first. Strange. Can't remember which any round it as with my uncle. Two sets of babies too and Two sets of twins so close together. Would be nice to find the parents just to confirm that they did actually have surviving children. Sad.
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Checked all of the billericay registration district baptisms with no luck.
Looks like birth certificate might be only way of knowing 🤔
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Thanks Liz and nannyj - I spoke to my mum about this today and she was very surprised that her sister was buried in an existing plot; we are going to try and find the plot in a couple of weeks time as she hasn't been there since 1952! I will order a certificate this week and let you know the outcome as I'm keen to know who the parents of these two sets of twins were. Thanks very much for all the help and local knowledge.
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For anyone who is still looking at my posts, I wanted to update you:
I purchased the birth cert. for Lottie who was born 12.15am on 3 Oct 1879 at South Weald. Her parents were Jane Rose Jarvis (nee Tribe) & John Jarvis, a bricklayer. There is an address but I can't decipher it (doesn't look like Junction Road though). Anyway, one puzzle solved! Thanks everyone.
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Hi
If you can scan the portion of the cert with the address, I'll have a look - being local I might be able to work out their address when Lottie was born.