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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: ww1614 on Sunday 15 May 16 18:39 BST (UK)
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My great-great-great grandfather Samuel Dunne Kennedy was born in Co. Londonderry, probably near Culnamen/Moneydig/Garvagh, in 1844 to John Kennedy and Margaret (Pegey) Jane Banford (Bamford?). His family was Presbyterian and were members of the First Presbyterian Church at Garvagh.
I am curious about his middle name. I cannot seem to find any likely Dunne families in the area, much less in the family history.
Was it unusual for Presbyterians at the time to use random middle names for their children? Or use the middle name to honor some sort of non-family member? If I am correct in my research, then John Kennedy had a brother named Samuel, and that is why he likely named his son Samuel. But the Dunne part is strange, and family lore cannot explain the provenance of the name.
Any ideas/thoughts?
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I took a quick look in my files and can't see any trace of a baptism in 1st Garvagh Presbyterian Church for a Samuel Kennedy with father John around 1844. There were a few Dunns in the area but none that I can connect to your family.
Bamford is a name more commonly found around Kilrea and across the Bann into Co. Antrim. From what I've seen online so far there's no indication that Samuel Kennedy's middle name was Dunne (he was called Samuel Sr. and son was Samuel Dunne Kennedy, Jr.).
Why do you think they belonged to 1st Garvagh and came from Moneydig area?
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I know the Kennedys were Presbyterian "Northies," self-identified as such in family lore.
There is a marriage certificate for John Kennedy and Margaret/Pegey Jane Bamford at First Garvagh on 4 Mar 1839 via RootsIreland.ie. There was a Bamford family in Lisheegan townland in Finvoy. Culnamen seems to be less than 10 miles from Lisheegan, even less as the crow flies, though there is a river between the townlands.
If you go here http://www.oocities.org/heartland/ranch/5632/bv/moneydig_mgrs.html you will also find information on visitation to the Kennedy family in Culnamen (Cooleymen, as it's spelled there), listing a family of Kennedys including a Samuel, John and Hugh. My GGGG-GM Margaret Bamford Kennedy was buried in a plot belonging to Hugh B. Kennedy, who I am assuming is her son.
John and Margaret/Pegey had children named John, Samuel, Hugh, Thomas and Elizabeth (leading me to believe Margaret/Pegey's parents were Thomas and Elizabeth).
Perhaps the Kennedys moved from the First Garvagh church to the Moneydig church, which was built later (1830s?). I can't seem to find full records for Moneydig.
Edited to add: the records in Ireland tend to say Bamford; on Margaret's record for the cemetery she was buried in, her name is spelled Banford.
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In Ulster the name is really Bamford but in older records I have seen Bamfort used.
Culnamen seems to be less than 10 miles from Lisheegan, even less as the crow flies, though there is a river between the townlands.
There was a ferry from Vow (Co.Antrim) over to the Co.Derry side.
The 1839 marriage of John Kennedy to Pegey Jane Bamford was in 1st Garvagh but marriages usually take place in the bride's church so the Kennedys may or may not have also belonged. There is at least one other Bamford marriage in that church (John Bamford to Jane Woods in 1824).
John and Margaret/Pegey had children named John, Samuel, Hugh, Thomas and Elizabeth (leading me to believe Margaret/Pegey's parents were Thomas and Elizabeth).
Are the sons' names in order? Naming pattern was 1st son=paternal grandfather, 2nd son=maternal grandfather, 3rd son=father although this was not always followed and in families that did so all sorts of events could throw off the sequence. Unfortunately all those names are commonly used here.
Perhaps the Kennedys moved from the First Garvagh church to the Moneydig church, which was built later (1830s?). I can't seem to find full records for Moneydig.
Unfortunately the earliest records for Moneydig Presbyterian Church don't survive.
If you go here http://www.oocities.org/heartland/ranch/5632/bv/moneydig_mgrs.html you will also find information on visitation to the Kennedy family in Culnamen (Cooleymen, as it's spelled there), listing a family of Kennedys including a Samuel, John and Hugh.
Again, all commonly used names. Unfortunately the records in the link you posted were badly transcribed so there are errors.
Is this the family you mean from the above link? My notes from the gravestone in bold-
Erected to the memory of John Kennedy, late of Coolnamen [Coolnaman], who departed this life on the (unreadable date) May 1822 aged 72 years, (born 1750) also his wife, Martha, who departed this life on the 6th Feb. 1852 [1855?] aged 80 [81?] years
Stone is next to Elizabeth Brown Torrens, daughter of Robert and Jane Brown, wife of Robert B. Torrens
Note- if Martha died in 1852 age 80 then she would have been born c1772- 22 years younger than her husband
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OK, sorry--I had to get through the final week of finals before I could come back to this. :)
It looks like the family goes as follows:
John and Martha Kennedy
to
John Kennedy and Margaret/Pegey Jane Bamford
to
John, Samuel Dunn/e, Hugh B. (Bamford?), Thomas and Elizabeth Kennedy.
Samuel Dunn/e Kennedy is my GGG-GF.
But let's get back to the Dunn/e part.
There was a Jane Dunn who also lived near the River Vow. I'm attaching a map that shows the locations of the Kennedys (west), Bamfords (east) and Jane Dunn (north) (as per Griffith's). However, I can't find out much about her.
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From 141 Carrowreagh Road to Lisheegan Lane (the points you used) is only 7.2 miles via Kilrea instead of 12.1 by the present Bann Bridge (which would not have been at that location in the mid-1800s). However, using Vow Ferry the distance was probably less than 5 miles.
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Exactly where was the Vow ferry?
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The easiest way to explain the location of the Vow Ferry is from the Derry side. If you go on Carrowreagh Road towards the Bann just go straight across the Agivey Road on what's now a lane and then along hedge to the river.
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Basically here, then? (See photo)
I am more convinced that ever that I have found my Kennedys and Bamfords. I still don't know about the Dunns. In the RootsIreland database I located a Thomas Dunn and Jane Dunlop who married in Sep 1845 (my Samuel Dunn(e?) Kennedy was born in 1844). Both Thomas and Jane were Presbyterians, address of Finvoy, parish of First Kilrea. Thomas's occupation was Servant.
Moderator comment: image removed to prevent breach of copyright.
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Taylor & Skinner 1777 maps shows the Vow Ferry clearly. Cross Ferry (pre-Bann Bridge) is also shown.
Co. Antrim side- http://www.failteromhat.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=131&fullsize=1
Co. Derry side- http://www.failteromhat.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=60&fullsize=1
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Dear Aghadowey,
Do you happen to have any additional information regarding Vow Ferry? I live very close to the suspected crossing point on the Antrim side. No information easily available apart from the map you kindly shared.
Tim
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It was not unknown for children in Ireland to be given the name of an outstanding, in the parents view local.
I have a couple that I have found in my family that are not linked by family connections. One was named for the vicar.
I am wondering if there was a Presbyterian clergyman around at the time that was admired called Dunne?