RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: cire on Tuesday 17 May 16 15:56 BST (UK)
-
In my search for a Daniel McDonald and his parents, I have found a McDonald family, with a son Daniel in the 1821 Ireland census. The family lived in Aughanduff, Forkill, Armagh. Daniel's age is right for the person I am searching for, but the head of the house is down as "widow Owen McDonald" aged 52. Am I right in thinking that this means that the mother was the widow of Owen McDonald?
Eric
-
Can you post the link to it so people can look at it?
-
I got the details from the RootsIreland site, looking for Daniel NcDonald born about 1800 in the "census" option.
Eric
-
Interesting. There are no Census returns for Armagh in 1821 on the National Archives site.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1821/
or 1831 or 1841
but others do have it.
Emerald Ancestors
https://www.emeraldancestors.com/news/1821_Census,_Forkhill_Parish,_Co._Armagh/11/
and RootsIreland of course
-
I think it would be her marriage name your lucky the 1821 cencus is only I a few areas I was partly luck it had my kilmore mcbrooms
-
Interesting. There are no Census returns for Armagh in 1821 on the National Archives site.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1821/
or 1831 or 1841
but others do have it.
Emerald Ancestors
https://www.emeraldancestors.com/news/1821_Census,_Forkhill_Parish,_Co._Armagh/11/
and RootsIreland of course
Forkhill Census was only discovered in a box in Armagh after the Census went online....
Don't know if/when the NAI are going to add it.
-
in case its of interest a name approaching the possibility of being very like the right name appears in
1796
Flax Growers of Ireland, 1796 - County Armagh
M'Donnell James Loughgilly Armagh
M'Donnell Patrick Tynan Armagh
M'Donnida Michael Kilmore Armagh
McDonald not found in the 1828
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/forkill-parish
.php#.V0CSLFf0bHh could any of these be possible
McDonnel, Patt. - Townland: Mafoner Year: 1828
McDonnell, Charles - Townland: Aughenduff Year: 1828
McDonnell, Francis - Townland: Aghdanore Year: 1828
McDonnell, James - Townland: Aughenduff Year: 1828
McDonnell, Joseph - Townland: Aughenduff Year: 1828
-
Thanks for the helpful replies and sorry for the long delay in answering ------visitors etc!!!
I made some progress in looking for Daniel & Anne Mcdonald. I have found 8 christenings in Aghagallon register of children of Daniel and Anne. In each case the surname is McDonnell and Anne's surname Odgers obviously caused problems for the parish priest or his clerk. It appears as Ogirs; Adjis; Adyers; Agers and Augers. The register starts in 1829 and we know of 2 children born before that, so 1-0 children found. I can't find the family in what remains of the 1851 census for Aghagallon. I know three went to Australia.
with regard to the "widow" bit in the 1821 census , I noted a similar words somewhere else.
I presume it means either
Widow(er) Owen McDonald or
widow of Owen McDonald ??? Who knows!!!!
thanks again
Eric
-
...
with regard to the "widow" bit in the 1821 census , I noted a similar words somewhere else.
I presume it means either
Widow(er) Owen McDonald or
widow of Owen McDonald ??? Who knows!!!!
It would almost certainly be the widow of Owen McDonald as his name would have just been recorded as Owen McDonald.
-
In my search for a Daniel McDonald and his parents, I have found a McDonald family, with a son Daniel in the 1821 Ireland census. The family lived in Aughanduff, Forkill, Armagh. Daniel's age is right for the person I am searching for, but the head of the house is down as "widow Owen McDonald" aged 52. Am I right in thinking that this means that the mother was the widow of Owen McDonald?
Eric
Hi Eric,
I've traced a few of the descendants of the Owen McDonnell (or McDonald) from Aughanduff in the 1821 Forkhill census. I hadn't seen any mention of what (could have) became of his son Daniel until I saw this post.
The eldest was Patrick (born 1793) who I speculate is most likely the same person mentioned in the 1813-20 Freeholder register. His family had the largest McDonnell estate in Aughanduff. and only one family is mentioned - his being the only family with a named 'Patrick' iirc. Patrick stayed in Aughanduff and his family remained in the townland for generations, well into the period where documentation gets good.
The next Daniel (born 1800) I have no idea what became of. Perhaps he is the Daniel you sought?
The next Anne (born 1801) again, I have no idea what became of.
The final child John (born 1812) much like Patrick stayed in Aughanduff and had a large family.
What lead you to consider this Daniel McDonnell as a potential lead in your search? It's unlikely (but not impossible) this Daniel would pop up in Aghagallon as it's very far away from Aughanduff. So far as I'm aware, people rarely left moved out of their general local communities unless they were emigrating abroad.
Did you find any more information on your search?
-
There's more than one Aghagallon in Ireland.
Aughanduff to Aghagallon, Co. Antrim about 30 miles according to Google Maps.
There is a Mary McDonald, age 60, born Co. Armagh, in Aghagallon D.E.D. in 1901-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Aghagallon/Drumaleet/1002529/
Another Aghagallon in Co. Tyrone, just outside Omagh, which is further away.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/cappagh-east-omagh-portion/aghagallon/
-
There's more than one Aghagallon in Ireland.
Aughanduff to Aghagallon, Co. Antrim about 30 miles according to Google Maps.
...
Another Aghagallon in Co. Tyrone, just outside Omagh, which is further away.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/east-omagh/cappagh-east-omagh-portion/aghagallon/
It may be true that there is more than one Aghagallon, and in modern period it may be easy to travel to any of these locations from Aughanduff. However, it's extremely unlikely (although admittedly not impossible) that the McDonalds in this Antrim Aghagallon (or Tyrone for that matter) are descended from those in Aughanduff.
McDonnell and McDonald are both very common common names throughout Ireland. Take a look at John Grenham's mappings of both as renters in 1864.
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=McDonald
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=McDonnell
Occam's razor (with no evidence to the contrary) would suggest these Aghagallon McDonalds belong to one of the many other branches of that family.
If there were some DNA matches to Aughanduff McDonnells alongside historical records linking that DNA descendant to these Aghagallon McDonalds, that could explain a link.
There is a Mary McDonald, age 60, born Co. Armagh, in Aghagallon D.E.D. in 1901-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Aghagallon/Drumaleet/1002529/
That lady is also a widow and as such would not be 'McDonald' by her own name. Her dead husband was most likely from Antrim all things considered.
-
That lady is also a widow and as such would not be 'McDonald' by her own name. Her dead husband was most likely from Antrim all things considered.
There's an equal chance that her husband was also from Armagh. In any case, there are other people in the same DED born in Armagh so such a migration is not impossible.
-
Hello All--
The original hand-written volume containing the 1821 Census is held by PRONI.
I know - I handed it in to them!
-
Hello Hamlets. thank you on behalf of many for lodging the Forkhill Tithe Applotment Book with PRONI Can you tell us briefly how that came about ?
I read somewhere PRONI holds the tithe books for all but 31 of the 273 NI parishes, so how you acquired yours is of interest. some NI civil parishes are marked by the Irish Genealogy Hub as not surveyed, or possibly included in neighbouring parishes. PRONI is currently doing some updating that will result hopefully more online availability from them including a surname index.
From the Irish Genealogy Hub index coverage of the 6 counties civil parish indexs for Forkhill, I found two similar surname entries in Forkhill not listed in the 1821 census so the thanks is sincere.
You have raised the question are other original TABS still in private hands? Any thoughts?
Good luck